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US passport holder BUT EU resident VISA holder, work in UK??

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tumbleweed
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US passport holder BUT EU resident VISA holder, work in UK??

Post by tumbleweed » Mon Jul 09, 2007 10:08 pm

Hi everyone,

Thank you so much in advance for reading and your help!

I am a US passport holder BUT a EU (Austria) Resident VISA holder.
My husband was born and raised here.

Everything I research for obtaining a work permit from an EU country to the UK says EU National...

Does this mean as a US passport holder but EU Resident VISA holder, I need to apply for a work permit in the UK?

I am in the entertainment business and would like to go over. So it's not work as in, office work or a specific position. It's in the entertainment world.

For an EU National it says you can live, work and play...

But no matter how much I research, I cannot find a thing about
being a US passport holder but EU Resident VISA holder (versus being
an EU Natl.)

Your input and help is greatly appreciated!

Danke!
Frances

SYH
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Post by SYH » Mon Jul 09, 2007 10:17 pm

Your husband is born where?
If it is the UK, then you can get a spouse visa and then you could work
Otherwise your work visa from another country doesn't permit you to work in the UK

tumbleweed
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Post by tumbleweed » Mon Jul 09, 2007 10:20 pm

Hi,

Thanks for the reply!
See below...
SYH wrote:Your husband is born where?

Austria. He is an EU National... at least I think that is what they
mean by National.. ? Either way, he was born in Austria and I am
his wife. I now hold an EU resident VISA. :)

If it is the UK, then you can get a spouse visa and then you could work
Otherwise your work visa from another country doesn't permit you to work in the UK
It's not a work visa, it's a resident VISA.

Everything I read about says an EU National can live, work and play in the UK without needing a permit ... so I am wondering if that applies to me.

Don't want to have trouble going in.

Danke, danke!
Frances

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Post by SYH » Mon Jul 09, 2007 10:22 pm

No the UK opted out any Eu agreement so it doesnt matter if its resident permit or work permit.
Again your husband's nationality?

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Post by tumbleweed » Mon Jul 09, 2007 10:22 pm

SYH wrote:No the UK opted out any Eu agreement so it doesnt matter if its resident permit or work permit.
Again your husband's nationality?
Austrian.

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Post by SYH » Mon Jul 09, 2007 10:24 pm

I think you can get under EU freedom of movement via your spouse, so you can reside in the UK without too much fuss but I don't know how it applies for working. Someone else will have to chime in on that part.

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Post by tumbleweed » Mon Jul 09, 2007 10:25 pm

SYH wrote:I think you can get under EU freedom of movement via your spouse, so you can reside in the UK without too much fuss but I don't know how it applies for working. Someone else will have to chime in on that part.
Oh thanks.

Actually, I don't want to reside in the UK, only come for a few weeks at a time, every few months or so to work.

I've never heard of EU Freedom on Movement. I will look into that! Danke! Hopefully it applies to a resident VISA holder too....

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Post by SYH » Mon Jul 09, 2007 10:26 pm

NO it doesn't apply to your visa status
it only works for you through your husband as he is EU
You have to look at it this way
Austria gave you a visa, a third country national from a non Eu country to live and work there so it doesn't work elsewhere but in Austria. But your husband who is an EU national is entitled to move his family around the EU without any hindrances, please keep them seperate
Last edited by SYH on Mon Jul 09, 2007 10:27 pm, edited 1 time in total.

tumbleweed
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Post by tumbleweed » Mon Jul 09, 2007 10:27 pm

SYH wrote:NO it doesn't apply to you
it only works for you through your husband as he is EU
Yes, he is EU.

So holding an EU resident VISA does nothing for me in that respect then? :(

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Post by SYH » Mon Jul 09, 2007 10:28 pm

tumbleweed wrote:
SYH wrote:NO it doesn't apply to you
it only works for you through your husband as he is EU
Yes, he is EU.

So holding an EU resident VISA does nothing for me in that respect then? :(
Exactly
unless you have held your visa for 5 years and have become a permanent resident, you have nothing.

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Post by tumbleweed » Mon Jul 09, 2007 10:30 pm

SYH wrote:
tumbleweed wrote:
SYH wrote:NO it doesn't apply to you
it only works for you through your husband as he is EU
Yes, he is EU.

So holding an EU resident VISA does nothing for me in that respect then? :(
Exactly
unless you have held your visa for 5 years and have become a permanent resident, you have nothing.
Ah, thanks.

Well then. I guess I can arrange for a permit. I have had many offers, just didn't want to go through the trouble.

Thanks so much for your quick and useful messages!
Frances

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Post by tumbleweed » Mon Jul 09, 2007 10:34 pm

I just read this so I am a bit confused now...

