Theresa may is merciless

[Obie]

I will repeat this again, if i haven't already done so, that Mr Muaza is not a criminal, but a critically ill individual. His mental condition does not cause him to act in a dangerous manner that jeorpodises public safe.

In the UKBA drama show on TV, people who are caught, are released on Temporary admission whiles their documents are been processed. Why should he be treated differently.

Detention is not good for any human who has never committed a crime. I had the opportunity of speaking to Peter Qasim, Australian longest immihration detainee, who was fetained for nearly 8 years. He said that after his experience, he does not believe life will ever be the same for him again.

There are to impediment to this man's release, rather his possible death in detention will bring a lasting shame and stain on UK's reputation overseas.

[Seneca]

Look there are many countries in Africa and where he can legally enter and put this claim but why only England. And if you search on internet then many volunteers during the contention between Ireland and england dead in hunger strike and its not new method and should be ignored systematically. In my previous posts i have copied pasted few links not all because cannot entirely write and write the whole page which even suggest to not to believe such heinous act of starvation. I wish the clock reverse back to 17th or 16th century and this asylum system which people abusing is being regularized and then again clock set normal.

How was it back then and What is normal for you?

Read the UK history as how their government system evolved which now have been abusing rapidly with such so called dramas that encourage others as well means inviting more hurdles even for peaceful inhabitants.

I was expecting enlightenment from you. Anyway the World has move on a bit since then. Human right is the norms now inspired by Winston Churchill for good reasons as world understood after Second world war. Slavery is outlawed, you can not claimed half of the world by planting flags and having bigger guns. We have global village now where interdependence of countries, cultures and societies is totally. And right of world citizens is respected a little bit more.

[UKBA HUNTER]

Look there are many countries in Africa and where he can legally enter and put this claim but why only England. And if you search on internet then many volunteers during the contention between Ireland and england dead in hunger strike and its not new method and should be ignored systematically. In my previous posts i have copied pasted few links not all because cannot entirely write and write the whole page which even suggest to not to believe such heinous act of starvation. I wish the clock reverse back to 17th or 16th century and this asylum system which people abusing is being regularized and then again clock set normal.

How was it back then and What is normal for you?

Read the UK history as how their government system evolved which now have been abusing rapidly with such so called dramas that encourage others as well means inviting more hurdles even for peaceful inhabitants.

I was expecting enlightenment from you. Anyway the World has move on a bit since then. Human right is the norms now inspired by Winston Churchill for good reasons as world understood after Second world war. Slavery is outlawed, you can not claimed half of the world by planting flags and having bigger guns. We have global village now where interdependence of countries, cultures and societies is totally. And right of world citizens is respected a little bit more.

i think the main point you and others cannot understand is that why why why only England for asylum/shelter? Why such type of people do not go where they can legally enter and live means their neighboring countries for lodging such claims. Why only UK?

[Obie]

It is a very interesting question but the answer is a bit complex.

Perhaps you should read about the British Empire, colonialism, slave trade, and fight for independence, like the mau mau uprising, Ghandi in India. There is a deep cultural links. The British empire establishes itself in these colony embezzled its resources, fought against these nations right to independence, and left them home and dry.

These are some of the reason why people come here.

The UK did not have a problem with this, when it benefitted him, but now it is a problem.

Furthermore, I refute the contention that most people come to UK. The UK has less than 2 % of world's refugee, therefore that statement is a bit of distortion of reality, to put it mildly.

[Seneca]

i think the main point you and others cannot understand is that why why why only England for asylum/shelter? Why such type of people do not go where they can legally enter and live means their neighboring countries for lodging such claims. Why only UK?

They do go somewhere else and they do go neighbouring countries as well. Of the 10.4 million refugees under UNHCR mandate between 2005 and 2009, majority were hosted by Pakistan (1,740,711), Iran (1,070,488), Syria (1,054,466), Germany (593,799), Jordan (450,756), Kenya (358,928), Chad (338,495), China (300,989), Vietnam (339,300), Eritrea (209,200) and Serbia (195,600).

