Do we need a visa?

[Keldin]

Not strictly an immigration problem but we can't find anywhere better suited to ask and the UK section of the board has been very helpfult to me (just got me UK citizenship last week). Apologies if this is not appropriate.

My GF came to the UK 6+ years ago on a South African passport on a visa to work (ancestral visa).
She applied for a US tourist visa to accompany me on a trip 5+ years ago to New York and didn't get it as she couldn't show enough ties to the UK (she was working part time)
She has since obtained Irish citizenship and passport 4 years ago which would mean she's part of the visa waiver program and could just go to the US except that part of the program says that even if you have an Irish passport you must apply for for a visa 'if you've ever been refused entry to the US'
Is refusing to give a visa the same as refusing entry? Even on the US visa application its 2 very different sections one saying have you ever been refused a visa and the other saying have you ever been refused entry (the latter being the more serious section such as being convicted etc)

Can anybody give any advice or perhaps point us in the right direction short of just applying for a visa?

Thanks very much
K

[jes2jes]

Not strictly an immigration problem but we can't find anywhere better suited to ask and the UK section of the board has been very helpfult to me (just got me UK citizenship last week). Apologies if this is not appropriate.

My GF came to the UK 6+ years ago on a South African passport on a visa to work (ancestral visa).
She applied for a US tourist visa to accompany me on a trip 5+ years ago to New York and didn't get it as she couldn't show enough ties to the UK (she was working part time)
She has since obtained Irish citizenship and passport 4 years ago which would mean she's part of the visa waiver program and could just go to the US except that part of the program says that even if you have an Irish passport you must apply for for a visa 'if you've ever been refused entry to the US'
Is refusing to give a visa the same as refusing entry? Even on the US visa application its 2 very different sections one saying have you ever been refused a visa and the other saying have you ever been refused entry (the latter being the more serious section such as being convicted etc)

Can anybody give any advice or perhaps point us in the right direction short of just applying for a visa?

Thanks very much
K

As you rightly said, Irish Citizens are qualified under the VWP so she can choose to travel on her Irish Passport.

Having said the above, do not forget the clause about previous visa refusal history you also rightly mentioned. It is up to her really to take the chance to travel.

There are two options here for her:

1. Make a fresh application for a VV with all the supporting documents with the new Irish Passport and if she meets the requirement she would easily be granted the visa.

2. Travel without a visa and carry enough proof against the reasons for refusal last couple of years and she might be fine.

Has her circumstances changed in the last four years? Any children, a permanent job, a house, living with partner, valuable assets, savings, any strong social ties in the UK etc? If these are in line then there is no need in panicking in getting a new VV or travelling on the VWP.

I read a story of someone on this board who travelled on their BC after a previous refusal on a foreign passport and had no issues at all. Well, having said that, her admittance is solely at the discretion of the IO.

[Keldin]

One thing I don't know is if the failure to get a visitor visa the first time even counts as 'refused entry to the US'
If it doesn't then fair enough she can just go under the visa waiver

If it does I don't know how they would even know she's the same person but getting a visa wouldn't be too much of a pain. Except that once you go down that road you will always have to have a visa to go to the US since they would think it odd that you later go in on a visa waiver after having had a visa which then expired.
She'd get one easily enough as she now works permanently and owns a house (well the bank owns it)

It's a bit of an odd situation as anyone on a visa waver passport wouldn't have had a visa request denied since they would never had applied for one. The closest they would have come is landing in the US and being sent back which would definitely have counted as 'refused entry'

Of course there isn't even a helpline to call to ask these sorts of things.

Cheers
K

[Marco 72]

The visa waiver form actually asks

"Have you ever been denied a U.S. visa or entry into the U.S. or had a U.S. visa canceled? If yes; when and where?"

She should answer "yes" to this question and fill in the appropriate details. She can expect to be questioned at the point of entry, and it would be a good idea for her to bring proof of ties to her country of residence, such as mortgage, pay slips, etc (don't show unless asked).

If she wants to avoid the hassle of being deported in case the IO decides not to let her in she can choose to fly from Dublin or Shannon, where you can pre-clear US immigration at departure.

I don't think there's much point in her applying for a tourist visa, which in any case wouldn't guarantee her entry. If you'd like more feedback, you may want to post in the following US immigration forum:

http://britishexpats.com/forum/forumdisplay.php?f=34

[jes2jes]

If it does I don't know how they would even know she's the same person but getting a visa wouldn't be too much of a pain.

Funny! Did she change her date of birth whilst obtaining Irish Nationality? If not, the same data is held under ones records regardless of the number of different passports you have held since the records are under your name as a person and not the passport. The more passports just increases the paper trail, which I believe Uncle Sam loves collecting anyway and any other government as such. To them, the 'more the merrier'.

As advised, the best option is to use the pre-clearance facilities in Dublin, that would put your mind to sleep

[Keldin]

According to the official US visa helpline thingy that my GF found she is entitled to travel visa free but should take documents to show she has stronger ties to the UK than before.
I was planning to take something anyway in case the we get an immigration nazi instead of an immigration official

Just been reading the BBC news story on UK visa refusals. Looks like they all get their training at the same place.

Cheers
K