Trying to reduce the time needed from ILR -> Naturalisati

[joblo]

I recently applied for ILR. It has been close to 3 months so I am hoping to receive it soon. Unfortunately, it seems I will then have to wait for 12 months to pass before applying for naturalisation.

As it happens, my wife is a German citizen and she fulfils the residency requirement. If she applies for and receives British Citizenship - can I then apply for my own citizenship immediately afterwards?

[friendinneed]

As soon as she becomes british then you can apply as a spouse of a BC - in fact if you search on here there are some that say you can do them at the same time but I dont know that bit.

[Jambo]

As it happens, my wife is a German citizen and she fulfils the residency requirement.

Just to confirm that your wife is eligible to apply for BC - Have you wife been in the UK for 6 years? And at least for the first five years, have exercised EEA treaty rights?

[joblo]

Jambo: Yes - she has been resident here 6 years. I have been as well, but my first year here was as a student before I obtained the HSMP.

In terms of 'Exercising her treaty rites': She has been working full time for the past 5 years this coming June. Before then she had sporadic work while I was studying. I assume that should take care of it, yeah?

I contemplated applying for ILR last year as the spouse of an EEA national - but learned that I couldn't switch tracks, and would have to either follow the HSMP+ILR path, or give up the HSMP, start exercising rites as the spouse of an eea national, and start the residential requirement period clock at 0. This is why I am sceptical that my plan will work - although I'm hoping to be surprised

Has this been done before as far as you know?

[Jambo]

There are two different issues in question here:

- Whether you wife meets the requirements for BC
- Whether a spouse of BC can apply immediately after ILR.

The latter is easy to answer - Yes, assuming you meet the other requirements. See Q1 in - FAQ - most common questions.

The former can be simple but that depends. EEA nationals obtain PR status (similar to ILR) automatically after 5 years of exercising treaty rights. They need to have PR for 12 months before applying for BC. Employment is one way to exercise treaty rights. When you say she was working sporadic in the first year, how sporadic was it? Did you make a living out of it? It needs to be genuine and effective work to be considered as exercising treaty rights.

BTW - How long have you been married? You don't really switch between HSMP + Tier-1 and EEA route. They can run in parallel. Your time on a EEA route started when you has been living in the UK as a married couple, it doesn't reset when you switch. Even if you didn't apply under the EEA route, time is still counted automatically.

[joblo]

There are two different issues in question here:

- Whether you wife meets the requirements for BC

She worked as a nurse briefly, but then had issues with her licensure from Germany. She was then out of work for a time (I'll find out how long) before getting employment in a nursery school and as a tour-guide. Did we live off her earnings? Well, yes, along with my savings and a student loan. How is this decision about exercising treaty rites made?

BTW - How long have you been married? You can't switch between HSMP + Tier-1 and EEA route but they can run in parallel. Your time on a EEA route started when you has been living in the UK as a married couple, it doesn't reset when you switch

That certainly sounds sensible, but I've heard differently - that the time is counted from when I started 'exercising my rights' as the spouse of an EU citizen. What I've heard is that, because I had the HSMP, the HO consider that I was not exercising these rights. Are you aware of successful stories of people switching like this? If so, it may be an option for me as we are close to our 5th anniversary.[/quote]

[Jambo]

She worked as a nurse briefly, but then had issues with her licensure from Germany. She was then out of work for a time (I'll find out how long) before getting employment in a nursery school and as a tour-guide. Did we live off her earnings? Well, yes, along with my savings and a student loan. How is this decision about exercising treaty rites made?

There are few ways to exercise treaty rights. Employment is one. Self-sufficient (living off saving) is another. However, if you are self sufficient, you are required to have a private health insurance for all the family members. Otherwise, time as self sufficient won't count. So it depends how long she was out of work in order for her to claim she was a worker at that time. She can also exercise treaty rights as a job seeker (doesn't require insurance).
In essence, if her case is not straight forward, it might be risky for her to apply directly for BC. Might be better for her to apply for a confirmation of her PR status using form EEA3 to see how the HO would treat her first year. EEA3 application is free.

That certainly sounds sensible, but I've heard differently - that the time is counted from when I started 'exercising my rights' as the spouse of an EU citizen. What I've heard is that, because I had the HSMP, the HO consider that I was not exercising these rights. Are you aware of successful stories of people switching like this? If so, it may be an option for me as we are close to our 5th anniversary.

