FPNs and ILR

[ilrcoming]

Hello,
I will be completing my 5 years in UK on tier(G) in sept 2012 and would be applying for ILR around Aug end 2012.

I had got one FPN (£60 & 3 point) in 13 Aug 2011(the offence date on the notice, FPN was dated later) and another FPN in mid May 2012 (£60, no points) and non of these had any court involvement.

Considering the following about FPNs, would it be ok to apply for ILR after 13th Aug say 14th Aug?

"The exceptions to this are when either there are criminal proceedings for failure to pay and the individual has an unspent conviction as a result of that or the individual has multiple penalty notices, particularly over a short period of time. In these cases you must consider the case in line with the general requirements of character, conduct and associations within paragraph 322(5) of the rules."


Thanks

[friend12345]

Hello,
I will be completing my 5 years in UK on tier(G) in sept 2012 and would be applying for ILR around Aug end 2012.

I had got one FPN (£60 & 3 point) in 13 Aug 2011(the offence date on the notice) and another FPN in mid May 2012 (£60, no points) and non of these had any court involvement.

Considering the following about FPNs, would it be ok to apply for ILR after 13th Aug say 14th Aug?

"The exceptions to this are when either there are criminal proceedings for failure to pay and the individual has an unspent conviction as a result of that or the individual has multiple penalty notices, particularly over a short period of time. In these cases you must consider the case in line with the general requirements of character, conduct and associations within paragraph 322(5) of the rules."


Thanks

You will be okay, FPN's dont need to be disclosed in application form either.

Good Luck

[ilrcoming]

Thanks friend12345 for replying.

Was just wondering, if I dont even have to mention about FPN, what sources UKBA would follow to judge if I got more than 2 FPNs in last 12 months?
I believe CRB check and check against PNC does not list FPNs, which perhaps what UKBA uses to check unspent convictions?

Gurus please suggest.
-Do I need to mention the two FPNs while filling the ILR form?

Thanks.

[ilrcoming]

Gurus any comments please?

[ilrcoming]

Guys....plzzz give ur opinion...more voices will surely help me decide things...

[geriatrix]

Reading through this topic may help.

[ilrcoming]

Hi Sushdmehta,

I picked this from your post in the link.

Code: Select all

If the OP is sure that none of the FPN(s) have led to a conviction, then:

Not disclosing FPN(s) cannot be construed as deception / lie / fraud as the form clearly asks the applicant to disclose only "criminal conviction" or "civil judgement". The form does not ask for details about motoring / criminal / civil "offences" that the applicant has committed in the qualifying residential period and/or any fines or penalties that the applicant may have paid on account of such offences.

That said, filling up the form inaccurately by disclosing FPN(s) and claiming to have criminal conviction or civil judgement when one has none in reality will also make no difference. The CW will verify the details on their systems, recognise that the applicant isn't aware of the difference between FPN and conviction / judgement, and proceed on.

But I do agree with the general opinion that mentioning an offence rather than not mentioning makes one free from unnecessary worry regarding the issue. Being honest, even though inaccurate, still brings calm. And from CW's perspective, it makes no difference - whether you disclose it or not, he /she is going to check their systems regardless!! 

I do agree with this. As I am planning to apply in person, I am more inclined to not to mention about FPN in my application. In my case I do not want to be caught by the clause

or the individual has multiple penalty notices, particularly over a short period of time

So I believe applying after 13 Aug 2012 (when I do not have more than 1 FPN in last 12 months) should be fine without mentioning FPN in the form.

Do you agree?

[geriatrix]

IMHO, 2 FPNs in the year preceding the application will have no affect on the outcome of the application. Had you received more than 2, I would have suggested that you wait.

That said, no harm in deferring the application by a few days, if it helps you worry any less about the issue.

[ilrcoming]

I got 2 FPNs .

One:
Traffic light offence
On 17th Aug 2011, NIP(by post) was sent to me to identify driver's name and send DL, I sent my name in the form by post and got option to choose FPN(by post) (dated 31 Aug 2011) and I paid by filling the form next week (sent by post) using debit card
£60 and 3 point on license

Two:
FPN on 18 May 2012, paid by phone

Considering I was given option to pay for FPN first time on 31 Aug 2011, I am planning to apply for ILR in first week of Sept 2012

[shahjee]

Mr. ILRCOMING!!

I've got 1 FPN of July, 2011 which I've declared in my ILR to remain application submitted in February, 2012. If you look at the form of ILR application, they are asking for all the convictions to be declared INCLUDING traffic offences. You might have got a code beginning with "CU" which literally means "CONVICTION". Hence its better to declare them all. Moreover, if you do decide NOT to mention them, then you might be rejected under general grounds of refusal as HO might think that you'r hiding it for a reason. Hence speak the truth out, declare it & leave the rest to God. After all HE is there to look after you.

[geriatrix]

Mr. ILRCOMING!!

