British passport for baby born in India - Timeline

[pinky2012]

Hi,
My husband and me are British citizens. We applied for british passport for our Indian born baby in early February 2012. The application was sent back twice for silly reasons which wasted almost two months. At first for incorrect fee (courier fee on the website was Rs.2200 when I applied and they changed it to Rs.2100 in two days, so I paid Rs.100 more) and secondly for invalid countersigntory (a british citizen had to sign the photo of the baby. We know that person who was in the uk for 25 years and I saw the passport). Officers at the british high commission in New Delhi did not say anything about the countersignatory when they returned the application first for incorrect fee, just to delay the application for another month.
The application was accepted in the first week of April in New Delhi office. They sent it to Hong Kong and necessary checks are done in the UK. We are ringing the uk helpline everyweek and it is still under process even after 12 weeks. The timeline to get british pssport for first time applications from India was 12 weeks when I first applied, but is increased to 16 weeks now. I have to return to work in two weeks time after maternity leave and my husband has travelled to India to take the baby, our 3 year old son and me to the UK. He booked holiday in February hoping to get the passport in May and he can't change the holiday dates.
We are in absolute dilemma about what to do. I am a teacher and need to join school in the second week of July to collect books, timetable, schemes of work etc for preparations over summer holidays. If I change date of return, then I will lose my holiday pay as I have to give 3 weeks notice if I change my date of return.

Is there anyone out there who applied for british passport for baby from India? How long did it take to get the passport? The helpline says ring them by end of July or August.
Thanks for reading and your advice is much appreciated.

[Amsdoc]

Hi,
I am sorry to hear of your problems. We are in exactly the same situation as you but 1 step ahead. I can only warn you so you can make informed plans based on our ongoing horrendous experience.
We are both British citizens. Our child was born in India in January. The application was sent back once because they wanted 1 set of photocopies of all the documents we had sent them! Finally they accepted our application on March the 12th. The time for you 16 weeks will start from then. There is no point in calling the paid helpline at the moment as they are most unhelpful and will not give you any answer for 16 weeks.
We got a call from the Delhi office 2 weeks ago. The guy from there called the counter signatory and was exceptionally rude to him on the phone. So the counter signatory gave him some unsatisfactory replies following which our application is stuck. The Delhi office guy was supposed to get back to us asap as to what the next plan of action would be, but despite further calls to uk help line and "escalating" the process nothing has happened. We have changed my wife and child's tickets 3 times and looks like we might to do it again.
The uk centre told me than once it is processed and sent to them in london it will only take a max 10 days to get it back but the process is held up at our end as usual!
My advice to you would be stop calling them until 16 weeks is over as you are just wasting your money. If you are changing your ticket give it some time as you might have to change again. And lastly make sure that your counter signatory knows every small detail about you and your family.
Hope that we and you get your child's passports sorted out soon. It is after all their right!

[harshil223]

Hi,
secondly for invalid countersigntory (a british citizen had to sign the photo of the baby. We know that person who was in the uk for 25 years and I saw the passport). Officers at the british high commission in New Delhi did not say anything about the countersignatory when they returned the application first for incorrect fee, just to delay the application for another month.

Is there anyone out there who applied for british passport for baby from India? How long did it take to get the passport? The helpline says ring them by end of July or August.
Thanks for reading and your advice is much appreciated.

hi pinky2012
sorry to hear the trouble you are facing. but it makes no sense to call them before 16 weeks of time once the application is sent as that is the expected timeline.

i have not experienced the process for applying for British passport from India yet but I will do same in this month. In my case my baby is UK born and he already got citizenship certificate. So now only the passport is pending which needs to be done from India as the baby is in India at the moment.
Can you please clarify below questions related to countersignatory?
1) Should the countersignatory must be resident of the UK at the time when application is being processed?
2) How much the countersignatory should know about the child's parents? I mean what sort of questions are they asked when they get any call?

thanks in advance

[pinky2012]

Thanks for your reply. I rang the helpline again (5th time) and the lady said that the application is with the examiner. He has some queries and will contact me in 3 working days. She also noted my address and e-mail id. I will update you on any progress. Ringing the helpline costs about £6 + Rs.100 from India for international calls.

I will cancel my ticket and re-book when the passport arrives. We can also change return date once for free.

In my case, they haven't contacted the countersignatory who is a bank manager, so don't know what sort of questions will be asked.

Workplace dilemma is over- I can't return to work before the end of summer term which is 20th July. But teachers on maternity leave can return to work during holiday which means I don't need to be in school and should be paid. I managed to give the required 21days notice. I work in a secondary school and sixth form college and surely my headteacher didn't like it, but there is nothing he can do about it.

You should use Smart form for the application as the website says it is quicker.