USA, Germany, France and Sweden and others all took in more refugees than UK. http://www.sbs.com.au/news/article/2011 ... lum-claims

UK took just under 25,000 for the year ending june 2013 equivalent to 0,27% of population. http://www.unhcr.org.uk/about-us/the-uk-and-asylum.html.

Considering UK historical link with half of the world, it colonial past, language, family, economics, political and cultural connections i think that is not too excessive numbers. Unless of course UK decide that 0.27% is too much and they don't want anybody. Do not confuse other routes like students, entrepreneurs, high skilled migrants, EU citizens with asylum seekers.

[MPH80]

I will repeat this again, if i haven't already done so, that Mr Muaza is not a criminal, but a critically ill individual.

I, personally, believed that being in the UK working without the proper authorisation (which he's admitted doing) was a criminal offence!

Am I wrong about that?

Edit: It'd appear I'm right - it's an offence under section 24(1)(b)(ii) Immigration Act 1971 - Failing to observe a Condition of Leave

http://www.cps.gov.uk/legal/h_to_k/immigration/#fail

As to why temporary release would not be suitable - he could, at any time, during his release, abscond, pure and simple ... and when you see those tv programmes showing them temporarily releasing people - it's always with an acknowledgement from the officer that they wish they could detain them but don't have the space.

E.g. they want to hold them - but don't have the room.

[UKBA HUNTER]

I am leaving this topic as it is and just read below and tell us that should we still believe or suffer anyother abuse. bye.


http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article ... frica.html

http://www.thesun.co.uk/sol/homepage/ne ... nsion.html

http://www.lbhf.gov.uk/Directory/News/M ... _fraud.asp

http://www.croydonadvertiser.co.uk/Croy ... story.html

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/ ... -laws.html

http://squaremilenews.blogspot.co.uk/20 ... fraud.html

http://thelambethwalk.blogspot.co.uk/20 ... nefit.html

http://naijagists.com/two-nigerian-men- ... in-london/

http://www.thurrockgazette.co.uk/news/9 ... fit_fraud/

http://www.gistexpress.com/2011/06/03/n ... fit-fraud/

http://metro.co.uk/2012/09/28/adeola-th ... es-589011/

http://sunday.tribune.com.ng/index.php? ... Itemid=118

http://www.thisdaylive.com/articles/nig ... ms/125570/

[Amber]

How are people expected to be taken seriously when they quote/reference the Daily Mail

[Believe2013]

1. It is a coward practice but slow paced/motion suicide to get sympathy with the hope to succeed before die.
2. All these arrangement must be done within Nigeria with Nigerian funds with the hands of Nigerian authorities.
3. Nigerian government must be sued for what they did and must pay back all those funds incurring on this money/time wasting mission.

Agreed that is looking for sympathy, empathy and understanding.

Is it so odds to seek sympathy, empathy and understand when you down and out from others who are in position to help you?

I don't agreed that he is coward for going on strike, Hunger strike is the last resort used by many people like Gandhi and others to make last stand and to engage attention of authorities when all other avenue has been closed.

He has claimed his two relative have been killed by Boko Haram. He went to school with many of them and they can easily find him anywhere in Nigeria. So for him there is clear and real danger to his life. It is like if you cross Mafia and if they really want to find you and kill you, they will. He might have genuine case.

Suing will not help, talking will. If British Government really want to proceed with removal process, at least they should ask for guarantees that 1)he will be protected from Boko Haram and 2) They will offer him medical Help.
They did that to Abu Hamza and many others potential dangerous people. Why not for innocent person in fear of life and in need of medical help. But in case stop everything until he is better.

Look there are many countries in Africa and where he can legally enter and put this claim but why only England. And if you search on internet then many volunteers during the contention between Ireland and england dead in hunger strike and its not new method and should be ignored systematically. In my previous posts i have copied pasted few links not all because cannot entirely write and write the whole page which even suggest to not to believe such heinous act of starvation. I wish the clock reverse back to 17th or 16th century and this asylum system which people abusing is being regularized and then again clock set normal.