<<Right to move and right of residence for up to three months

All Union citizens have the right to enter another Member State by virtue of having an identity card or valid passport. Under no circumstances can an entry or exit visa be required. Where the citizens concerned do not have travel documents, the host Member State must afford them every facility in obtaining the requisite documents or having them sent.

Family members who do not have the nationality of a Member State enjoy the same rights as the citizen who they have accompanied. They may be subject to a short-stay visa requirement under Regulation (EC) No 539/2001. Residence permits will be deemed equivalent to short-stay visas.

For stays of less than three months, the only requirement on Union citizens is that they possess a valid identity document or passport. The host Member State may require the persons concerned to register their presence in the country within a reasonable and non-discriminatory period of time.>>

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Post by SYH » Mon Jul 09, 2007 10:37 pm

The UK has business visas or business visit visas which might do the trick for you. You can also incorporate in Austria and do quick jobs in the UK. Depending on how the work is conducted, and thus go around getting a visa but as I don't understand how you might be conducting business it would be hard to tell. You should go to work permit .com and look at the different business visas and see if you can avail themselves of them

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Post by tumbleweed » Mon Jul 09, 2007 11:01 pm

SYH wrote:The UK has business visas or business visit visas which might do the trick for you. You can also incorporate in Austria and do quick jobs in the UK. Depending on how the work is conducted, and thus go around getting a visa but as I don't understand how you might be conducting business it would be hard to tell. You should go to work permit .com and look at the different business visas and see if you can avail themselves of them
Oh thanks!
That's a great idea.

Yes, I can set up a business here no problem. Recommended by our banker actually so he will be happy!

Thanks again,
Frances

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Post by SYH » Mon Jul 09, 2007 11:17 pm

tumbleweed wrote:I just read this so I am a bit confused now...

<<Right to move and right of residence for up to three months

All Union citizens have the right to enter another Member State by virtue of having an identity card or valid passport. Under no circumstances can an entry or exit visa be required. Where the citizens concerned do not have travel documents, the host Member State must afford them every facility in obtaining the requisite documents or having them sent.

Family members who do not have the nationality of a Member State enjoy the same rights as the citizen who they have accompanied. They may be subject to a short-stay visa requirement under Regulation (EC) No 539/2001. Residence permits will be deemed equivalent to short-stay visas.

For stays of less than three months, the only requirement on Union citizens is that they possess a valid identity document or passport. The host Member State may require the persons concerned to register their presence in the country within a reasonable and non-discriminatory period of time.>>
NOT the UK, at least as far as I understand. This is the part I said earlier on that someone else has to explain this aspect of the rules as it is not my forte but there are other posts so you could try to do a search on it yourself.

Otherwise good luck in your business incorporation

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Post by tumbleweed » Mon Jul 09, 2007 11:47 pm

SYH wrote:
tumbleweed wrote:I just read this so I am a bit confused now...

<<Right to move and right of residence for up to three months

All Union citizens have the right to enter another Member State by virtue of having an identity card or valid passport. Under no circumstances can an entry or exit visa be required. Where the citizens concerned do not have travel documents, the host Member State must afford them every facility in obtaining the requisite documents or having them sent.

Family members who do not have the nationality of a Member State enjoy the same rights as the citizen who they have accompanied. They may be subject to a short-stay visa requirement under Regulation (EC) No 539/2001. Residence permits will be deemed equivalent to short-stay visas.

For stays of less than three months, the only requirement on Union citizens is that they possess a valid identity document or passport. The host Member State may require the persons concerned to register their presence in the country within a reasonable and non-discriminatory period of time.>>
NOT the UK, at least as far as I understand. This is the part I said earlier on that someone else has to explain this aspect of the rules as it is not my forte but there are other posts so you could try to do a search on it yourself.

Otherwise good luck in your business incorporation

Oh ok, thanks again.

I'll do proper research ahead of time and see what happens.

Danke!
From Austria,
Frances

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Post by JAJ » Tue Jul 10, 2007 12:47 am

SYH wrote:
tumbleweed wrote:
SYH wrote:NO it doesn't apply to you
it only works for you through your husband as he is EU
Yes, he is EU.

So holding an EU resident VISA does nothing for me in that respect then? :(
Exactly
unless you have held your visa for 5 years and have become a permanent resident, you have nothing.
Even an (Austrian) permanent resident permit would not be enough to freely live in the United Kingdom.

If she became an Austrian citizen this would give her independent free movement rights. However, it seems that she might have to renounce her U.S. citizenship:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Austrian_nationality_law

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Post by tumbleweed » Tue Jul 10, 2007 9:52 am

JAJ wrote:
SYH wrote:
tumbleweed wrote:
SYH wrote:NO it doesn't apply to you
it only works for you through your husband as he is EU
Yes, he is EU.

