Irish GREEN CARD refusal

[noneuguyindublin]

Hi All!!

I am a post graduate student, I will graduate in Sept 2012. This is my second Masters degree in Ireland, i already have one here. So after having 2 masters degrees and getting responses for interviews but when I reveal my student status (Stamp2) to the interviewer the reaction changes and suddenly , terms like great, excellent and very good disapper and interview is cut short.
To be honest this is very depressing, there has to be some criteria to diffrentiate genuine applicants than the rest. My green card application has been refused. The reason is simple, there isn't much explanation of the so called skilled shortage list. I have few questions if someone can please elaborate this for me.
1) what does planning & quality control means in Appendix A of the Green card guidelines. There is no such job title as planning and quality control, it has to be a planner or quality controller or planning manager or something.
2) The sector is Industry , now the question is which industry (construction, food, manufacturing) or it is general industry.
I was offered a job for Production Planner in a Manufacturing Industry. The application was refused for this role.

Can you please help me on this topic.
Thanks

[walrusgumble]

Hi All!!

I am a post graduate student, I will graduate in Sept 2012. This is my second Masters degree in Ireland, i already have one here. So after having 2 masters degrees and getting responses for interviews but when I reveal my student status (Stamp2) to the interviewer the reaction changes and suddenly , terms like great, excellent and very good disapper and interview is cut short.
To be honest this is very depressing, there has to be some criteria to diffrentiate genuine applicants than the rest. My green card application has been refused. The reason is simple, there isn't much explanation of the so called skilled shortage list. I have few questions if someone can please elaborate this for me.
1) what does planning & quality control means in Appendix A of the Green card guidelines. There is no such job title as planning and quality control, it has to be a planner or quality controller or planning manager or something.
2) The sector is Industry , now the question is which industry (construction, food, manufacturing) or it is general industry.
I was offered a job for Production Planner in a Manufacturing Industry. The application was refused for this role.

Can you please help me on this topic.
Thanks

It has nothing to do with being genuine or not. You clearly are genuine

A Stamp 2 student is only given permission to enter Ireland to do their studies and once finished , they must leave. They are not discouraged from making work permit / green card applications until they leave Ireland - return to their countries.

You were never given an indication or promise that you would be allowed to work in Ireland without permits etc.

The criteria, to be blunt, is there to protect Irish Citizens (and non Irish who live here on stamp 4). The current economy is gone to pot, so there is no real need for issuing NEW green card in most areas

Are you in a relationship / married



The Industry you referred to, you will have great difficulty convinced the department that it was not possible to hire Irish or EU citizenship for that posts, hence refusal

[noneuguyindublin]

@ walrusgumble

Thank you for your reply. I never said that i was given any kind of indication that I will be allowed to work in ireland without permits but I was given an indication that I can get a Green Card once I have fulfilled the criteria (Which i did).
As far industry is concerned regarding Green Card , the comapny does not have to prove that they haven't found a suitable Irish or Eu candidate. This is the major difference between Green Card and Work Permit, there is not labour Market test.
My major Concerns are that there is no explanation of the Shortage skills catagory, which is confusing. I know that economy is down but still there are jobs in IT sector and for Professionals in Ireland. If there are not many Irish and EU candidates around for those specific jobs and if the companies are hiring suitable Non-Eu candidates, I think its ok.

[walrusgumble]

@ walrusgumble

Thank you for your reply. I never said that i was given any kind of indication that I will be allowed to work in ireland without permits but I was given an indication that I can get a Green Card once I have fulfilled the criteria (Which i did).
As far industry is concerned regarding Green Card , the comapny does not have to prove that they haven't found a suitable Irish or Eu candidate. This is the major difference between Green Card and Work Permit, there is not labour Market test.
My major Concerns are that there is no explanation of the Shortage skills catagory, which is confusing. I know that economy is down but still there are jobs in IT sector and for Professionals in Ireland. If there are not many Irish and EU candidates around for those specific jobs and if the companies are hiring suitable Non-Eu candidates, I think its ok.

