Shengen Visa for my Non EU Wife

[kikijon1]

The purpose of the following post is that it might help others considering the EU route, and to get information from those who have done it. Mine is an ongoing process so I will add to this as I get results good or bad.

This is a learning process for me and everyday I get new info which sometimes conflicts with older info.

I am a British citizen, my wife is Indonesian, we have 3 children with dual nationality, the 2 eldest aged 5 and 6 are in the EU with me, we applied for settlement twice and this was refused on funds, although my income is just over 21 k per year!! So decided to take the EU route, I found a small place in France to rent, and asked my wife to apply for the Shengen visa as the family member of a EU citizen so we could meet in Greece, spend a week there on holiday before going on to France.

My wife went to the Greek embassy with passports, copys of mine and the kids, our Indonesian marriage certificate, the application form and sponsor letter, the visa officer was very helpful but told my wife he would need to see that the marriage has been registered and legalized in the UK, and that it would also need to be stamped at the British consulate in Indonesia. I called the foreign and commonwealth office who said they can only legalize a photocopy of the certificate, around 34 pounds plus 6 for postage, but first it must be notarised, about another 100 pound.

Also my wife needs to make a family card in Indonesia, not so easy as I am non Indonesian, first hurdle to get around, then the Greek visa officer said I must also get a family registration document from the UK, I have never heard of this, but my name will be at the top followed by my wife and then my kids, and there will be a family registration number (does anyone else know of this) and where does one get it from??

My wife must also get all the documents she holds, stamped, notarised, and confirmed as legal documents by the civil office in Indonesia.

I must also re write my sponsor letter and get it stamped at the Greek embassy in France. As you see so far the process has it's own challenges and I will keep you up to date as things progress, so anyone thinking to do the same, start working on those docs now.

[kikijon1]

Update: Just after posting I received a text message from the Greek visa officer in Jakarta he stated: and this is copied as he wrote: we require 1) Official paper with protocol number from the competent office in UK that state recognise your marriage and its valid according to law of the country. 2) if you dont know better to contact consulate UK in France and ask about the status of marriage between EU citizen and Non EU citizen. Hope can make it.

Can anyone clear this up .. thanks

[mcovet]

One thing I know for sure is that the Greeks cannot demand that u bring cofirmation that UK recognises the Indonesian certificate of marriage. The Greeks either reconise certificates issued in indonesia or they don't! Would they ask an Indonesian married couple who never went abroad and are applying for a Schengen visa to legalise their certificate in some 3rd country? Absolute bullocks!

Basically, ur wife has to go to a notary public in Indonesia and have the marriage certificate translated and notarised as true translatiom by the notary public. Then that translation will need to be legalised (confirmed that it was issued by a public authority and the notary public is a recognised dude) which will involve two certifications: one from an Indonesian relevant authority (call the Ministry of Foreign Affairs in Jakarta or google it) and, secondly, the Greek embassy in Indonesia will need to stamp it and confirm its legalisation. Once the marriage certificate is legalised, you will need to prove you, the husband, are an EEA national. Once it's been proven, the rules of Directive 2004/38 come into play which says that your wife can join/travel with you WITHOUT a visa, or visa issued for free, to another EEA country, of which you are not a national (basically, except the Uk).

I would apply with legalised marriage certificate and include a covering letter pointing out their request for some Uk legalisation is illegal and you will be suing their donkeys off if they kick u around like a ball.

If they doubt the legality of the document, the legalisation process should clear that up, but to request some authorisation in the UK? Wtf

[kikijon1]

but to request some authorisation in the UK? Wtf

mcovet, you are right, and having just got off the phone from the fco, all they could suggest is my wife go to the British consulate in Jakarta to seek advise as they may have already come across a similar situation.
As for all the docs, they are in the process of being legalised and I am also printing some things off that state: There are three important things to be aware of:

If you live in an English speaking country and your certificate is not in English it should be accompanied by an official translation or a translation from a recognised translation agency.
Not all of these countries will register marriages unless at least one party to the marriages is a citizen.
Not all countries, in fact only a few countries, will recognise and legally register religious ceremonies of marriage
Also note that the only certificate you will have will be the one from the country where you were married. You cannot obtain a marriage certificate issued by your home country. However this marriage certificate will be equal in every respect to one issued in your home country.

