BRITISH REGISTRATION? SHENGEI VISA?

[Masterixas]

One last question... As soon as I get the BIA letter stating that my son is a british citizen, how long it takes to get his passport? I hope not more than a month... Is there any extra or emergency fee that can be paid to have the passport quicker since I'm afraid of losing our trip date?

[JAJ]

One last question... As soon as I get the BIA letter stating that my son is a british citizen, how long it takes to get his passport? I hope not more than a month... Is there any extra or emergency fee that can be paid to have the passport quicker since I'm afraid of losing our trip date?

http://www.passports.gov.uk has the information you need.

[Masterixas]

I did contact SOLVIT in Portugal regarding the shengei visa for my wife, and they advised me to talk to my embassy before travelling, but to contact them in case I will encounter problems with the border control immigration in Lisbon. Also I have a friend (Portuguese one) who lives here in the UK and who is married to a Brazilian citizen. They went 2 times to portugal already and did not apply for a shengei visa for her. All he said was that they were visiting their home in portugal and that was his wife. The immigration control officer, stamped her passport and granted her entrance with no questions or any problems. So i'm really tempted to go without aplying for a shengei visa, I mean I need to lose 2 days of work, one to apply and one to pick her passport, plus visa fees, plus travelling to London which is quite expensive from where I live, and at the end of the day it seems useless to do it, since my wife has a resident permit from an EEA member state and the Directive is clear regarding this issue, plus my friend's experience, so I'm really thinking in ignoring the shengei visa thing, which makes really happy

[davidm]

Also I have a friend (Portuguese one) who lives here in the UK and who is married to a Brazilian citizen. They went 2 times to portugal already and did not apply for a shengei visa for her. All he said was that they were visiting their home in portugal and that was his wife. The immigration control officer, stamped her passport and granted her entrance with no questions or any problems.

Brazilians don't need a Schengen visa anyway.

So i'm really tempted to go without aplying for a shengei visa, I mean I need to lose 2 days of work, one to apply and one to pick her passport, plus visa fees, plus travelling to London which is quite expensive from where I live, and at the end of the day it seems useless to do it, since my wife has a resident permit from an EEA member state and the Directive is clear regarding this issue, plus my friend's experience, so I'm really thinking in ignoring the shengei visa thing, which makes really happy

I think the visa is free of charge if the applicant is married to an EEA citizen.

[Masterixas]

Are you sure that Brazilians do not need shengei visa? So it means they can enter shengei territory with no visa?

[jjustyy]

For Portugal:

Visas: Required by all except the following for stays of up to 90 days:
(a) nationals referred to in the chart and under passport exemptions above;
(b) nationals of Andorra, Argentina, Bolivia, Brazil, Brunei, Bulgaria, Chile, Costa Rica, Croatia, Cyprus, Czech Republic, El Salvador, Estonia, Guatemala, Honduras, Hong Kong (SAR), Hungary, Iceland, Israel, Korea (Rep), Latvia, Liechtenstein, Lithuania, Macau (SAR), Malaysia, Malta, Mexico, Monaco, New Zealand, Nicaragua, Norway, Panama, Paraguay, Poland, Romania, San Marino, Singapore, Slovak Republic, Slovenia, Switzerland, Uruguay, Vatican City and Venezuela;

[Masterixas]

Ok thanks for the info, I guess we better do it then But I wonder why is this directive law for if we still need to apply for this visa.

[Masterixas]

Finnaly I got an appoitment to make my son's passport. Just in case and to be well prepared and besides all the documentation I will take with me to the passport office, where can i find the information that I had become a permanent resident on 30 april 2006. I would like to print that document from a reliable source in case the officers will argue it, because I have called a couple of times to the passport office and i understood that not all of them are familiar with this or if they are they try to avoid it. So if someone knows where I can go to print this directive I would appreciate so i can back up my words in case the officer will try to make my life hard

Thanks

[Marco 72]

Have you got a letter from the IND/BIA confirming that your son is a British citizen? If so, that's all you need. If not, you will most likely be wasting your time at the Passport Office. Please read the previous messages in this discussion to find out how to obtain such a letter.

