Refusals for EEA family permit

Post by **EUsmileWEallsmile** » Sun Jul 22, 2012 10:12 pm

keffers wrote:Do you have any practical examples under EEA Immigration rules where a figure has been established in order to make an assessment that a family would not need to rely on benefits?

The relevant case law for workers is that the employment is genuine and effective.

keffers · Post by **keffers** » Sun Jul 22, 2012 10:54 pm

Jambo wrote:
keffers wrote:Do you have any practical examples under EEA Immigration rules where a figure has been established in order to make an assessment that a family would not need to rely on benefits?
Sure.

Robin Van Persie, a Dutch national lives in London with his wife and 2 children. He works in London and earn £90,000 a week. His family doesn't need to rely on benefits.

As I said, each case is assessed individually. There is no much point of giving examples. If you have a specific concern, you can share it and people can comment.

I did ask where a figure has been established ie in a tribunal or other ruling on which you base your assertion.

keffers · Post by **keffers** » Sun Jul 22, 2012 10:57 pm

EUsmileWEallsmile wrote:
keffers wrote:Do you have any practical examples under EEA Immigration rules where a figure has been established in order to make an assessment that a family would not need to rely on benefits?
The relevant case law for workers is that the employment is genuine and effective.

And the meaning of effective?

The ability to pay rent and food etc?

Post by **EUsmileWEallsmile** » Sun Jul 22, 2012 11:04 pm

keffers wrote: And the meaning of effective?

The ability to pay rent and food etc?

There is jurisprudence on this matter and hence the phrase "genuine and effective". If you are interested, look it up yourself. This has nothing to do with the OP's problem.

If you have questions or doubts about your own situation, why not start a new thread?

keffers · Post by **keffers** » Sun Jul 22, 2012 11:27 pm

Have checked and the phrase 'genuine and effective' has nothing to do with whether money earned is enough to pay one's way without the help of benefits.

The threshold which satisfies the above for the purposes of qualifying as a worker and not a jobseeker is extremely low.

Thanks.

Post by **Obie** » Sun Jul 22, 2012 11:45 pm

Also see Barry

keffers · Post by **keffers** » Mon Jul 23, 2012 12:40 am

Thank you for that. Excellent case law.

mcovet · Post by **mcovet** » Mon Jul 23, 2012 1:20 am

it's very good that judges have their own interpretation of the law, separate from the individuals with their own individual take on immigration, but then again, law and reality are so distinct and sadly impossible to bring closer to each other due to the law being grey and susceptible to different interpretations, dependent on each person's mood on a particular day/views in general etc.

Those judges are sooo kindly liberal, loving this. The local govt tries to limit access to benefits to foreigners and the judges are like, c'mon it's a big country, we can fit many more, this one's alright, nothing wrong with working for 2 weeks at Wimbledon, he's a PROPA worker, innit.

donald_f · Post by **donald_f** » Mon Jul 23, 2012 3:22 pm

My options
1. Reapply and wait for the outcome of the ECO (In India this could take at least 3 months)
2. File an Appeal and again a wait for 2-3 months or more
3. Book a ticket, arrive the UK border and prove to the Immigration Officer my relationship with the EU nationals
http://eumovement.wordpress.com/2010/08 ... to-travel/
How far is this option viable ?
Can someone please advise me on this option.

Post by **Directive/2004/38/EC** » Mon Jul 23, 2012 3:57 pm

Travelling is not an option. The Indian citizens will never make it onto the plane.

Reapplying with a very simple cover letter is the best option.

Post by **Jambo** » Mon Jul 23, 2012 4:15 pm

I agree.

Also why do you say it will take at least 3 months? You manage to recieve decisions for two applications in less than 2 months. A new application should not take longer (on the contrary, I would expect it to be handled with priority due to the mishandling so far).

donald_f · Post by **donald_f** » Mon Jul 23, 2012 4:27 pm

While interacting with VFS staff. they did mention a refusal is very quick, where as a settlement takes about 2-3 months.
I have been tracking this thread
http://www.immigrationboards.com/viewto ... 7e5a6d3c70

Post by **Jambo** » Mon Jul 23, 2012 4:37 pm

donald_f wrote:While interacting with VFS staff. they did mention a refusal is very quick, where as a settlement takes about 2-3 months.
I have been tracking this thread
http://www.immigrationboards.com/viewto ... 7e5a6d3c70

This makes sense as it takes about 2-3 months to print the visa with a magic ink...