Who gave you such an indication and what basis did you preceive that you were given such an indication? I am sorry , but, such beliefs were groundless

Both types of arrangements are in place only if and when it is not possible to fill those vacancies with Irish , eu nationals or other non eu/irish nationals on stamp 4/

Even if they were not groundless, there is nothing stopping employers from being unwilling to have to go through the hassle of applying for a green card or work permit

I am well aware of the differences between green cards and work permits, but the same basis for granting them remain the same (can't get enough Irish /eu people) (you still need to have a better ratio of irish/eu in the work place)

Also, all students are told that they must leave the country first , if they wish to change their status to work permits


there clearly are plenty of Irish - EU people around to fill in the vanacies for specific IT jobs. Your talking about a potential 500 million to choose from

Of course it is perfectly okay for a company to hire a person like you if they can't get suitable Irish, EU or immigrant stamp 4 people for the job. that is what these permits are for. I never suggested that it was wrong

The economy is bad, thus, plenty of people unemployed thus, the likelihood of getting more suitable people

What area of IT by the way

[noneuguyindublin]

Who gave you such an indication and what basis did you preceive that you were given such an indication? I am sorry , but, such beliefs were groundless

Both types of arrangements are in place only if and when it is not possible to fill those vacancies with Irish , eu nationals or other non eu/irish nationals on stamp 4/

Even if they were not groundless, there is nothing stopping employers from being unwilling to have to go through the hassle of applying for a green card or work permit

I am well aware of the differences between green cards and work permits, but the same basis for granting them remain the same (can't get enough Irish /eu people) (you still need to have a better ratio of irish/eu in the work place)

Also, all students are told that they must leave the country first , if they wish to change their status to work permits


there clearly are plenty of Irish - EU people around to fill in the vanacies for specific IT jobs. Your talking about a potential 500 million to choose from

Of course it is perfectly okay for a company to hire a person like you if they can't get suitable Irish, EU or immigrant stamp 4 people for the job. that is what these permits are for. I never suggested that it was wrong

The economy is bad, thus, plenty of people unemployed thus, the likelihood of getting more suitable people

What area of IT by the way

hi!

It was mentioned on DEJI website that after graduation the purpose of third level graduate scheme is to stay in ireland and apply for green card. Well this is not the question, you are right a green card isn't promised but there is an indication (possibility) for a non-eu getting a green card. Anyway this is not the issue.

As I said the confsing thing in the 'Green Card Guidelines June 2011' is the List (Appendix A). The industry is not clear, which industry (like planner in construction or food or manufacturing , electronics, services). Its not clear.

Most Employers have no problem signing a contract. When I applied I had a contract, so Employers are willing to go through that hassle. Most of times the employee apply for green card.

Well I guess you should read the Green Card Guidelines published in June 2011. It clearly states multiple times (page 2 & page 9) that a labour market test (EU & Irish candidates) is not required.

No student has to leave the country if they wish to change their status. There is third level Graduate scheme in place to accommodate the non-eu students.

The stats tell another story about the work permits & green cards being issued last year.

Most companies have a hiring process these days. Phone interview, physcometric tests, assessment centres, technical interviews, HR interviews. Now If a non-eu is selected after this process I believe it can be argued that the company was not able to find a suitable Irish/EU candidate. Unfortunately this is not considered during the Green Card application process by the Officers sitting in the office.

All sectors of IT has Indians working there, Cloud, Software development etc.

[walrusgumble]

hi!

It was mentioned on DEJI website that after graduation the purpose of third level graduate scheme is to stay in ireland and apply for green card. Well this is not the question, you are right a green card isn't promised but there is an indication (possibility) for a non-eu getting a green card. Anyway this is not the issue.

Wrongish, it was an indication that you could apply, directly from Ireland, the right to make an application and no more. (Normally you have to apply from abroad). Of course you may be looked at more favourably.

