EEA1 response may take 6 months!? (ukba told me so)

sc2012uk · Post by **sc2012uk** » Mon Jul 23, 2012 3:35 pm

Is it true that the ukba may take 6 months to respond to my EEA1 application?
I just called them and that's what the officer told me.

Post by **Jambo** » Mon Jul 23, 2012 4:30 pm

No.

See Regulation 16 (1).

sc2012uk · Post by **sc2012uk** » Mon Jul 23, 2012 4:37 pm

I told the officer that the 6 months was for eea2 but that upon eea1 they should issue the rc immediately according to EU guidelines.

Then the officer said again they DO have six months for eea1. There was a noticable lack of interest on her part to find out what was going on with my application.

"All I can say is that we received your application in May" is all I could get out of her.

What do you advise I do? Call again and quote the regulations?

Post by **Jambo** » Mon Jul 23, 2012 4:41 pm

No point to try and educate her.

Complain to NWCSU (search for the exact email address).

BTW - It's not EU guidelines but the law.

sc2012uk · Post by **sc2012uk** » Mon Jul 23, 2012 4:45 pm

I have already complained about the lack of response to my eea1 application 2 days ago so I have not put the faulty information of the ukba officer in that email.

Maybe I should write a follow up email. Or would that be to our disadvantage?

Thanks.

Post by **Jambo** » Mon Jul 23, 2012 4:58 pm

It would not be a disadvantage. You have the right to complain if the HO is not following the law.

You could complain that the customer service don't know the regulations. It doesn't need to be linked to your EEA1 application.

sc2012uk · Post by **sc2012uk** » Mon Jul 23, 2012 5:16 pm

thanks! good idea, i hadn't thought of that.

it's so easy to take everything personally when so much is at stake

fysicus · Post by **fysicus** » Mon Jul 23, 2012 7:02 pm

The strange thing is that for EEA1 and EEA3 applications the law says they should be decided as soon as possible, which is obviously subject to interpretation. In this context also notice that a Certificate of Application (for an EEA2 application) must be issued immediately, yet UKBA thinks they comply with this requirement by taking about a month to issue a CoA.
In practice EEA1 and EEA3 applications are dealt with a lot quicker than EEA2 and EEA4 applications.

Furthermore, I wouldn't really bother. There is neither a legal nor a practical necessity to have a Registration Certificate as an EEA citizen. If you are worried about the waiting time, just request your passport back and when the Registration Certificate arrives (whether it is one, two, three or even more months later) just store it in safe place.

Post by **Jambo** » Mon Jul 23, 2012 7:12 pm

For Registration certificate, regulation 16 says immediately.

For PR Confirmation, regulation 18 says ASAP.

I don't think immediately is open for interpretation but I agree the HO has their own sense of time.

sc2012uk · Post by **sc2012uk** » Mon Jul 23, 2012 7:25 pm

fysicus wrote: Furthermore, I wouldn't really bother. There is neither a legal nor a practical necessity to have a Registration Certificate as an EEA citizen.

I requested the EEA1 RC to support the EEA2 application of my partner.
Without my RC, the EEA2 application of my spouse will be refused.

fysicus · Post by **fysicus** » Mon Jul 23, 2012 7:39 pm

Sorry you are wrong. For the EEA2 application of your spouse, you need to supply the same supporting evidence as for EEA1, but you do not actually need to make a formal EEA1 application.

What many people do, is to make the EEA1 and EEA2 application simultaneously, putting everything in a single envelop, and in this way have the EEA1 completely free: no extra time needed, not even extra postage (well, maybe a few pence because of the weight of the EEA1 form).

fysicus · Post by **fysicus** » Mon Jul 23, 2012 7:46 pm

Jambo wrote:For Registration certificate, regulation 16 says immediately.

For PR Confirmation, regulation 18 says ASAP.

I don't think immediately is open for interpretation but I agree the HO has their own sense of time.

Yes you may be right; I haven't looked up the exact wording for a while. May be the wording in the original EU directive is slightly different than the transposition into UK law?