Well judging by your erroneous posts I take it you were not born British or you naturalised into a British Citizen? Why Britain, that's a question you have to ask Mr Muaza himself I'm afraid. For a man to sacrifice his life merely for a visa sounds far fetched hey? Well I am inclined to believe Mr Muaza has made his point and finally getting the attention his case deserved. Judges are not infallible if anything half of them are usually sozzled at hearings puts things into perspective right. regardless of that I believe Mr Muaza will get justice perhaps posthumously (I hope not) but it will be delivered. Have you ever been at the mercy of the Home Office my friend? Be careful what you wish for turning back the clocks so we can have the age of imperialism all over again _ no thanks. We are still waiting for an apology from the so called British Empire for their past atrocities they committed (and still continue to commit)

[Obie]

I will repeat this again, if i haven't already done so, that Mr Muaza is not a criminal, but a critically ill individual.

I, personally, believed that being in the UK working without the proper authorisation (which he's admitted doing) was a criminal offence!

Am I wrong about that?

Edit: It'd appear I'm right - it's an offence under section 24(1)(b)(ii) Immigration Act 1971 - Failing to observe a Condition of Leave

http://www.cps.gov.uk/legal/h_to_k/immigration/#fail

As to why temporary release would not be suitable - he could, at any time, during his release, abscond, pure and simple ... and when you see those tv programmes showing them temporarily releasing people - it's always with an acknowledgement from the officer that they wish they could detain them but don't have the space.

E.g. they want to hold them - but don't have the room.

I draw you attention that Mr Muaza has not been tried and convicted of these offenses you are alleging he committed, and it is wrong to accuse him of being a criminal on this forum.

In any event, the purpose of administrative detention is not to punish any of these your percieved breaches.

I will also add that, it is rather more acceptable to me, that he worked to provide his living, and probably for his least fortunate relatives back home, than to rob a bank, or to put it mildly obtain second homes allowance, for non existences home, a more serious crime than that of Mr Muaza.

[MPH80]

I thought you might bring that up Obie.

He has stated what he did to the Guardian reporters. And under The Police and Criminal Evidence Act 1984 - that's sufficient as a confession:

“confession”, includes any statement wholly or partly adverse to the person who made it, whether made to a person in authority or not and whether made in words or otherwise;

So he is a criminal - and that's the only point I intended to make since you claimed he wasn't. And you're right - administrative detention isn't the punishment - it's punishable by up to 6 months in jail per offence. Since he's committed two - that's potentially a year in jail. Shall we put him through the courts instead?

But once again - you've made an assumptive statement:

that he worked to provide his living, and probably for his least fortunate relatives back home

We have no indication what he did with his money. He could have spent it all on drugs for all we know! So why mention it? There is no point - other than to try to elicit emotion on this point.

I do not want this man's suffering to continue - but our point of difference here is whether or not an exception should be made and I'm firmly on the side of no.

He's chosen to starve himself, and according to the judges, chosen to refuse treatment.

That's his choice and I respect him enough to let him make it.

It doesn't suddenly mean the laws of our land should be ignored.

[MPH80]

or to put it mildly obtain second homes allowance, for non existences home, a more serious crime than that of Mr Muaza.

this is a separate point - but I'd appreciate you pointing to where someone has been even accused of this act.

The list of the expenses scandal that Wikipedia holds has a lot of references to flipping and some couples who claimed the 'other' house was the second home, but in all cases the property appears to have existed:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_ex ... es_scandal

[Wanderer]

I wonder what the consensus of opinion would have been if Mr Muaza had elected to starve himself in Nigeria before fleeing, saying he wanted refugee status in the UK or he will die. Would the UKBA be heartless then for doing nothing? Or invite him over?