As I said the confsing thing in the 'Green Card Guidelines June 2011' is the List (Appendix A). The industry is not clear, which industry (like planner in construction or food or manufacturing , electronics, services). Its not clear.

Probably, considered a blanket ban, all of the industries.

Most Employers have no problem signing a contract.

Oh one bet's they don't! Won't be so happy if they have to pay for the green cards etc however.

When I applied I had a contract, so Employers are willing to go through that hassle. Most of times the employee apply for green card.

You got lucky, but saying that, your area probably needs people like you (ie non EU ) so they have no choice.

Well I guess you should read the Green Card Guidelines published in June 2011. It clearly states multiple times (page 2 & page 9) that a labour market test (EU & Irish candidates) is not required.

Your not going to get a green card! These green cards are not going to be given out willy nilly anymore! It will depend on the area that they work in. They will be strict with the salary requirement (As a way to get around it)

No point quoting guidelines (and that is all they are) from 1 year ago. THe circumstances have changed.

No student has to leave the country if they wish to change their status. There is third level Graduate scheme in place to accommodate the non-eu students.

Sorry, I was actually referring to those "language students" actually, so I concede

The stats tell another story about the work permits & green cards being issued last year.

Not with you ,our saying that they are up? (including renewal of applications as oppose to brand new ones)

Most companies have a hiring process these days. Phone interview, physcometric tests, assessment centres, technical interviews, HR interviews. Now If a non-eu is selected after this process I believe it can be argued that the company was not able to find a suitable Irish/EU candidate.

How convenient for them. I doubt that they looked hard enough, no offence to you intended. ( I am referring to not just Irish - which is believable, but other EU people)

Unfortunately this is not considered during the Green Card application process by the Officers sitting in the office.

Because very few people will accept that a company will have problems obtaining qualified and skilled workers from Europe. Ireland , after Portugal is suppose to second in line for the number of job applications : jobs offered ratio , at the moment


Must admit, the amount of new work permits (and not green cards) is very surprising especially in service industry

All sectors of IT has Indians working there, Cloud, Software development etc.[/size]

Yes, and some are here on stamp 4 whether through marriage or children.



http://www.djei.ie/labour/workpermits/statistics.htm

[starbuck]

Yes, and some are here on stamp 4 whether through marriage or children.

---> Many of them who are here on stamp 4 in IT are one who have renewed their green cards, working visas etc.

What makes you think indian IT professionals are here due to marriage or children ??

Thanks
*$

[walrusgumble]

Yes, and some are here on stamp 4 whether through marriage or children.

---> Many of them who are here on stamp 4 in IT are one who have renewed their green cards, working visas etc.

What makes you think indian IT professionals are here due to marriage or children ??

Thanks
*$

And some of them are here on stamp 4 's via legitimate relationships via marriage and children.

Some came to Ireland legitimately in the late 1990's via permits etc, formed relationships, regardless of nationalities, and got stamp 4 quicker (for example, children being Irish, or irish / British spouse). Many are now naturalised.

What is the big deal? They earned their stamp 4's

Your the spokesperson for all of them are you?

I only explained why "some" people are on Stamp 4.

[starbuck]

Yes, and some are here on stamp 4 whether through marriage or children.

---> Many of them who are here on stamp 4 in IT are one who have renewed their green cards, working visas etc.

What makes you think indian IT professionals are here due to marriage or children ??

Thanks
*$

And some of them are here on stamp 4 's via legitimate relationships via marriage and children.

Some came to Ireland legitimately in the late 1990's via permits etc, formed relationships, regardless of nationalities, and got stamp 4 quicker (for example, children being Irish, or irish / British spouse). Many are now naturalised.

What is the big deal? They earned their stamp 4's

Your the spokesperson for all of them are you?

I only explained why "some" people are on Stamp 4.

You said some .. but you are highlighting the IT sect as if they have done marriage of convenience .. and they had kids only for stamp - 4 sake.

Its a big deal because most of them have earned it paying taxes and being good law abiding citizens.