Luckily, you don't apply for settlement visa but for EEA Family Permit. See Visa processing times. It is normally dealt within 2-3 weeks (a bit longer in Delhi and Mumbai).

EEA Family Permit should be given priority and issued as soon as possible. That's the law.

donald_f · Post by **donald_f** » Tue Jul 24, 2012 6:19 am

prince1475 wrote:Hello,
I am bit tensed by reading the refusal letter,it's really a unfair decision.
My wife applied for EEA FAMILY PERMIT from India, it's almost 20 working days,still application is under process i am tensed coz ECO may refuse by giving silly reason you never know this ECO'S if they can refuse Mr. Donald application according to wrong EEA Regulation than they can do anything what ever comes to their mind and may be depends on their mood. I know they had refused my friends application giving reason that biodata page of passport has not been submitted actually he have submitted his passport copy that to a certified copy anyway I complained asking them why it's getting delay got a reply from visa casework team saying that it's under process than I replied saying that how long will it take and why so delay as it is a EEA FAMILY PERMIT and according to EUN 02 priority must be given to EEA application but did not get any reply than after two days again I email them still didn't get any reply from them.
As Eusmile saying that to complain to visa manager, how can I get visa manager email ID I search through BHC India website I didn't find any email ID there is one email ID for enquiry of visa there is one more of Consular but it says no visa enquiry please Eusmile if u or anyone have visa manager email ID than please post it.I want to complain to visa manager regarding delay in decision taking. Thanks

By any chance have you come across visa manager email ID

Post by **Jambo** » Tue Jul 24, 2012 8:45 am

donald_f wrote:
prince1475 wrote:Hello,
I am bit tensed by reading the refusal letter,it's really a unfair decision.
My wife applied for EEA FAMILY PERMIT from India, it's almost 20 working days,still application is under process i am tensed coz ECO may refuse by giving silly reason you never know this ECO'S if they can refuse Mr. Donald application according to wrong EEA Regulation than they can do anything what ever comes to their mind and may be depends on their mood. I know they had refused my friends application giving reason that biodata page of passport has not been submitted actually he have submitted his passport copy that to a certified copy anyway I complained asking them why it's getting delay got a reply from visa casework team saying that it's under process than I replied saying that how long will it take and why so delay as it is a EEA FAMILY PERMIT and according to EUN 02 priority must be given to EEA application but did not get any reply than after two days again I email them still didn't get any reply from them.
As Eusmile saying that to complain to visa manager, how can I get visa manager email ID I search through BHC India website I didn't find any email ID there is one email ID for enquiry of visa there is one more of Consular but it says no visa enquiry please Eusmile if u or anyone have visa manager email ID than please post it.I want to complain to visa manager regarding delay in decision taking. Thanks

By any chance have you come across visa manager email ID

See my response - here. Address the email to the Operations Manager.

donald_f · Post by **donald_f** » Tue Jul 24, 2012 12:12 pm

http://www.ukba.homeoffice.gov.uk/sitec ... egulations

Changes to the Immigration (European Economic Area) Regulations 2006

Can someone please a explain the changes in short and how they could affect me.

Post by **Obie** » Tue Jul 24, 2012 12:45 pm

I believe it would affect you in little or no way whatsoever.

This new regulation does not seek to affect rights of people who enjoy rights under the directive. It only seeks to implement ECJ judgement which UK should have implemented years ago. It also seeks to extend the scope of Public policy refusal.

Post by **Directive/2004/38/EC** » Wed Jul 25, 2012 1:54 pm

This is a template letter that I would personally use were I applying for an EEA family permit. You can feel free to use parts of it for your personal use.

It is intended to simply lay out the law in order to avoid any confusion by the ECO. I think each line easy to understand and accurate. I would welcome any feedback!

I am a married to a citizen of XXXX (an EU/EEA member state). We live together in YYYY. We plan to travel together to the UK. (Letter from my spouse is attached)

I have provided my passport, a photocopy of my spouse’s EU/EEA passport, and our marriage certificate. This is the required proof under EU free movement law of identity and family relationship.