The only difference is he managed to set foot in the UK and now it's hand-wringing time and the UKBA is to blame for the whole thing....

I'm no fan of the UKBA but they cannot be held responsible for every disaffected soul in the World..

[MPH80]

I wonder what the consensus of opinion would have been if Mr Muaza had elected to starve himself in Nigeria before fleeing, saying he wanted refugee status in the UK or he will die. Would the UKBA be heartless then for doing nothing? Or invite him over?

The only difference is he managed to set foot in the UK and now it's hand-wringing time and the UKBA is to blame for the whole thing....

I'm no fan of the UKBA but they cannot be held responsible for every disaffected soul in the World..

That is probably the best question that's been asked on this thread.

[Obie]

It is interesting, that added to your many hidden talents, is the ability to pre-judge my response to your assertion. It begs the question then, what is the point of making it. I must say that I am full of admiration of your psychic ability.

I believe many of us have done things in our life, that may be considered criminal if we were caught, tried and prosecuted. Mr Mauza did not face any charge or prosecution. Acceptance of working whiles undocumented, is hardly the crime of the century, compared to the horror our government and service men causes to family and children overseas.

In regards to your further assertion, that he may have used his earning to buy drugs, it suffice to say that such assertion or assumptions are unworthy of the dignity of a response.

The point is yes, the UK government is breaking the law. According to their rules and guidance, Mr Mauza is both unfit to be detained in a detention facility and unfit to fly. The cosequence of this, is that both of these action is not to be carried against him.

I have always thought that the above fact is not an issue of contention.

We are not dealing with a case of Nigeria, but the UK, a supposedly civilised western nation.

[ban.s]

I personally don’t agree with some of the views and arguments posted in this thread but does my personal view matter here? I don’t know what we are trying to achieve by proving individual’s view point. Argument, counter argument will probably not lead us anywhere.

On a separately note, people in the country need proper informed debate (not scaremongering) on subjects – immigration, welfare, Scottish referendum, EU – just to name a few. However in a politically correct society and voter interest driven environment it’s difficult to have a candid debate without being labelled as ‘stereotype’, ‘dearly beloved’ etc. In today’s complex geo political world proper balance between rights, liberty, security, national interest is not an easy job. World has become much more open, accessible and interlinked today but at the same time borders and immigration rules are getting stringent. Should we act on the basis of ‘interests of many outweighs the needs of few or one’? In such case how do we safeguard the interests and concerns of those minorities?
(back to day job now…)

[MPH80]

It is interesting, that added to your many hidden talents, is the ability to pre-judge my response to your assertion. It begs the question then, what is the point of making it. I must say that I am full of admiration of your psychic ability.

Why thank you. The point of making it was to counter an argument you put forward. It's generally what you do in a discussion.

I believe many of us have done things in our life, that may be considered criminal if we were caught, tried and prosecuted. Mr Mauza did not face any charge or prosecution. Acceptance of working whiles undocumented, is hardly the crime of the century, compared to the horror our government and service men causes to family and children overseas.

Ah - so we're in to judging severity of crime. The severity of any crime is not for you or me to judge but to allow our legal processes to take place. It is also not worthy of you to take two completely separate issues and try to conflate them together.

In regards to your further assertion, that he may have used his earning to buy drugs, it suffice to say that such assertion or assumptions are unworthy of the dignity of a response.

I agree - in the same way asserting that he probably sent his money home to his family. This was the point of that statement.

The point is yes, the UK government is breaking the law. According to their rules and guidance, Mr Mauza is both unfit to be detained in a detention facility and unfit to fly. The cosequence of this, is that both of these action is not to be carried against him.

Edit number 2: having re-read all the articles - it's clear the court of appeal refused to release him.

So - back to the something similar to the original version of this post:

Obie - apparently the judges disagree with you. We have a good number of checks and balances in our legal process and our governmental process. In this case - this man has been in front of not one, but three separate judges, requesting release. Each one has turned him down.