You would never understand because you are not one among them.

And regarding being a spokes person .. i am not a spokes person but one among them .. but that does not mean you comment on them in a derogatory manner.

[noneuguyindublin]

Most companies have a hiring process these days. Phone interview, physcometric tests, assessment centres, technical interviews, HR interviews. Now If a non-eu is selected after this process I believe it can be argued that the company was not able to find a suitable Irish/EU candidate.

How convenient for them. I doubt that they looked hard enough, no offence to you intended. ( I am referring to not just Irish - which is believable, but other EU people)

If you are not familiar with the hiring process I can't do much about that sorry. The computer test doesnt know if the person is Irish, EU or non-Eu and there isn't one person involved in hiring throughout this process. Just Google it.

Unfortunately this is not considered during the Green Card application process by the Officers sitting in the office.

Because very few people will accept that a company will have problems obtaining qualified and skilled workers from Europe. Ireland , after Portugal is suppose to second in line for the number of job applications : jobs offered ratio , at the moment

Its not the question of one's beliefs,Companies are there to do business and make money, they are not gona pay someone 30k just on the basis of nationality.


P.S ; The pupose of this thread is not to offend anyone. I just want clarification of the Green Card Permits System. If anyone can help me,thanks in advance for that. Please don't make this a Words War between EU and Non- EU workers. All of us are going through troubled times and whoever has invested his money and time in Education and improving skills should be given a fair chance.
Thankyou 'walrusgumble' for your time. I really appreciate that.
I haven't got the answer yet so Please if anyone who can setaside EU and NON-EU thing and just talk about the Green Card Permits System I will appreciate that.
Thank you

[walrusgumble]

Yes, and some are here on stamp 4 whether through marriage or children.

---> Many of them who are here on stamp 4 in IT are one who have renewed their green cards, working visas etc.

What makes you think indian IT professionals are here due to marriage or children ??

Thanks
*$

And some of them are here on stamp 4 's via legitimate relationships via marriage and children.

Some came to Ireland legitimately in the late 1990's via permits etc, formed relationships, regardless of nationalities, and got stamp 4 quicker (for example, children being Irish, or irish / British spouse). Many are now naturalised.

What is the big deal? They earned their stamp 4's

Your the spokesperson for all of them are you?

I only explained why "some" people are on Stamp 4.

You said some .. but you are highlighting the IT sect as if they have done marriage of convenience .. and they had kids only for stamp - 4 sake.

That is incorrect. You are intentionally and unjusifibly being paranoid. When that comment was stated, I clearly used the words "legitimately". Unless you really slow, it is not possible for you to make such suggestions on the basis of those posts.

So get off the high horse or you will be kicked off.

I am not going to apologies for any offence caused (I would If I had not made by myself clear) because, I made by self very clear in the first place before you butted in. If anything my reply to you made it crystal clear. Your just picking a fight and getting no where

Its a big deal because most of them have earned it paying taxes and being good law abiding citizens.

Yes, where do I dispute that, they earned it. You were getting on your high course and attempting to accuse me of something, and I knew what you were getting at. This reply confirms my suspicions.

All I said, was, some people had stamp 4's, and just said, move on. Your trying to pick a fight


Secondly, as for earning it simply because you pay tax. First of all, (i accept they did pay alot, compared to lower skilled workers) big swinging mickey, if anyone wants to work in any country, naturally, top jobs = more tax liability. Its the law , you pay tax, you have no choice. You don't pay, you don't get work. So, unless you want a medal, why bring it up (I already stated clearly that these people earned their rights)

You would never understand because you are not one among them.

Please don't get any illusion that I would ever want to be one among them.

And regarding being a spokes person .. i am not a spokes person but one among them .. but that does not mean you comment on them in a derogatory manner.