[CHEEKA]

I applied at the French consulate abroad for a schengen visa . Your main journey is there , you should apply there , they know the law there , seems like the greeks dont know much there .

For a schengen visa you need passport and marriage certificate.

Ask the British consulate for an attestation that says they do not recognise foreign marriages abroad , but for administrative purposes they accept the marriage. 60 pounds for the certificate ,they will issue it in French. European countries want to make sure there is not a problem with your marriage ,i.e. bigamy etc . It is just a formality.

The French have "livret de famile" , family registration certificate , but they are well aware the British do not , so they do not ask for it.

The only problem I encountered was that the French wanted my "residence permit " for Morocco , and I told them as I was not legally required to have one I did not have one, I told them I left and re-entered the country every 3 months as was required by law , so they asked for a photocopy of every page of my passport and I obliged and received the visa the next day. (They might have been checking the validity of our marriage?).

We also applied at the Spainsh consulate and they did not know much about it and charged us 60 pounds and then refused.

I recommend trying the French , they know their stuff , you might be quite a while at the Greek embassy , as you intend to spend most of your time in France you should be applying to them .

You could keep trying with the Greeks , but who knows how long it will take.

Good luck

[mcovet]

That's right, under UK law, one cannot get married if already married (ur marriage in Indonesia is the legal impediment to registering ur marriage in te uk). And yes, marriage conducted in accordance with the indonesian law must be recognised by every country as legal. I would not even bother contacting the British FCO as their certification could be valid for an application to come to the Uk but nothing to do with Greece.

Incompetent morons, administrative excitement, that's what I call it, always trying to make life difficult for people. Are you sure they understood you got married in Indonesia and not Uk? I cant believe they could ask u to produce those papers. How on earth can FCO in the Uk legalise a foreign marriage certificate? They cannot do it without the indonesian authorities.

[EUsmileWEallsmile]

The purpose of the following post is that it might help others considering the EU route, and to get information from those who have done it. Mine is an ongoing process so I will add to this as I get results good or bad.

This is a learning process for me and everyday I get new info which sometimes conflicts with older info.

I am a British citizen, my wife is Indonesian, we have 3 children with dual nationality, the 2 eldest aged 5 and 6 are in the EU with me, we applied for settlement twice and this was refused on funds, although my income is just over 21 k per year!! So decided to take the EU route, I found a small place in France to rent, and asked my wife to apply for the Shengen visa as the family member of a EU citizen so we could meet in Greece, spend a week there on holiday before going on to France.

My wife went to the Greek embassy with passports, copys of mine and the kids, our Indonesian marriage certificate, the application form and sponsor letter, the visa officer was very helpful but told my wife he would need to see that the marriage has been registered and legalized in the UK, and that it would also need to be stamped at the British consulate in Indonesia. I called the foreign and commonwealth office who said they can only legalize a photocopy of the certificate, around 34 pounds plus 6 for postage, but first it must be notarised, about another 100 pound.

Also my wife needs to make a family card in Indonesia, not so easy as I am non Indonesian, first hurdle to get around, then the Greek visa officer said I must also get a family registration document from the UK, I have never heard of this, but my name will be at the top followed by my wife and then my kids, and there will be a family registration number (does anyone else know of this) and where does one get it from??

My wife must also get all the documents she holds, stamped, notarised, and confirmed as legal documents by the civil office in Indonesia.

I must also re write my sponsor letter and get it stamped at the Greek embassy in France. As you see so far the process has it's own challenges and I will keep you up to date as things progress, so anyone thinking to do the same, start working on those docs now.

Firstly, can I strongly suggest that you make up your mind as to which EU country you wish to visit or live in. Once you are in Shengen, it is easy to move around. Depending on where you go, the procedure can be more or less complicated.

