Husbands Spouse Visa Refused

[Yazzy]

ECOs Refusal
In your application, you failed to disclose

1. You entered the UK on 19/02/2008 as a visitor (which you were granted on appeal following a refusal by this office)
2. You were encountered on 22/11/2012 by UKBA Enforcement and were served form IS151A as a person liable to be detained for overstaying your leave which expired on 08/08/2008. You were a person liable to removal having overstayed your granted leave for a period of over four years and were required to leave the UK.

I am satisfied that these facts were material to the application because it gives a clear picture of your immigration history and your previous desire to flout the conditions placed on your Entry Clearance. By overstaying for a period of over four years, you have displayed a history of breaching the immigration rules. This leads me to doubt your intentions on your current application. I therefore refuse your application. I therefore refuse your application under paragraph EC-1.1(C) of Appendix FM of the immigration Rules (S-EC.2.2 (b)


Right my husband came to the UK on a visit visa. He met a girl he wanted to get married to and he applied for permission from the Home office for this marriage. They took his passport. They granted him permission and then the law changed that illegals could no longer marry legally in the UK. This was in 2009. He had overstayed already and his passport was with the Home office. His relationship with the girl broke down.
For the next 2 years he stayed with friends etc and he didn't return to his country. Then we met and got engaged.
We wanted to the right thing so he contacted the home office that he would like to return to his country so he can get married to me.
They gave him his passport at the airport.

Now in the spouse application we put his previous home office reference number so they could check everything they wanted. There was no lying.
We also have proof that he voluntarily left the UK. We have copies of the papers he was issued from the home office when he went to request his passport and it says he is returning on his own expense and he has been granted permission to live legally in the UK until the date he returns to his country.

My court date is 24/02/2014
what are my chances?
Please any advice would be helpful

[Seneca]

He has been denied on para EC-1.1(C) of Appendix FM of the immigration Rules (S-EC.2.2 (b) which state that there has been a failure to disclose material facts in relation to the application

So it would seems to ECO that your husband was economical with the truth and he decide to not to tell the whole truth. The check of his immigration history in UK revealed information which contradict what he has said resulted in refusal.

You say you put reference number but that in itself is not enough if other questions like;- (have ever overstay your visa in UK) were not answered truthful.

He would have been granted if was straight with his answers. Because the guidance state that spouse visa can be granted even if somebody overstayed his visa. But now it is a little bit trick, i wonder on what grounds are you appealing the because the decision was appropriate, proportionate and fair according to the fact presented.

Alternative will be to put new application this time disclosing all relevant facts.

[Yazzy]

So are you saying we will lose the case?


There is no question in the form saying if he overstayed his visa in the UK

We was truthful throughout the application

In the VAF4A Form question
1.11 Do you have home office reference number? We put YES and the reference number
Question 6.1 Have you traveled to the UK in the last 10 years? We put YES for visit visa
Question 6.3 Have you ever been refused a visa/EEA Family permit for any country? We put NO because he's never applied for family permit visa before
Question 6.5 Have you ever been refused, deported, removed or otherwise required to leave any country including the the UK in the last 10 years? We put NO as he voluntarily left He was not removed or deported
Question 6.6 Have you ever voluntarily elected to depart the UK before your served with an immigration and/or other immigration papers? We put NO as he never elected to leave before he was served with papers or an immigration decision . He left so we could get married.
Question 6.8 Have you made an application to the UK Border Agency to remain in the UK in the last 10 years? Yes and we put the date and reference number and what it was for

We told them he had come to the UK and he had made an application to the home office
There was nothing about overstaying

[MPH80]

So what were the answers to questions 6.1 (have you visited the UK and for how long) and 6.6 (have you voluntarily left before papers are served)?

Were those answers completely and 100% accurate?

http://www.ukba.homeoffice.gov.uk/sitec ... /vaf4a.pdf

[Yazzy]

There is no question in the form saying if he overstayed his visa in the UK

We was truthful throughout the application

In the VAF4A Form question
1.11 Do you have home office reference number? We put YES and the reference number
Question 6.1 Have you traveled to the UK in the last 10 years? We put YES for visit visa
Question 6.3 Have you ever been refused a visa/EEA Family permit for any country? We put NO because he's never applied for family permit visa before
Question 6.5 Have you ever been refused, deported, removed or otherwise required to leave any country including the the UK in the last 10 years? We put NO as he voluntarily left He was not removed or deported
Question 6.6 Have you ever voluntarily elected to depart the UK before your served with an immigration and/or other immigration papers? We put NO as he never elected to leave before he was served with papers or an immigration decision . He left so we could get married.
Question 6.8 Have you made an application to the UK Border Agency to remain in the UK in the last 10 years? Yes and we put the date and reference number and what it was for

We told them he had come to the UK and he had made an application to the home office
There was nothing about overstaying

[Seneca]

I am not saying he would lose or win. I am just pointing what kind of obstacles he would likely to come up against looking strictly from neutral point of view. But if what he write down and say was truthful then has strong case and he is likely to win otherwise the opposite is likely to be the outcome.