I meet all of the requirements for issuing an EEA family permit, as exhaustively listed in Regulation 12 of the European Regulations. No other Regulation is relevant to the issue of EEA Family Permits, except the mentioned Regulation 21.

There are no preconditions to our entry or stay in the UK during the first 3 months [Regulation 13 of the European Regulations and Article 6 of Directive 2004/38/EC]

Should we decide to remain in the UK after three months has past, it is clear that my EU citizen spouse can be required at that point to be a “qualified person” (Regulation 14 of the European Regulations and Article 7 of Directive 2004/38/EC)

Article 8 & 9 of Directive 2004/38/EC are clear that the deadline for Residence Card formalities (such as proof of being a qualified person) “may not be less than three months from the date of arrival” in the UK

There is no obligation to fulfil any of the requirements or formalities of long term residence for the issue of the EEA Family Permit [ECJ case C-157/03, Commission v Spain [2005]]

Please refer to EUN2.4: “It is important not to test overall intentions in assessing applications for an EEA family permit. Also, there is an initial right of residence for 3 months, which means that an EEA national does not have to be exercising a treaty right immediately on arrival in the UK.”

A refusal of this application will interfere with the free movement of my EU spouse and of our family.
Should you have any questions of law, please discuss it carefully with Euro Casework

If you refuse this application, I will formally complain to senior management of UKBA, will formally complain to the European Commission, and will seek compensation. (See point 10)

An EEA Family Permit must be issued at no cost, giving me “every facility”, and on the basis of a priority process.

This letter forms part of my application

Thank you for your timely and professional attention to this application.

Post by **EUsmileWEallsmile** » Wed Jul 25, 2012 9:10 pm

Directive/2004/38/EC wrote: I meet all of the requirements for issuing an EEA family permit, as exhaustively listed in Regulation 12 of the European Regulations. No other Regulation is relevant to the issue of EEA Family Permits, except the mentioned Regulation 12.

Small error here.

Ben · Post by **Ben** » Wed Jul 25, 2012 9:20 pm

EUsmileWEallsmile wrote:
Directive/2004/38/EC wrote: I meet all of the requirements for issuing an EEA family permit, as exhaustively listed in Regulation 12 of the European Regulations. No other Regulation is relevant to the issue of EEA Family Permits, except the mentioned Regulation 12.
Small error here.

No, I think Directive intended to write Regulation 21. As in, only for reasons of public policy, public security and public health can the EEA Family Permit application be refused.

prince1475 · Post by **prince1475** » Wed Jul 25, 2012 10:22 pm

Hello,
Its more than 20 working days my wife is waiting for decision of EEA family permit from Bangalore,India. I email them they replied me that they cant disclose any information to third party according to UK data protection act 1998.From than my wife email's them everyday but not getting any reply from them.
Please Eusmile and Directive give some advice as what should we mention in email so that they takes decision quickly. my wife writes in email saying that according to so and so regulation application must be given priority and according regulation 7 she is my wife,she mentions regulations in her emails is that ok or should we have to mention something else like we are going to complain to UKBA and local MP in UK in which borough i live please advice.
what should we write or complain.

Post by **EUsmileWEallsmile** » Wed Jul 25, 2012 10:29 pm

prince1475 wrote:I email them they replied me that they cant disclose any information to third party according to UK data protection act 1998

This is simply an excuse. You are not asking them to disclose any confidential information, you are asking that they give priority to your wife's application as they are obliged to do by law. Keep at them.

Post by **Jambo** » Wed Jul 25, 2012 10:36 pm

- Are you emailing the consulate directly or VFS?
- Did you address it to the Operations Manager or the Visa Section Manager?
- Did you complain in the email or just asked to provide a status update of the application?

You should email the consulate directly, address the email to the Operations Manager or Visa section manager and write it as a complaint.

prince1475 · Post by **prince1475** » Wed Jul 25, 2012 10:43 pm

I am complaining on this email id jambo Chennai.VisaEnquiry@fco.gov.uk, i dont know whose email id is whether its Consular or operation manager.

Post by **Directive/2004/38/EC** » Wed Jul 25, 2012 10:52 pm

Ben wrote:No, I think Directive intended to write Regulation 21. As in, only for reasons of public policy, public security and public health can the EEA Family Permit application be refused.

It is correct but confusing as written. Regulation 12 refers to regulation 21. I will improve the microwording

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Refusals for EEA family permit