[Masterixas]

Well I have sent the request as you guys advised me to the BIA with all supporting evidence, however after 5 weeks waiting, no letter was sent to me. I called them and asked for the status of it, they said that they do not send any letters of this nature but that I will need to register my son with them through naturalization but that takes 6 months. Well after that i decided to call the passport office. I did talk to a lady. She asked me if I was a british citizen I said no, but that I was a permanent resident. She asked if i hold a stamp in my passport if the child was born after my PR and if I was married to my wife. I replied that I didn't had the stamp but that I still a PR since 30 apr. 2006 because of such law. I also said that yes my son was born after my PR and I was legaaly married to my wife. She then said "ok do you have documentation to proof that you are here for 5 years?" I said well i do have a letter from the tax office showing all my taxes paid, of which she replied it's ok then. So she never said a thing about getting a letter or any type of registration from the IND/BIA so i assume it can be done in this way being also that my only way of saving my holidays , so my last shot and I will go for it.

Anyway I will keep you guys informed of what happened at the pasport office, but please if you can direct me for a page where I can print the 30 apr 2006 thing I would appreciate it. Thanks.

[JAJ]

Well I have sent the request as you guys advised me to the BIA with all supporting evidence, however after 5 weeks waiting, no letter was sent to me. I called them and asked for the status of it, they said that they do not send any letters of this nature but that I will need to register my son with them through naturalization but that takes 6 months.

What you were told was completely wrong.

http://www.ind.homeoffice.gov.uk/docume ... iew=Binary

This document from the Home Office states (in section 8.6):
f. A child is born in the United Kingdom on 10 May 2006 to a Portuguese mother and an Indian father. Neither parent has been granted ILR but, by the time of the birth, the mother has been here in exercise of her EEA free movement rights for 6 years. The child is a British citizen at birth under s.1(1)(b) BNA 1981.

A child who is already a British citizen cannot be registered or naturalised as a British citizen. Go back to the Home Office and insist that the person answering the phone looks up the Nationality Instructions, or refers you to someone who understands them.

If they refuse to issue such a letter confirming your child's British citizenship, then you should get your Member of Parliament onto the case. See this policy:
http://www.ind.homeoffice.gov.uk/docume ... iew=Binary
and http://www.ind.homeoffice.gov.uk/docume ... iew=Binary

If the Passport Office accept your documentation (and print off the document from the Home Office that explains the law) then the immediate problem is solved, but you should get that letter from the Home Office anyway to reduce the risk of your child facing hassle later in life proving British citizenship.

[Masterixas]

Anyway, I would like to share my experience today at the passport office. I had an appoitment at 3PM. I arrived at 2:30 and was seen straight away. People were very polite and nice I must add. The lady asked me for both passports mine and my wife. She took some time, look on the passport form and said that everything was okay, but that she wanted to see proof that I was in the UK for 5 years.

So i did show to her my Tax letter showing such. She took everything inside and asked me to wait. After 10 minutes of wait she called me again, and said that all is fine, but I will need to provide a letter from my previous employers since I have no pay slips, and a letter from the job center to confirm whether or not I have claimed any benefits for the past 5 years. She gave me a form which I should take to my next appoitment together with these documents. So after the passport office I went straight to job center and got the letter on its way should get it in a week, and tomorrow I will sweep all my old jobs and ask for a confirmation letter.

I just want to say that the officer at the passport office never asked me for IRL stamps, neither for confirmation letter from BIA. So I assume they do know the rules and are really updated with things which is great. So I do believe that in a week I will go again to make my final round at the passport office and take the extra info they've asked. They told me as soon as I give them all the documents and they approve all (which they will after I get what they want) I will get my son's passport in a week time. The fee will be £80. So all going good and it was easier than I expected.

Since my holiday starts on the 15th July in Portugal, I'm confidente that we gonna kick this and make it on time. As for my wife a letter from the Portuguese embassy arrive with an appoitment for a Shengei visa on the 4th of July, so I'm really happy with the pace of things.

Want to thank you guys for the advise, it really helped and I couldn't figure it all out alone. However BIA letter confirming son's right to citizenship is not essential and if one gets all these documents, BIA letter is just waste of time and takes 3 months to get it as I have learnt from my last call.

Will come back again to make my final report after my next visit to the passport office.

[JAJ]

Want to thank you guys for the advise, it really helped and I couldn't figure it all out alone. However BIA letter confirming son's right to citizenship is not essential and if one gets all these documents, BIA letter is just waste of time and takes 3 months to get it as I have learnt from my last call.