I've got 1 FPN of July, 2011 which I've declared in my ILR to remain application submitted in February, 2012. If you look at the form of ILR application, they are asking for all the convictions to be declared INCLUDING traffic offences. You might have got a code beginning with "CU" which literally means "CONVICTION". Hence its better to declare them all. Moreover, if you do decide NOT to mention them, then you might be rejected under general grounds of refusal as HO might think that you'r hiding it for a reason. Hence speak the truth out, declare it & leave the rest to God. After all HE is there to look after you.

You might have got a code beginning with "CU" which literally means "CONVICTION".

Does it? One very reliable government website suggests that offence codes beginning with CU refer to "construction and use" offences!

It is better not to guide than misguide.

[shahjee]

You are correct about the relilable government website. They refer to "construction and use" offences but in practice they treat it as an offence, which I was emphasizing on. My main point in the whole discussion is to declare it & be safe. Not declaring it is inviting trouble.What if HO comes back & says that we are rejecting as you haven't declared it & we are treating it as lie. Better declare it & be safe. Truth will make you safe!!

[geriatrix]

I haven't contradicted you with regards to that part of your statement / suggestion. I have only commented on the claim you made about offences with codes beginning with "CU". Regardless of what the two alphabets of the code may be, an offence is an offence. No doubt about it!!

[ali_khan03008]

Dear all,

I am applying ILR in jan 2013, i got three points FPN due to not follow the traffic sign which i paid on time. I applied the extension last year and mentioned this on my application. The case working make special note on my approval letter saying UKBA consider all type of FPN as conviction and i must have to declare this in my future application.

I am not sure if points spent in three years or five years ? will i be ok in my ILR ?

[ilrcoming]

Hi All,
I 'll be applying for ILR soon now and as mentioned earlier I got two FPNs.
one on 13 Aug 2011(the offence date on the notice, FPN offer was dated later I guess 31 Aug) and another FPN in mid May 2012 (£60, no points) and non of these had any court involvement.

1. So am wondering If need to mention the FPNs in the SET(O) form? Sent a mail to UKBA but they never gave a clear answer.

2. Also would be attending Solihull appointment. Was wondering If I mention in the form and if they would take this as a complex case n suggest me to apply by post/or croydon PEO?

[tipu20]

According to my understanding one does not need to declare FPN.

From site. http://www.ukba.homeoffice.gov.uk/briti ... character/

------
You must give details of all unspent criminal convictions. This includes road traffic offences but not fixed penalty notices (such as speeding or parking tickets) unless they were given in court. You must include all drink-driving offences. An explanation of unspent convictions is given below.
-----

Above suggest that you should give information about unspent convictions and FPN are not needs declaring

Ofcourse a FOI request from ukba might clarify this or someone's personal experience with their ILR or extension application can clarify further.

Tipu

[innocentdevil]

DECLARE the offenses. It says on application form that you declare offenses (including FPNs). do not hide anything.

if you do not have more than 1 FPN within 12 months of one another then you are ok.

[tipu20]

Can you please provide the link and page number on which it's said that you should declare FPN ?

DECLARE the offenses. It says on application form that you declare offenses (including FPNs). do not hide anything.

if you do not have more than 1 FPN within 12 months of one another then you are ok.

[ilrcoming]

DECLARE the offenses. It says on application form that you declare offenses (including FPNs). do not hide anything.

if you do not have more than 1 FPN within 12 months of one another then you are ok

My understanding is one should not have more than 1 FPN in last 12 months from the date of ILR application. I am little confused with your statement of
"if you do not have more than 1 FPN within 12 months of one another then you are ok"


Also any comments about qn 2.
2. Also would be attending Solihull appointment. Was wondering If I mention in the form and if they would take this as a complex case n suggest me to apply by post/or croydon PEO?

[raghu0307]

Mr. ILRCOMING!!

I've got 1 FPN of July, 2011 which I've declared in my ILR to remain application submitted in February, 2012. If you look at the form of ILR application, they are asking for all the convictions to be declared INCLUDING traffic offences. You might have got a code beginning with "CU" which literally means "CONVICTION". Hence its better to declare them all. Moreover, if you do decide NOT to mention them, then you might be rejected under general grounds of refusal as HO might think that you'r hiding it for a reason. Hence speak the truth out, declare it & leave the rest to God. After all HE is there to look after you.

Just was seeing this reply and just couldnt help but updating the actual sentence from the application:

note: We will carry out criminal record checks on all applicants and dependants. You must give details of all unspent and spent criminal convictions. This includes road traffic offences but not fixed penalty notices (such as speeding or parking tickets) unless they were part of a sentence of the court. This includes all drink-driving offences.

It clearly says BUT NOT FIXED PENALTY NOTICES...Please read carefully and as said by someone, it is better to clearly guide some one rather than give incorrect information(though unintentional)