Not sure where you heard that but it is wrong. Under EEA regulations, your actions are not relevant. You don't exercise treaty rights. The EEA national does. As you already sent the ILR application, it would not matter much. But you should be aware that on your 5th anniversary you would obtain PR status automatically (assuming you were living in the UK during those 5 years and you wife was exercising treaty rights during that period).

Back to your original goal - if you can prove that your wife exercised treaty rights in the UK for 5 years and 12 months have passed since this was achieved, then she can apply for BC. Taking into account that a BC application takes several months, you can probably save a few months after ILR. Is it worth the £850 fee for the naturalisation application your wife will need to pay? I'm not convinced (unless your wife has a desire to become a BC anyway).

[joblo]

Here is the thread (with me posting as Obezag) where the confusion came from regarding HSMP vs. EEA Spouse status. You'll find you were involved in that one as well

http://www.immigrationboards.com/viewto ... sc&start=0

In the end, I was convinced that the lowest risk route was to apply via the standard HSMP/ILR route this February, which I did. But do you see my concern about my new plan? I'm worried that a 'switch' from HSMP+ILR to 'spouse of British citizen' may be treated in the same way as a switch from 'HSMP + ILR' to 'spouse of EEA National', as discussed in the thread above.

I appreciate your help, and I hate to pester you, but if you (or anyone) has a link to a story where someone was successful with the strategy we're talking about, it would be much appreciated.

[Jambo]

I can see where the confusion came from

You don't really "switch". Settlement and naturalisation are two different applications and are not related (although you need one to qualify for the other).

The rules for naturalisation are simple. If you meet them, you can apply. It doesn't matter which route you have been on before.

Success stories I found when searching the timelines posts - HSMP for ILR, BC Spouse for naturalisation and this one Spouse of EEA citizen who is now BC.

[joblo]

OK - I think you've convinced me that I wouldn't be the first one to try this - thanks.

Of course, this brings up some new questions:

I like your idea of using the EEA3 to see how my wife's first 18 months in the UK would be considered as 'exercising rights'. Will she get a response that includes something that specific? Will it say "You have been on ILR since September 20th of 2006"?

Are the waiting times for EEA3 responses as bad as other applications (3-6 months)?

If my wife does get BC - and I apply for BC in person. Will I then be free to travel while my application is being considered?

friendinneed mentioned that some people apply for citizenship at the same time as their spouse, enabling them to get around the 12 month ILR requirement. Have you heard of this?

[Jambo]

For EEA applications, the HO only confirms the status on the day the document is issued so it will just prove that PR status was held on 24/04/2012.

However, what she can do is just to submit evidence for the first 5 years. If they issue a PR confirmation, this will indicate that the evidence proved she obtained PR after those 5 years (and that she still holds it). The downside is that she will need to submit the same evidence again when applying for BC (unless she waits 12 months from the PR confirmation date) and it will be reviewed again by the nationality team. However, if she provide the PR confirmation letter and state this was based on evidence for first 5 years, it is likely the nationality team will get to the same conclusion as the European cases team.

The waiting time for EEA3 is 1-3 months in most cases.

If you apply using NCS, you get to keep your passport and can travel while your application is considered.

As for the friendinnedd comment see option 2 in Naturalisation Residency requirement for Spouse.

May I asked, what's the rush to get a BC? It's not because of visas (being US citizen and married to EEA national, you are pretty much covered). Do you want to go into politics or work for the government? This is a lot of effort just to save a few months.

[joblo]

We plan to remain in the UK long term, but I am currently getting work opportunities that would take me abroad for several months. I would like to be able to do this without the fear of blowing my residency requirement.

It sounds like I could work it like this:

1. Optional: We apply for my wife's residency using EEA3, as you've described
2. When I get my Passport back with ILR, I can immediately apply for BC, if I apply with my wife at the same time. I must include a cover letter to have her considered first to ensure that I am not constrained by the 12 month ILR requirement.
3. At this point, I am free to travel while the applications are considered - the risk being that I will lose the fees for both applications if my wife's does not go through, and I may have blown my residency requirement for future applications.

Do you agree this could work?

[Jambo]

A few ifs and some maybes but I agree this could work.