In Holland, for example, immediately is indeed interpreted literally. You have to make the application in person, and the CoA is a sticker in the passport which you get back on the same day. So even for a Residence Card application you are never without passport; and the RC itself is a plastic card (credit-card size); far superior to the UK Immigration Status Document (the silly stand-alone A4).

sc2012uk · Post by **sc2012uk** » Mon Jul 23, 2012 8:05 pm

fysicus wrote:Sorry you are wrong. For the EEA2 application of your spouse, you need to supply the same supporting evidence as for EEA1, but you do not actually need to make a formal EEA1 application.

Yes that makes sense (reading the eea2 form again).

The RC would still be useful to me in case we go back to my original EU country (Holland). An RC could serve as evidence that I claimed treaty rights succesfully in another EU country (=England) which would force my government to treat me and my spouse according to EU laws.

fysicus · Post by **fysicus** » Mon Jul 23, 2012 9:00 pm

That is true, but there are many other ways to prove this; including many documents that you get even without asking for them (contracts, payslips, bank statements, tax forms, phone bills and even supermarket till receipts, etc.). You only need to save a few of them to prove your case on return to Holland.

sc2012uk · Post by **sc2012uk** » Mon Jul 23, 2012 9:24 pm

fysicus wrote:That is true, but there are many other ways to prove this; including many documents that you get even without asking for them (contracts, payslips, bank statements, tax forms, phone bills and even supermarket till receipts, etc.). You only need to save a few of them to prove your case on return to Holland.

OK, I have all those things.
Do you think the Dutch IND will not demand me to show the English RC as proof of succesful claim of my treaty rights in the UK?

fysicus · Post by **fysicus** » Mon Jul 23, 2012 10:12 pm

I think it is rather the other way round: they prefer to see evidence from a number of different reputable sources and covering a reasonable amount of time (about six months at least).
Your Residence Certificate for example does not say anything about the length of your stay in UK

sc2012uk · Post by **sc2012uk** » Mon Jul 23, 2012 10:22 pm

fysicus wrote:I think it is rather the other way round: they prefer to see evidence from a number of different reputable sources and covering a reasonable amount of time (about six months at least).
Your Residence Certificate for example does not say anything about the length of your stay in UK

I see. Well, we DO have the Tenancy Agreement running from end march to end september, also with Council tax payments. Also stuff like water/elec/tv/internet bills, supermarket receipts from end of march 2012, and bank withdrawals.
I'm not sure wether I will need to prove I have been a qualified person in England when we submit our evidence to the IND once we're back in Holland though. Maybe my wife's UK Family Permit would help too when confronting the IND back in Holland.

My main worry about going back is that the IND will want to see evidence of me having stayed in England WHILE also having been a qualified person during that period (with specific evidence to support havig been a qualified person here). Hence my RC remarks.

sc2012uk · Post by **sc2012uk** » Tue Jul 24, 2012 12:58 pm

^That worry seems to be justified.

I was just told by a Dutch lawyer that it's unwise to try to go back to Holland without a successful EEA1 application (RC).
Proving having been a qualified person as resident in the UK for longer than 3 months is necessary if we want to be treated according to EU laws on return to Holland.
Oh well, the quest continues.

fysicus · Post by **fysicus** » Tue Jul 24, 2012 1:17 pm

That is really nonsense. Either you asked this lawyer the wrong questions or he doesn't really understand the EU rules (like many immigration lawyers in the UK as well, by the way). You are allowed to prove your stay in UK by any means that you see fit, and the absence of one specific piece of evidence cannot be used against you.

Surely having a Residence Certificate will not harm you in any way, but it is about the least important of all documents you have to collect and to prove that your stay in UK was genuine and effective. The Residence Card (EEA2) for your spouse is far more important and equally proves that the UK government was satisfied that you were exercising treaty rights here.

Now it is too late, but you should not have wasted time and effort on this separate EEA1 application. You should have applied for a Residence Card (EEA2) for your spouse instead (and optionally included your own EEA1 form in the same envelop). It would also have saved you the worries of an expiring Family Permit, as I noticed in another thread by yourself.

sc2012uk · Post by **sc2012uk** » Tue Jul 24, 2012 1:59 pm

fysicus wrote:That is really nonsense. Either you asked this lawyer the wrong questions or he doesn't really understand the EU rules (like many immigration lawyers in the UK as well, by the way).