Countersignatory - download the smart form guidance notes from the following website.

http://ukinhongkong.fco.gov.uk/en/help- ... pply/india


When you have completed the form, someone who has known You (not the child) personally for at least two years should complete and sign Section 8. That person should be a British citizen, other British national or Commonwealth citizen who is a Member of Parliament, Justice of the Peace, Minister of Religion, Bank Officer, Established Civil Servant, or professionally qualified person, e.g. Lawyer, Engineer, Doctor, School Teacher, Police Officer or a person of similar standing. Procedures include a check on the authenticity of countersignatories.

[harshil223]

Workplace dilemma is over- I can't return to work before the end of summer term which is 20th July. But teachers on maternity leave can return to work during holiday which means I don't need to be in school and should be paid. I managed to give the required 21days notice. I work in a secondary school and sixth form college and surely my headteacher didn't like it, but there is nothing he can do about it.

You should use Smart form for the application as the website says it is quicker.

good to hear that the confusion is over.

Countersignatory - download the smart form guidance notes from the following website.

http://ukinhongkong.fco.gov.uk/en/help- ... pply/india


When you have completed the form, someone who has known You (not the child) personally for at least two years should complete and sign Section 8. That person should be a British citizen, other British national or Commonwealth citizen who is a Member of Parliament, Justice of the Peace, Minister of Religion, Bank Officer, Established Civil Servant, or professionally qualified person, e.g. Lawyer, Engineer, Doctor, School Teacher, Police Officer or a person of similar standing. Procedures include a check on the authenticity of countersignatories.

thanks for the suggestion, I will try the new smart form.
only one thing I am not sure what to do is in section of providing supporting documents.

in my case, I have ILR but by wife is not settled yet, she is on her own FLR on her separate visa.
The guidance on smart form says

E. If neither parent is a British citizen, their passports or other evidence that they are “settled” in the United Kingdom* with indefinite leave to remain. If only the father is “settled” and the child was born before 1 July 2006, the father‟s full marriage certificate and evidence of termination of any previous marriages should also be supplied. Adopted children of non-British citizen parents who are “settled”, do NOT have an automatic claim to British citizenship.

whereas the guidance on C2 form notes says

E. If neither parent is a British citizen, their passports or other evidence that they are “settled” in the United Kingdom* with indefinite leave to remain. If only the father is “settled”, the father‟s full marriage certificate and evidence of termination of any previous marriages should also be supplied. Adopted children of non-British citizen parents who are “settled”, do NOT have an automatic claim to British citizenship.

don't know why the smart form guidance add the condition of child born before 1 July 2006 whereas C2 form guidance does not say it.

@pinky2012, what supporting documents did you include in your application?

[pinky2012]

We submitted the following documents along with the British passport application.

1) Both parents original Naturalisation certificates
2) copy of both parents British passports. Copy of all pages of baby’s father’s british passport attested by a solicitor in UK as he was not in India at the time of application (Note it has to be attested by a UK solicitor).
3) Parents Marriage certificate
4) Baby's local Municipal Birth Certificate
5) Mother's Delivery Discharge summary certificate from the hospital where the baby is born.
6) Mother's whole medical reports during pregnancy (including antenatal appointment letters, scan reports and any scan pictures). We included medical reports and scans from UK and India.
7) 5 family photographs with the Baby with at least one photograph showing baby with both parents and one with grandparents.
8 ) maternity leave letter from my employer


Note – It is better to pay using card to avoid return of application for incorrect fee or ring the careline before you take banker’s draft to check exchange rate + courier fee.
Make sure that baby’s photo is upto IPS standard.

[harshil223]

We submitted the following documents along with the British passport application.
...
...

thanks a lot for providing detailed answer to my query. appreciate a lot.

well, in my case I will of course have to contact BHC as neither I and my wife - both are not settled (only I am settled) nor we are naturalized. Let me see how it goes. can you please provide careline number or let me know where I can find it?

thanks

[pinky2012]

Careline Passport Information Line +44 208 082 4744

(Credit Card / Debit card Line - calls will be charged at £0.72 per minute plus VAT) 19:00 Sunday UK time - 01:30 Saturday UK time (24 hour service).

[pinky2012]

Hi Amsdoc,
I have some unpleasant news to share. Today I received a letter from British high commission in New Delhi along with all the original documents I submitted in April. My son's application is refused as they think this is a fraud case. They are happy with all the documents I submitted and the enquiries they have made in the UK. Only problem is with my countersignatory, a bank manager who is a distant relative. When the guy from BHC contacted him, he was unable to recollect my name, but he said that he signed the baby's application for british pssport.