[MPH80]

So - under 6.1 - did you specify the full duration of his stay in the UK? E.g. from the original visit arrival to the point he left?

And 6.6 should have been yes - he elected to leave the UK having been an overstayer because he was served the IS151A form.

[Yazzy]

No we didnt say the exact duration he stayed for in the UK

Its all our fault
We didnt check the form the solicitors filled in for us
is there any hope for us

[king2be98]

No we didnt say the exact duration he stayed for in the UK

Its all our fault
We didnt check the form the solicitors filled in for us
is there any hope for us

You have two options, appeal and then probably take it to upper tribunal and still find you won't be granted a VISA. Or you consider the option of migrating to whichever country your husband is from. Tbh, I can't see your husband getting a VISA anytime soon.

Unless they're from a western country you'll find it's usually much easier going that way than coming in.

[Yazzy]

So - under 6.1 - did you specify the full duration of his stay in the UK? E.g. from the original visit arrival to the point he left?

And 6.6 should have been yes - he elected to leave the UK having been an overstayer because he was served the IS151A form.

I just checked and he was not served IS15A form
I have proof of all the papers they gave him and he was served IS.96 and IS101 thats it
So the embassy are wrong when they say they gave him IS15A

[Seneca]

There is always a hope. Since you have hearing date put the best possible defence under the circumstances. But the defence should be based on facts, if denied try new application. Consult your legal adviser.

It more likely that you husband was served with removal direction (IS151A) and then wanted to appeal, but then he changed his mind and decided to not to challenge the removal decision and so he was required to sign IS101 form. In the meantime he was given temporary admission (IS96) until the day he left UK. Have a chat with your husband to be absolutely sure of what happened. it will help you to be better prepared.

[Seneca]

To be absolutely sure get your SAR file.

[Yazzy]

There is always a hope. Since you have hearing date put the best possible defence under the circumstances. But the defence should be based on facts, if denied try new application. Consult your legal adviser.

It more likely that you husband was served with removal direction (IS151A) and then wanted to appeal, but then he changed his mind and decided to not to challenge the removal decision and so he was required to sign IS101 form. In the meantime he was given temporary admission (IS96) until the day he left UK. Have a chat with your husband to be absolutely sure of what happened. it will help you to be better prepared.

Thank you for your kind words and advise
No my husband did not appeal and later change his mind. He had booked his flight ticket from September for his return and he showed his ticket to the UKBA that he would like his passport back so he can return in November. He was never given an IS151A form. He was made to sign a 1S101 and that's it. I went with him to the office where he had to sign and he was only made to sign 1 paper and he was given IS.96 that's it.
In his passport there is only a reference number and the date he went to them written by the UKBA.
There is no code

I've decided am gonna submit the IS101 and IS.96 in court and a statement from him and I stating we did not intentionally hide anything. We may have not understood the VAF form question properly but it was not intentional for us to disclose anything. We had given his home office reference number in the VAF form which would have told them he had overstayed. If our intention was to hide things we would never have given his home office reference number in the first place. And we are sorry.

Would this help?

[Seneca]

I am not sure if that will be enough to overturn the decision, but you got to try. If they refuse you this time it might helpful in you next application, as you have try to demonstrate clearly that it was genuine mistake and you were not trying to hide anything. Goodluck.

[Yazzy]

I am not sure if that will be enough to overturn the decision, but you got to try. If they refuse you this time it might helpful in you next application, as you have try to demonstrate clearly that it was genuine mistake and you were not trying to hide anything. Goodluck.

Thanks Seneca please pray for us

just thought i'd share this with you i came across it on the internet

You must not refuse an application when the information the applicant has withheld is not relevant to
your decision or when failure to reveal information is a ... t mistake.
For example:
An applicant has applied for indefinite leave to remain as a spouse.
Your casework checks show that the applicant receives Child Benefit but they have not
declared this on their application form.
The applicant is claiming Child Benefit legally under an exception to their conditions of
leave which state ‘no recourse to public funds
You cannot refuse the applicant because, if they had
disclosed the information, it would be inappropriate to refuse their application

I know its a different scenario but even if i had told them he had overstayed they wouldn't have been able to refuse on those grounds alone because over staying bans are not on spouse visas. And it was an innocent mistake and overstaying has nothing to do with his spouse visa right?

Im just looking for anything to help me

[Seneca]

Yazzy, this scenario is different from yours. You mention before you have a legal adviser, let him earn his money. It might take some time but you will come through in the end.