Where did I ? I saw you a mile away, you were biting at the bit to try and interpret that I said anything unfairly, despite my posts showing the contrary. You attempted to misinterpret me. For that, you should be treated with contempt

[walrusgumble]

Most companies have a hiring process these days. Phone interview, physcometric tests, assessment centres, technical interviews, HR interviews. Now If a non-eu is selected after this process I believe it can be argued that the company was not able to find a suitable Irish/EU candidate.

The company is (1) at risk of hiring illegally without checking up (2) Are lying to the department about their efforts in promoting employment within Europe.

They don't distinguish, thus, they are not conscience that they should first look at for eu / Irish , even if you are better. Rather reckless. But explains an awful lot now. I was not aware of this procedure.


This of course, has absolutely nothing to do with you, and you have no reason to be sorry.

Its not the question of one's beliefs,Companies are there to do business and make money, they are not gona pay someone 30k just on the basis of nationality.

You are correct, but, they actually can't hire who ever they like. They are restricted by immigration rules.

I have no doubt that you are more than capable. Anyway, not your problem, just keep applying

P.S ; The pupose of this thread is not to offend anyone. I just want clarification of the Green Card Permits System. If anyone can help me,thanks in advance for that. Please don't make this a Words War between EU and Non- EU workers.

Your not to blame for all of this,

All of us are going through troubled times and whoever has invested his money and time in Education and improving skills should be given a fair chance.

Sorry, I have to point this out, but, Europe is for European Citizens and non EU people who have status to live and work without any restrictions, only. There is a reason why green card and work permits are in place. So, although the wrong site to do it, any complaints by EU people are legitimate. However....

Best of luck to you either way

[starbuck]

-->That is incorrect. You are intentionally and unjusifibly being paranoid. -->When that comment was stated, I clearly used the words -->"legitimately". Unless you really slow, it is not possible for you to -->make such suggestions on the basis of those posts.

The problem is you show only what you want to highlight. When you make cheap comments you ignore them with ease!!.

-->So get off the high horse or you will be kicked off.

For sure i would get off to kick your B****.


-->I am not going to apologies for any offence caused (I would If I had not -->made by myself clear) because, I made by self very clear in the first -->place before you butted in. If anything my reply to you made it crystal -->clear. Your just picking a fight and getting no where

Well, you are beyond restrain. I am not asking for apologies but asking you not to make cheap comments.

Its a big deal because most of them have earned it paying taxes and being good law abiding citizens.

-->Yes, where do I dispute that, they earned it. You were getting on your -->high course and attempting to accuse me of something, and I knew -->what you were getting at. This reply confirms my suspicions.

You don't rather can't dispute facts. But you don't acknowledge them either. You being jealous only make comments which are in bad taste.

-->All I said, was, some people had stamp 4's, and just said, move on. -->Your trying to pick a fight

Fight with you!! goodness me .. i clearly understand that fight with SH** would land me in SH**

-->Secondly, as for earning it simply because you pay tax. First of all, (i accept they did pay alot, compared to lower skilled workers) big swinging mickey, if anyone wants to work in any country, naturally, top jobs = more tax liability. Its the law , you pay tax, you have no choice. You don't pay, you don't get work. So, unless you want a medal, why bring it -->up (I already stated clearly that these people earned their rights)

Medal from you is not worth a SH** you know that!! lol! .. people in tech pay tax to earn stamp 4 .. they would not .. infact its not needed to indulge in having kids or marriage for stamp sake .. as what you have portrayed ...

You would never understand because you are not one among them.

-->Please don't get any illusion that I would ever want to be one among -->them.

Thank god!! for the second time my illusion turned to reality .

And regarding being a spokes person .. i am not a spokes person but one among them .. but that does not mean you comment on them in a derogatory manner.

Where did I ? I saw you a mile away, you were biting at the bit to try and interpret that I said anything unfairly, despite my posts showing the contrary. You attempted to misinterpret me. For that, you should be treated with contempt

Your posts showing the contrary .. your posts were implying that people in IT are getting married and having kids of a stamp 4. And now you conveniently defend your self ..

Hypocrisy .. they name is W*****G*****