But the refusal letter says "Your countersignatory indicated that he did not know you (baby) or your parents and he did not sign any passport application"
There is no right to appeal, only option is to e-mail our concerns.
What did you do in your case?

Thanks

Hi,
I am sorry to hear of your problems. We are in exactly the same situation as you but 1 step ahead. I can only warn you so you can make informed plans based on our ongoing horrendous experience.
We are both British citizens. Our child was born in India in January. The application was sent back once because they wanted 1 set of photocopies of all the documents we had sent them! Finally they accepted our application on March the 12th. The time for you 16 weeks will start from then. There is no point in calling the paid helpline at the moment as they are most unhelpful and will not give you any answer for 16 weeks.
We got a call from the Delhi office 2 weeks ago. The guy from there called the counter signatory and was exceptionally rude to him on the phone. So the counter signatory gave him some unsatisfactory replies following which our application is stuck. The Delhi office guy was supposed to get back to us asap as to what the next plan of action would be, but despite further calls to uk help line and "escalating" the process nothing has happened. We have changed my wife and child's tickets 3 times and looks like we might to do it again.
The uk centre told me than once it is processed and sent to them in london it will only take a max 10 days to get it back but the process is held up at our end as usual!
My advice to you would be stop calling them until 16 weeks is over as you are just wasting your money. If you are changing your ticket give it some time as you might have to change again. And lastly make sure that your counter signatory knows every small detail about you and your family.
Hope that we and you get your child's passports sorted out soon. It is after all their right!

[simsim]

Hi Pinky,
We are in exactly same situation as yours. Our daughter born in India in March. Passport application applied in April.
It returned today saying fraud because countersignatory (bank officer) didnt know the baby/parents well. If bank manager didnt know us, he shouldn;t have signed it. It also says that file is closed.
What do we do now? Haven't got a clue?
Please help us, what have you done?

Many thanks
Sim

[pinky2012]

Sorry to hear that your baby's application is refused. What I did is I got a letter from the bank manager stating that he knows me personally for 2 years and he countersigned the application form. I also got the last page of the application form countersigned by a British passport holder and also gave contact details of the gynaecologist who attended my delivery. You should e-mail FCO (using the e-mail id given in the refusal letter) with scanned copies of the above documents along with any other document you can provide. I explained what we are going through because of the delay in getting the passport in my e-mail and also attached a number of photographs of the baby with family and relatives since his birth. You can also seek help from your local MP in India or if you know anyone working at BHC in New Delhi, you can ask them if they can do anything to help you.

British parents come to India to adopt children, that is why BHC is suspicious.

If you are a british citizen, no one can deny british passport to your baby if you can provide the necessary documents. What they can do is delay it and cause some stress to you and your family. Don't worry.

If you choose another countersignatory, that person should know you well. You will get a reply from FCO within 10 working days. I have to wait until the end of next week. Then I will let you know what happened. Think peacefully, think of all options you have before you e-mail FCO. If FCO is not satisfied with your documents, then will have to apply again which will take another 4 months.

[simsim]

Many thanks for taking time to reply Pinky. Its very reassuring.
Can I please call you? I have Pmed you my number.
Please pm me your number. It will be a huge help.

Many thanks,
sim

[harshil223]

Hi Pinky,
We are in exactly same situation as yours. Our daughter born in India in March. Passport application applied in April.
It returned today saying fraud because countersignatory (bank officer) didnt know the baby/parents well. If bank manager didnt know us, he shouldn;t have signed it. It also says that file is closed.
What do we do now? Haven't got a clue?
Please help us, what have you done?

Many thanks
Sim

Hi Amsdoc,
I have some unpleasant news to share. Today I received a letter from British high commission in New Delhi along with all the original documents I submitted in April. My son's application is refused as they think this is a fraud case. They are happy with all the documents I submitted and the enquiries they have made in the UK. Only problem is with my countersignatory, a bank manager who is a distant relative. When the guy from BHC contacted him, he was unable to recollect my name, but he said that he signed the baby's application for british pssport.

But the refusal letter says "Your countersignatory indicated that he did not know you (baby) or your parents and he did not sign any passport application"
There is no right to appeal, only option is to e-mail our concerns.
What did you do in your case?

Thanks

it is very shattering news to know refusal of applications. best wishes for your followups and getting the things corrected. however it has made me afraid and uncertain of the outcome of application for my baby. only difference in my case is the baby is UK born and is already registered as British Citizen in June. But by then baby had travelled to India on Indian passport so now I will make application just to obtain UK passport required for bringing baby back here. and I will request the counter signatory to remember all details about me, my family and the baby. I have assumed that director of a limited company which is VAT registered can act as counter signatory so I will have that director's signs. Request to let me know if you think it won't be valid as well.
Any suggestions please?