The letter was certainly needed in the period immediately after 30 April 2006 when the Passport Office did not know the rules, anecdotally at least.

In order to prevent your child having hassles proving status later in life, you should do the following for your child:

- obtain the letter from the BIA anyway; and
- keep all your child's old British passports in a safe place (ie, don't throw them away); and
- keep evidence of your 5 years residence in the UK in a safe place (again, don't throw it away even many years into the future).

The Passport Office should normally keep your child's details on file, but you should never count on it.

Are you planning now to become naturalised British yourself?

[Masterixas]

In order to prevent your child having hassles proving status later in life

I kinda don't understand the meaning of this statement and I have read it serveral times in different forums... what you guys mean by that? I thought as soon as my son gets British citizenship that will be with him for life. What do you mean by proving status?

Yeah you're probably right about the letter from BIA being needed right after 30 April 2006, but seems like over one year was enough to get them on track

Yeah the letter from BIA will come anyway and my IRL from Home Office will also eventually arrive, and I will indeed keep those documents in a safe place.

keep all your child's old British passports in a safe place (ie, don't throw them away);

That's something new to me... I thought every time a passport needs to be renewed we need to give the old one back. Isn't like that in the UK? Or is a child passport different from an adult's one?

Yeah I'm planning to apply from British citizenship in the near future, but I will leave that for after my holidays, I really need a rest from immigration issues, passports, visas and all sort of this stuff. These last weeks have been to hard on me and stressful, if I just can make this holdays to Portugal on time by sorting my child's passport and my wife's visa, I will be already very happy

[Marco 72]

In order to prevent your child having hassles proving status later in life

I kinda don't understand the meaning of this statement and I have read it serveral times in different forums... what you guys mean by that? I thought as soon as my son gets British citizenship that will be with him for life. What do you mean by proving status?

The problem is that if one day your son loses his British passport, or it gets stolen, he'll be back to square one and will have to prove his citizenship all over again. Also, if he is outside the UK he may be asked to bring additional proof of citizenship even for a straightforward renewal. Some British missions abroad require evidence of citizenship in addition to your passport in order to issue a new one. And I'm ready to bet they will know very little about PR, 30 April 2006, and the like.

Despite what you were told, the IND (which now calls itself BIA) did issue letters confirming British citizenship. See here for someone who received such a letter last September (it did take him over three months to get it, though). If you don't get a reply, you may want to contact BIA again and ask them to forward your request to the Nationalities Enquiries Team, if it still exists.

[Christophe]

Some British missions abroad require evidence of citizenship in addition to your passport in order to issue a new one. And I'm ready to bet they will know very little about PR, 30 April 2006, and the like.

Absolutely - and they're even less likely to know about it if the problem were to arise, say, 30 years hence.

[JAJ]

Some British missions abroad require evidence of citizenship in addition to your passport in order to issue a new one. And I'm ready to bet they will know very little about PR, 30 April 2006, and the like.

Absolutely - and they're even less likely to know about it if the problem were to arise, say, 30 years hence.

Quite. There is certainly some chance that immigration control will be reimposed on those from other EU states in the next 30 years, which will mean that the 30 April 2006 rules will be superseded by something different.

And even if they did still know about the rules, it's not going to be easy to prove that parent lived and worked in the UK from 2002 to 2007 (for example) if a passport application is being made in 2038, unless a special effort has been made to preserve documents.

A Home Office letter will create a permanent record on file which will make it easier if it is ever necessary to prove status all over again. Needless to say, all the evidence proving child's British citizenship plus all British passports issued to the child should also be preserved indefinitely.

[Masterixas]

OK guys my last input in this thread to conclude my experience.
I went again to the passport office and gave them the job center letter and the employers letter. They took all documents somewhere made me wait almost 2 hours and then they came and said that all is fine but I need to provide bank statements from 2003 to 2005.
So I got those and went to the passport office again for the third time

This time they took about 30 minutes came back and told all is fine and made me pay the passport fee. They told me that my son's passport shoud arrive on the 11th July, but actually arrived today

My wife's passport is at the Portuguese consul in London to get the shangei visa and I gonna pick it up this Tuesday... so we are definetely going to holidays the 15th just on time knida tight but we made it

Thank you all for the advises and keep the good job of informing others of the law.