If you speak Dutch and are interested I can give the link to the thread on another forum where the lawyer replied. He seems quite sure.

I did mention this to the lawyer after someone made me aware of it (and I guess you are basing your thoughts on this article of 2004/38/EC too):

Article 25
General provisions concerning residence documents
1. Possession of a registration certificate as referred to in Article 8, of a document certifying permanent residence, of a certificate attesting submission of an application for a family member residence card, of a residence card or of a permanent residence card, may under no circumstances be made a precondition for the exercise of a right or the completion of an administrative formality, as entitlement to rights may be attested by any other means of proof.

fysicus wrote: You should have applied for a Residence Card (EEA2) for your spouse instead (and optionally included your own EEA1 form in the same envelop).

That's exactly what we did. We submitted (a second time after they sent everything back the first time) a joint application of EEA1 and EEA2 in one enveloppe. We have been waiting for nearly 8 weeks for a response to our re-submission. The first submission was in April. The resubmission was in May.
I guess all is not lost just yet. Maybe the long wait is because they did not deny my extra evidence in the resubmission. The first time they sent our applications back after 4 weeks (and we quickly resubmitted end of May).

Post by **Directive/2004/38/EC** » Tue Jul 24, 2012 2:02 pm

Please send the link. It would be very helpful

sc2012uk · Post by **sc2012uk** » Tue Jul 24, 2012 2:20 pm

Sorry for editting my previous post on the first page (of THIS thread).....It got a bit messy but I hope you read it after my last edit where I qouted Article 25/2004/38/EC).

fysicus · Post by **fysicus** » Tue Jul 24, 2012 5:38 pm

OK, I went through this link and I did not see where Prawo explicitly says that you do need a Registration Certificate as evidence on your return to The Netherlands. He said exactly the same as I said: you have to prove that your stay in UK was genuine and effective. I also couldn't agree more with his statement that good preparation is essential! It seems to me that you came hastily and ill-prepared to UK.
His only sensible advice is to get a job as soon as you can, whatever it is. Ignore his suggestions about being self-employed or trying other EU countries. And I really see no need to get a solicitor sorting you out.

The reason why the IND is very meticulous on people like yourself, is because many people use the EU rules for the sole purpose of evading the stricter national rules. From your story I do get the impression that you are in this category. And if the IND also gets this impression, then they will make your life difficult...

sc2012uk · Post by **sc2012uk** » Tue Jul 24, 2012 6:20 pm

fysicus wrote:The reason why the IND is very meticulous on people like yourself, is because many people use the EU rules for the sole purpose of evading the stricter national rules.

You almost make it sound like it's illegal to plan to go back on our own terms. It is not.

Please refrain from putting me and my family in a corner like that, without knowledge about what is going on. I came here asking for help, not to be be made suspect on the basis of unfounded suspicions.

If we can find jobs with good incomes we will stay. That's all I can say after your semi accusation. We have to right to plan to go back whenever we want, but that does not mean we need to be labled here as doing something bad. The future of my family is at stake so things are sensitive, please remember that when you decide to make post like that.

fysicus wrote:I did not see where Prawo explicitly says that you do need a Registration Certificate as evidence on your return to The Netherlands

he did not say that literally but he clearly is of the opinion that EEA1 should be succesful before thinking of returning

I know we will be successful in getting eea1 and eea2 for the simple reason that our breath will be long enough and we are allowed to re-submit our applications.

anyway, thanks.

Post by **Jambo** » Tue Jul 24, 2012 6:55 pm

I'm not familiar with IND regulations but the UKBA don't recognised job seeking as exercising treaty rights for the purpose of a returning resident. Only employment is accepted. I suggest you confirm IND don't hold a similar view.

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EEA1 response may take 6 months!? (ukba told me so)

EEA1 response may take 6 months!? (ukba told me so)