In the first case - and it's the only judgement I have to go on - it's because it was decided he had sufficient mental capacity to understand his actions and that it was HIS choice to refuse treatment.

The government has shown willing to treat him, but this man is refusing it. His choice.

I'm not sure why the choice an individual made should mean we ignore our legal processes.

And if the extension of this argument (since I'm apparently psychic) is that we should show compassion as he's near death - why is he the exception to the other 17 on hunger strike?

M.

[MPH80]

Ignore what was in this post - I'm getting article blind.

(To explain - I misread a BBC article to believe the court of appeal had ordered his release - I then got confused reading other articles and finally realised my mistake).

[Obie]

E-Petition for Ifa Muaza. I implore all well wishers to sign it.

We can all as individual force our government to act lawfully, and release Mr Muaza into hospital. He has lost his sight already and section of his organs is believe to have broken down or malfunctioning. Today it is Muaza, who knows who it will be tomorrow.

We owe it to the human race and humanity to put pressure on the British Government. The more people that sign, the more pressure will be on this government to act.

It will be nice for Many British citizens to sign.

People , when posting and making queries about your immigration matters or that of your family remember this individual.
We cannot afford to have the 21 death in detention. Mauza should not have to make the choice that Mauel Bravo had to make to protect his young son.
You are assured it is a good cause.

Perhaps we can go a step further and work towards the closure of these prison facilities.

[Seneca]

E-Petition for Ifa Muaza. I implore all well wishers to sign it.

We can all as individual force our government to act lawfully, and release Mr Muaza into hospital. He has lost his sight already and section of his organs is believe to have broken down or malfunctioning. Today it is Muaza, who knows who it will be tomorrow.

We owe it to the human race and humanity to put pressure on the British Government. The more people that sign, the more pressure will be on this government to act.

It will be nice for Many British citizens to sign.

People , when posting and making queries about your immigration matters or that of your family remember this individual.
We cannot afford to have the 21 death in detention. Mauza should not have to make the choice that Mauel Bravo had to make to protect his young son.
You are assured it is a good cause.

Perhaps we can go a step further and work towards the closure of these prison facilities.

Sign it. Thank you Obie for putting this petition here. Blessings.

[MPH80]

Apparently he's eating and drinking:

http://www.parliament.uk/business/publi ... wn/72/#c72

Lord Taylor of Holbeach:
My Lords, it may help the House if I update noble Lords on the current situation concerning Mr Muazu. The welfare of detainees is our highest priority. While refusing food and fluids, Mr Muazu was continually offered medical treatment, including patient care at hospital, which, until recently, he continually refused. Mr Muazu is regularly monitored. The latest assessment—I had a report this morning—shows that he is eating and drinking well and is mobile, and that he continues to be fit to fly.

[Obie]

Great Seneca

[vinny]

Lord Taylor of Holbeach:
My Lords, Mr Muazu’s flight to Nigeria on Friday returned to the UK for operational reasons which were not connected to his health or conduct. I assure noble Lords that a member of the Nigerian high commission was on that flight.

It would be interesting to know what the "operational reasons" were!

[UKBA HUNTER]

Thanks MPH80 for this good link and at least he started now eating and drinking.
But how a person can live without food for 3 months because average person can live without food 4 to 6 weeks and without water no even 1 week.

You Can Live 4 to 6 Weeks Without Food
Most doctors and nutritionist state that the average person can live about 4 to 6 weeks without food, but a week is a miracle without water.

http://www.professorshouse.com/Health-B ... out-Food-/

[MPH80]

Lord Taylor of Holbeach:
My Lords, Mr Muazu’s flight to Nigeria on Friday returned to the UK for operational reasons which were not connected to his health or conduct. I assure noble Lords that a member of the Nigerian high commission was on that flight.

It would be interesting to know what the "operational reasons" were!

Oh indeed - it's also interesting to note the presence of someone from the Nigerian High Commission! So it sounds like they had it reasonably organised.

You have to wonder what the problem was! Who didn't do their job?