Can I go around the Chen case??

[Fornushi]

Hello all,

I am a single dad and I have a similar case which many will classify under the Chen case but with flaws of my own. I have a son and have full custody. He is German citizen. I sent him here to school in the UK since the German schools had little patience with him (diagnosed with ADHD), plus it was better here with him living with my sister and kids rather than just him and me in Germany and a bunch of bullies, and an impatient school.
Well, my stay in Germany as I later found out was dependent on him living with me. So the moment the authorities learnt I sent him to the UK, my stay was revoked.it was either bring the boy back or leave the country. I couldnt see myself jeopardizing the happy situation he was in with a school that could tolerate him, and no bullies etc, to bring him back to Germany just so that I can have my residence permit in Germany. After a year of legal battle, whIch I lost, I was ordered out of the country.
I illegaly entered the UK where he was because, if I went back to my country, the German authority would then have stepped in to take back the child and revoking my custody cos it would be similar to abandonment if I was in anoter continent and the child wa in another (German lawyer talk).
I have read the UKBA articles and assumed that I hav a Chen similar case(forgive me if am wrong).
My questions are:
-How helpless/hopeful is my case?
-what consequences will I face for illegaly entering the UK?
-if I have a Chen similar case, how can go about it to have a work permit? My sister takes care of my son and all, but it will be a real burden to add me to it.

[Directive/2004/38/EC]

Chen is not so interesting. Chen you must be self sufficient and can not work.

Zambrano is more interesting. Read
http://www.immigrationboards.com/viewtopic.php?t=86713

[Fornushi]

Chen is not so interesting. Chen you must be self sufficient and can not work.

Zambrano is more interesting. Read
http://www.immigrationboards.com/viewtopic.php?t=86713

I thought zambrano applies only if the child is British citizen. My son is German citizen.

[Directive/2004/38/EC]

I agree the original case had the child being a citizen of the member state. But imagine the child was a citizen of another member state, for some reason. Would it still make sense?

I guess another way of asking the question is as follows: Should the child of a German child living in the UK be disadvantaged relative to the same child who was born with British citizenship? Would the ECJ allow that if asked?

http://www.freemovement.org.uk/2011/03/ ... rano-case/
and http://www.freemovement.org.uk/2011/03/ ... onsidered/

[Fornushi]

I agree the original case had the child being a citizen of the member state. But imagine the child was a citizen of another member state, for some reason. Would it still make sense?

I guess another way of asking the question is as follows: Should the child of a German child living in the UK be disadvantaged relative to the same child who was born with British citizenship? Would the ECJ allow that if asked?

http://www.freemovement.org.uk/2011/03/ ... rano-case/
and http://www.freemovement.org.uk/2011/03/ ... onsidered/

I read through all your informative links( thx for the thoroughness, time and patience).
But more questions are still open. Remember I said my son was here 16 months before I came. He lives with my sister which then makes my sister a carer. An in case of a carer I could be removed as the child has a carer. or am I getting something wrong?

[Greenie]

I don't see how Zambrano applies in this case. The child is already living in the Uk with another family member. If his father is removed from Germany, this will have no effect on the child's ability to enjoy his rights as an EU citizen. The child's living in the UK is not dependent on his father living in the EU (or indeed living in the UK)

[Directive/2004/38/EC]

I don't see how Zambrano applies in this case. The child is already living in the Uk with another family member. If his father is removed from Germany, this will have no effect on the child's ability to enjoy his rights as an EU citizen. The child's living in the UK is not dependent on his father living in the EU (or indeed living in the UK)

I agree that none of this is relevant in Germany. Child is not there.

The child is in the UK. The child is in the temporary care of an Aunt.

But if you read Zambrano, then I think it is pretty clear that the parents need to be there for the child to be able to have effective rights as a citizen. It is not enough to send them off to a foster home and send the parents on the first plane.

In what way would that not also apply in this case?

Why would this parent of a German child resident in the UK, not have the right to be with the child, whereas the same parent would have the right to be with the child if it happened to have British citizenship?

[Greenie]

I don't see how Zambrano applies in this case. The child is already living in the Uk with another family member. If his father is removed from Germany, this will have no effect on the child's ability to enjoy his rights as an EU citizen. The child's living in the UK is not dependent on his father living in the EU (or indeed living in the UK)

I agree that none of this is relevant in Germany. Child is not there.

The child is in the UK. The child is in the temporary care of an Aunt.

But if you read Zambrano, then I think it is pretty clear that the parents need to be there for the child to be able to have effective rights as a citizen. It is not enough to send them off to a foster home and send the parents on the first plane.

In what way would that not also apply in this case?

Why would this parent of a German child resident in the UK, not have the right to be with the child, whereas the same parent would have the right to be with the child if it happened to have British citizenship?

it's not about the parent's rights, but about the child's rights. The child has been living in the UK for over a year without his parents. In Zambrano the parents needed to be given permission to live and work in Belgium because without this the children would have had to leave Belgium and indeed the EU and thus not benefit from their rights as an EU citizen.

This is not the case for this child who has already been living in the UK with family members for over a year. If his father is not granted a residence permit to live in the UK, there is no suggestion that the child would need to leave the UK nor leave the EU. The child also does not appear to be financially dependent on his father, he is supported by his aunt. If the child was British in this scenario, I don't see the situation being any different - i.e. I don't see how Zambrano would apply.