[Yazzy]

Hi guys thought I'd update you
My court hearing was yesterday

The home office rep did not have copies of our application form so she told the judge she cant say anything but upholds refusal (S-EC.2.2 (b)
Judge asked her why but she couldn't say reasons as she didn't have the actual application form.
My barrister told the Judge the date of my husband entered the UK was written in the form and his previous home office reference number was also written and that he had made an application to the home office in 2010 which would have told them he was an overstayer.
Judge agreed that everything was disclosed but question 71 in the VAF form 'Please provide details of all trips to UK' was left empty. Judge said there is no actual question that asks if he is an overstayer. Judge said it is a 'grey area'. And because Home office had nothing to say he couldn't decide. Because all the information had been given in the application the Judge said except for that 1 question.

Next point in my refusal about my husband being served IS151A Judge said was wrong and should not have been written in the refusal. Something to do with the Singh case how it was used wrongly in the refusal.
The home office rep had to agree to that.
Next point in my refusal was my husband being married to someone else previously. He had applied for a Certificate of approval of marriage which he had been granted but he never married his previous partner. Refusal said he did marry her and my marriage is not genuine.
Judge told the home office rep it is a genuine marriage.
Home office rep said maybe he married someone else rather then the person he had applied for permission to marry from the home office previously.
I had a 'no marriage' letter from the general register office for the judge showing my husband never married.
Judge told the home office rep that it would mean she is calling me a liar and she has no reason to and cant do that.

In the refusal it said the English test provider my husband took his test with is not recognized by the UKBA.
I showed proof it is on the UKBA website as being recognized and as being listed.
Home office rep said how can we sure it was recognized at the time the test was taken?
The approval license number on the test certificate and the license number right now is the same.
Judge didn't say anything but i think we won that aswell.

Next the Home office rep raised questions about my finance. Judge asked her why she is bringing it up when the ECO specifically wrote in the refusal 'N/A' for financial requirements. He said financial requirements had been met and satisfied.
She tried to say i only showed 6 months of rental income and only 6 months of pay. Judge told her to look at the pay slips as they exceed the 18,600 requirement on their own.
She apologized but then said i had not submitted an actual letter from my employer stating my job, my pay etc. i had said a job contract was submitted but that's it. I was not aware anything else needed to be submitted.
Judge said the ECO or the ECM didn't raise that so why is she. They we're satisfied.

That was our hearing.
Can judge refuse me on a point raised after refusal?
Judge didn't ask me any questions
He didn't ask if im still working even after she raised that point.
Any advise? Any opinions please?

[bill6331]

Hi guys thought I'd update you
My court hearing was yesterday

The home office rep did not have copies of our application form so she told the judge she cant say anything but upholds refusal (S-EC.2.2 (b)
Judge asked her why but she couldn't say reasons as she didn't have the actual application form.
My barrister told the Judge the date of my husband entered the UK was written in the form and his previous home office reference number was also written and that he had made an application to the home office in 2010 which would have told them he was an overstayer.
Judge agreed that everything was disclosed but question 71 in the VAF form 'Please provide details of all trips to UK' was left empty. Judge said there is no actual question that asks if he is an overstayer. Judge said it is a 'grey area'. And because Home office had nothing to say he couldn't decide. Because all the information had been given in the application the Judge said except for that 1 question.

Next point in my refusal about my husband being served IS151A Judge said was wrong and should not have been written in the refusal. Something to do with the Singh case how it was used wrongly in the refusal.
The home office rep had to agree to that.
Next point in my refusal was my husband being married to someone else previously. He had applied for a Certificate of approval of marriage which he had been granted but he never married his previous partner. Refusal said he did marry her and my marriage is not genuine.
Judge told the home office rep it is a genuine marriage.
Home office rep said maybe he married someone else rather then the person he had applied for permission to marry from the home office previously.
I had a 'no marriage' letter from the general register office for the judge showing my husband never married.
Judge told the home office rep that it would mean she is calling me a liar and she has no reason to and cant do that.

In the refusal it said the English test provider my husband took his test with is not recognized by the UKBA.
I showed proof it is on the UKBA website as being recognized and as being listed.
Home office rep said how can we sure it was recognized at the time the test was taken?
The approval license number on the test certificate and the license number right now is the same.
Judge didn't say anything but i think we won that aswell.

Next the Home office rep raised questions about my finance. Judge asked her why she is bringing it up when the ECO specifically wrote in the refusal 'N/A' for financial requirements. He said financial requirements had been met and satisfied.
She tried to say i only showed 6 months of rental income and only 6 months of pay. Judge told her to look at the pay slips as they exceed the 18,600 requirement on their own.
She apologized but then said i had not submitted an actual letter from my employer stating my job, my pay etc. i had said a job contract was submitted but that's it. I was not aware anything else needed to be submitted.
Judge said the ECO or the ECM didn't raise that so why is she. They we're satisfied.

That was our hearing.
Can judge refuse me on a point raised after refusal?
Judge didn't ask me any questions
He didn't ask if im still working even after she raised that point.
Any advise? Any opinions please?

Hi did your husband get visa