Case 424/10 and Case 425/10 Ziolkowski et al vs Berlin

Jersey · Post by **Jersey** » Fri May 25, 2012 4:03 pm

I'm an A2 who exercise treaty rights in the UK for 3.5 years, however prior to that I had a NON-EU student visa (started in August 2006, till end of January 2008) in the UK (received my A2 passport before the end of 2007).

Does it mean I can apply to permanent residence or I will have to wait 5 years since starting to use my EU citizenship and exercising treaty rights?

Post by **Directive/2004/38/EC** » Fri May 25, 2012 9:43 pm

Your TITLE has come out garbled. Maybe you can edit it to make it clear.

I understand that you got your A2 passport at the end of 2007. How did you get your citizenship and when?

Have you seen http://www.immigrationboards.com/viewtopic.php?t=92487

Jersey · Post by **Jersey** » Sat May 26, 2012 1:05 am

Directive/2004/38/EC wrote:Your TITLE has come out garbled. Maybe you can edit it to make it clear.

I understand that you got your A2 passport at the end of 2007. How did you get your citizenship and when?

Have you seen http://www.immigrationboards.com/viewtopic.php?t=92487

Yes you understood correct. I got it through a formal application through the relevant embassy.

I read the link you posted before, that's how I heard about that case, however it is not clear to me if I can apply to get a permanent residence now or not.

Post by **Directive/2004/38/EC** » Sat May 26, 2012 2:45 am

Were you applying for citizenship though the embassy, or applying for your existing citizenship to be acknowledged, or applying just for a passport?

Jersey · Post by **Jersey** » Sat May 26, 2012 12:50 pm

Directive/2004/38/EC wrote:Were you applying for citizenship though the embassy, or applying for your existing citizenship to be acknowledged, or applying just for a passport?

Applying for citizenship and passport.

Jersey · Post by **Jersey** » Tue May 29, 2012 9:02 pm

Post by **EUsmileWEallsmile** » Tue May 29, 2012 9:27 pm

I imagine in your case it will be five years after you acquired citizenship (I take it from the above that you did not have it since birth) since you already appear to have been exercising treaty rights since.

Post by **Jambo** » Tue May 29, 2012 9:36 pm

Although in practice if someone presents a passport, the HO can't establish when the citizenship was acquired.

Post by **Directive/2004/38/EC** » Wed May 30, 2012 1:37 pm

Jambo wrote:Although in practice if someone presents a passport, the HO can't establish when the citizenship was acquired.

Is the question even asked on the forms?

Jersey · Post by **Jersey** » Fri Jun 01, 2012 12:19 pm

EUsmileWEallsmile wrote:I imagine in your case it will be five years after you acquired citizenship (I take it from the above that you did not have it since birth) since you already appear to have been exercising treaty rights since.

True that I didn't have it from birth, just acquired it towards the end of 2007. I got 'Registration Certificate' in December 2008 which means I have no restrictions on work or living. So would it mean I will need to count from getting the RC or from getting the EU passport? since I could live without working, as long as I'm job-seeker, isn't it?

Post by **Directive/2004/38/EC** » Fri Jun 01, 2012 2:06 pm

Out of interest, how did you qualify as a citizen? Did you marry a citizen? Had you lived there for years? Are you an investor? Because your (great) grandparents were citizens? Or something else?

Jersey · Post by **Jersey** » Sun Jun 03, 2012 9:46 am

grandparents.

Post by **Directive/2004/38/EC** » Sun Jun 03, 2012 10:14 am

Jersey wrote:grandparents.

Neat!

And so you were actually applying to be granted citizenship recently? Or were you simply applying for official acknowledgement of the citizenship you actually have had since birth?

I am asking, because it can make a difference in your UK situation

Jersey · Post by **Jersey** » Mon Jun 04, 2012 10:56 am

Directive/2004/38/EC wrote:
Jersey wrote:grandparents.
Neat!

And so you were actually applying to be granted citizenship recently? Or were you simply applying for official acknowledgement of the citizenship you actually have had since birth?

I am asking, because it can make a difference in your UK situation

I got it slightly less than 5 years ago, I didn't have it since birth because I wasn't born in that country.

Post by **Directive/2004/38/EC** » Mon Jun 04, 2012 1:20 pm

OK. Interesting. I am less used to the case where you do not have citizenship but then apply for it later. Colombia does that for children of Colombian citizens, though in that case the citizenship is retroactively applied to birth (I believe).

A number of countries, such as Ireland, grant Irish citizen to children and grandchildren of their citizens at birth, no matter where the child was born. There is still an application process for the confirmation of the already existing citizenship. Lots of people in North America "discover" at some later point that they "could be a citizen" of some European country, when in fact they have been a citizen all along and just never new it. They often confuse applying for their passport for having applied for citizenship.

Jersey · Post by **Jersey** » Thu Jun 07, 2012 10:21 am

Many thanks for your replies. What does it mean for me? does it worth applying now , or should I wait until the end of next year?

Post by **Directive/2004/38/EC** » Thu Jun 07, 2012 11:09 am

Is there any downside to applying for PR confirmation now? If not I would do the application over the weekend and submnit on Monday.

I think the worst case is they say "NO" and then you appeal. Or?

Post by **Jambo** » Thu Jun 07, 2012 12:04 pm

If you apply, make it clear in a cover letter that you are basing the application on the mentioned cases. Also did have a Residence Certificate as a student or EHIC from your home country? Otherwise you will need to hold a valid CSI for the period.

Jersey · Post by **Jersey** » Wed Jun 20, 2012 1:25 pm

Jambo wrote:If you apply, make it clear in a cover letter that you are basing the application on the mentioned cases. Also did have a Residence Certificate as a student or EHIC from your home country? Otherwise you will need to hold a valid CSI for the period.

I had a student visa (which I had to stamp at a Police Station) for my time as student, will that be a problem?

Post by **Jambo** » Wed Jun 20, 2012 3:21 pm

I assumed (wrongly?) that you were still a student. How do you exercise treaty rights since January 2008? If in employment, then CSI is not required for that period.

Not sure how the HO would treat your student years. Under EEA regulations you need CSI to be considered exercising treaty rights but this is not required for student visa holders.

Jersey · Post by **Jersey** » Sun Aug 05, 2012 6:47 pm

Does 5 years count starts from getting a Registration Certificate, or from the moment of arriving in the UK? can't an A2 be here for some time before applying for a blue card?

Post by **Directive/2004/38/EC** » Sun Aug 05, 2012 11:41 pm

Normally for an EU/EEA citizen, the 5 years begins from the day you arrive. See http://eumovement.wordpress.com/2011/05 ... nce-begin/

Jersey · Post by **Jersey** » Mon Aug 06, 2012 1:15 pm

Directive/2004/38/EC wrote:Normally for an EU/EEA citizen, the 5 years begins from the day you arrive. See http://eumovement.wordpress.com/2011/05 ... nce-begin/

Thank you very much.

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Case 424/10 and Case 425/10 Ziolkowski et al vs Berlin

Case 424/10 and Case 425/10 Ziolkowski et al vs Berlin