Besides I read this in earlier post

The application was sent back once because they wanted 1 set of photocopies of all the documents we had sent them!

Can anyone please tell me if photocopies are required?
if yes, what needs to be photocopied?

thanks

[pinky2012]

Hi Simsim,
I think it is better to discuss issues in this forum which will be helpful for other people applying in the future. I couldn't find any information on this topic in this forum or elsewhere when I applied.

Harshi223, you must send one photocopy of all the original documents you are submitting. BHC keeps the originals and sends photocopies to the processing centre in Hong Kong. Passport is printed in the UK and sent to you by post. Original documents will be sent back from British High Commission, New Delhi.

Regarding countersigntory, you can ring careline and confirm if the person is ok. It costs only £4 to ring, otherwise the application will be sent back saying 'invalid countersignatory'.

[harshil223]

Harshi223, you must send one photocopy of all the original documents you are submitting. BHC keeps the originals and sends photocopies to the processing centre in Hong Kong. Passport is printed in the UK and sent to you by post. Original documents will be sent back from British High Commission, New Delhi.

Regarding countersigntory, you can ring careline and confirm if the person is ok. It costs only £4 to ring, otherwise the application will be sent back saying 'invalid countersignatory'.

thanks pinky2012, it seems right, better to confirm before sending the application.

[simsim]

Hi Pinky,
Thanks for your reply. My letter says that my file is closed and i have no right to appeal because counter-signatory didnt knoe me or my parents. I wonder, how they can't give me no right of appeal. Does your letter say same or is it different?
My countersignatory doesn't even remember, what was he asked when he was called? I have got a letter from him syaing that he knows us personally as suggested. Can you please check, what can he be asked if he is called again?


Thanks

[pinky2012]

Hi Simsim,
My letter says the same. If you provide all documents and BHC is happy with the enquiries made in the UK, then they will ring your countersignatory for verification. This means this is their last chance to refuse the application. When they ring the countersignatory, they won't say who is calling or where they are calling from or what is it regarding. They asked the bank manager "Did you sign any form?" What a stupid question! He signs hundreds of forms in his official capacity. He signed this form 4 months ago and couldn't recollect my name straightaway. This is the reason for refusal. I think those who apply in future should use some relative (if you trust them!) who knows every small detail about them and their family, eventhough this is against the application norm.

Simsim, your letter says counter-signatory did not know you (means the baby) or your parents (baby's parents). Ask your counter-signatory what did the passport officer ask him and what was his reply? Then you can find some explanation to e-mail the FCO. I don't think officer at the BHC will ring the counter-signatory again.

[simsim]

Hi Pinky,

Thanks for all your help. My counter-signatory bank officer dont even remember, what was he asked? He just remembers that he was called and was asked if he signed a form. I wish if I can find out what questions he can be asked if he is called again.
I sent an email to fco and I was actually surprised by the email address because it had "feedback" in the email address. I got the autoreply that they will respond in 10 working days. Are your 10 days over or not yet? I am scared for the worst because my letter says that "My file is closed and I have no right to appeal" and this being the feedback email address. Do you know any case, where they have reopened the case or there's success? Filing new application because of this means that we will waste another 4-5 months again.
I hope they consider our case and reopen the file because we are in so much stress at the moment by all these formalities and time wastage.
Where are you based in India? I am in Mumbai and couriered my application to Delhi.
Thanks again,
Sim

[simsim]

Hi Pinky,

Was wondering if you saw my earlier message. Hope you have heard good news from fco and hope its sorted for you. I can't wait for 10 days to be over.

When you get a chance, please let us know.

Many thanks,
Sim

[pinky2012]

Hi Sim,
I will let you know if there is any progress with my application. I think once the file is closed, they won't review it as the decision is final and binding. This is the info I got from the Deputy High Commissioner at Chennai. He was sympathetic, but can't help as it is under BHC New Delhi. I was advised to reapply, but I am waiting for a reply from FCO by the end of this week.

[simsim]

Hi Pinky,
Hope you get a positive note from fco. I am praying for you.
Please let me know when you hear back from fco.

Many thanks,
Sim

[simsim]

Hi Pinky,
Was wondering if you heard back from FCO? What did they say?
Please let me know.

Thanks,
Sim

[pinky2012]

I haven't got any reply from FCO. I sent them a reminder today.

[simsim]

Have you heard anything back Pinky?

Thanks

[harshil223]

Have you heard anything back Pinky?

Thanks

hello simsim, pinky2012

did you get any confirmed outcome of the process yet?
my son's application process just started so now its wait for a long duration.
i had paid fees by UK credit card and hence i could know that money is deducted on first week of August. so now i must wait for more 12-13 weeks.

did you get any successful result ?