So holding an EU resident VISA does nothing for me in that respect then? :(
Exactly
unless you have held your visa for 5 years and have become a permanent resident, you have nothing.
Even an (Austrian) permanent resident permit would not be enough to freely live in the United Kingdom.

If she became an Austrian citizen this would give her independent free movement rights. However, it seems that she might have to renounce her U.S. citizenship:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Austrian_nationality_law
Please re-read thread.

I do not want to reside in England. Only fly in now and then, from Austria, to work.

Again, not looking to renounce anything, reside anywhere but Austria. Only work in UK.

Danke!

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Post by try-one » Tue Jul 10, 2007 9:59 am

Hi Tumbleweed,

- If you visit the UK with your husband, you can enter the country on the equivalent of a short stay visa: "Residence permits will be deemed equivalent to short-stay visas"
- That short stay visa is the equivalent to what you have as a US citizen (visit, not work)
- If your husband decides to move permanently to the UK (exercise treaty rights) you can work.
- If you incorporate in austria you can visit the Uk for business purposes, meetings, negotiations, presentations; you can not work here and receive a salary. If working and receiving a salary via a EU incorporated company was allowed, then we wouldn't have work permits and everyone would incorporate and come here to work. I have seen many cases of people in Canada and other countries that have been found out to be earning money while visiting under a business visa and they have been banned from the country and their local employers fined.
- If you want to visit the UK for short periods of time to work, then you may want to try a work permit or the HSMP
-------------------------
Life is a journey, not a destination (S. Tyler)

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Post by SYH » Tue Jul 10, 2007 10:28 am

try-one wrote:Hi Tumbleweed,

- If you visit the UK with your husband, you can enter the country on the equivalent of a short stay visa: "Residence permits will be deemed equivalent to short-stay visas"
- That short stay visa is the equivalent to what you have as a US citizen (visit, not work)
- If your husband decides to move permanently to the UK (exercise treaty rights) you can work.
- If you incorporate in austria you can visit the Uk for business purposes, meetings, negotiations, presentations; you can not work here and receive a salary. If working and receiving a salary via a EU incorporated company was allowed, then we wouldn't have work permits and everyone would incorporate and come here to work. I have seen many cases of people in Canada and other countries that have been found out to be earning money while visiting under a business visa and they have been banned from the country and their local employers fined.
- If you want to visit the UK for short periods of time to work, then you may want to try a work permit or the HSMP
NO NO NO, depending on how she is conducting the business, a business visa or a business visit visa may be appropriate. Of course, she has to be weary of crossing the line but to get an HSMP visa for some quick jobs in the UK could be excessive.
Quote from the workpermit.com site it states
After a quick look, the best visa would be:

If the person you would like to hire is not entitled to work in the UK without a work permit, you have a number of other options:

A Business visit visa – For trips to the UK of up to 6 months, a visit visa can be used where the work to be performed is limited; the official guidelines state that the following may come to the UK as business visitors:

Advisers, consultants, trainers, troubleshooters etc, provided they are employed abroad, either directly or under contract, by the same company (or group of companies) to which the client firm in the United Kingdom belongs. Their involvement must not extend to actual project management or to providing advice or consultancy services direct to clients of the United Kingdom company. Training should be for a specific, "one-off" purpose (for example, training in the use of products manufactured overseas or training specific to the operation of a group of companies of which the United Kingdom firm is a member). The training should not go beyond classroom instruction and should not otherwise be readily available in the UK;
Representatives of computer software companies coming to install, debug or enhance their products.
Representatives of computer software companies coming to be briefed as to the requirements of a United Kingdom customer. HOWEVER if they are to provide a service involving the use of their expertise to make a detailed assessment of a potential customer's requirements this should be regarded as consultancy work for which a work permit is required;

These regulations allow considerable flexibility for an in-house training/roll-out team, and give considerable freedom to employees of such companies as Oracle, SAP, etc. who are rolling out their own products at client sites. As the majority of IT roll-outs are conducted by consultancies who are using products manufactured by a third party, such activities will require a work permit
.

You would have to work around these parameters to fit into the criteria but since I don't understand the entertainment business I am not endeavering

The problem with HSMP, (the other visa have a fit problem too) even though it is highly preferred and recommended, is that every year you have to requalify with a certain amount of income. If you don't plan to make the UK the main source of income, then you would be unlikely to meet the criteria to be get an extension. And plus technically HSMP is for candidates with the intention to settlement, in this instance she has no plans to relocate to the UK.

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Post by Docterror » Tue Jul 10, 2007 2:53 pm

I tend to agree with SYH that a business visa is the right visa to apply for in such a situation. As the EEA family member is not travelling with the OP, the csae has to be dealt with under the UK immigration rules and as there is no intenetion of settling, HSMP does not seem to be the appropriate category.
Jabi

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