Marriages conducted in foreign countries may need to be legalised or apostalised in order to be accepted in a third country. (I am speaking in general terms because the specifics will vary from country to country).

If both the country where the marriage took place and the country in which the certificate is to be used are signatories to the Hague convention, then a more simplified apostolised procedure can be used. You need to find that out.

If, not a more complicated legalisation procedure may need to be undertaken. This basically involves translating the marriage certificate to the language of the country of destination. Then having the translated certificate and original certificate legalised by the country where the marriage took place - this will be done in the country that issued the certificate and essentially the certificate will be stamped as being genuine. You now have a legalised document that may be used in the third country. On top of that, you may need to have the legalised copy stamped and verified by the embassy of the country you intend to go to in the country that issued the certificate. Complicated, eh?

The UK, rather helpfully, does not require this and simply accepts translations of certificates. Much of the information on the FCO site relates to British citizens who wish to use their Indonesian certificate in the UK. This doesn't apply to you.

These links may help, but I'm afraid you will need to do your own research for the specifics (google legalisation of marriage certificates for use abroad).

http://ukinindonesia.fco.gov.uk/en/help ... -indonesia
http://www.indonesianembassy.org.uk/con ... rried.html

[CHEEKA]

I re read your post and I see a future potential problem.
Once you have your Schengen visa , you then need to leave the
country together , or you need to get a letter from the local
marie in France to prove that you are residing in France , a letter of invitation if you like.

Your wife cannot travel with the visa alone , you need to be there or the letter needs to be there.
I do not think the Greek authorities would let your wife into Greece with her French letter of invitation.

I would concentrate on the visa first and then worry about the holiday , just my opinion.

I am not 100 % sure , it just seems like logic to me ......
Thoughts anyone ?

[EUsmileWEallsmile]

The basic concept is that to avail of the directive, the non-EU family member needs to be accompanying or joining the EU national.

[kikijon1]

Thanks for the input so far, it is useful as it gives me ideas, and today my wife heard from the Visa officer who told her to put the papers in on Monday, and once he has passed them her passport will be forwarded to Belgium!!! I can't understand why to Belgium but this is what he has told her, I thought the visa's were issued at the consulate.

[CHEEKA]

I thought the visa's were issued at the consulate.

I believe they are...........

[EUsmileWEallsmile]

Thanks for the input so far, it is useful as it gives me ideas, and today my wife heard from the Visa officer who told her to put the papers in on Monday, and once he has passed them her passport will be forwarded to Belgium!!! I can't understand why to Belgium but this is what he has told her, I thought the visa's were issued at the consulate.

Do you mean the Greek embassy or are you trying somewhere else now?

[kikijon1]

Do you mean the Greek embassy or are you trying somewhere else now?

The Greek Embassy, The visa officer of the Greek embassy has said that her passport will be sent to Belgium for the visa to be attached!! this seems odd as I thought it would have been attached to her passport at the Greek Emb in Jakarta.

[kikijon1]

I re read your post and I see a future potential problem.
Once you have your Schengen visa , you then need to leave the
country together

Yes our intention is to travel from Greece together, which will hopefully make things much simpler.

[CHEEKA]

I re read your post and I see a future potential problem.
Once you have your Schengen visa , you then need to leave the
country together

Yes our intention is to travel from Greece together, which will hopefully make things much simpler.

Sorry I was not clearer . A Schengen visa is NOT like other visas.

Your wife cannot get INTO Greece with only a schengen visa..

For your wife to travel with a Schengen visa , she needs to be with you or have an official letter from the authorities in the country she is travelling TO , stating that she will be joining you in that country.

Leaving the country is not the problem , she needs to get there first.

i.e. For her to travel TO Greece , you both need to travel together , or she needs an official letter from the Greek authorities stating that she will be joining you there , or she can apply for a full Greek visa , not a schengen visa. She would need the Schengen visa for France tho.

I hope this is clearer . She cannot travel alone with a Schengen visa .
Either you need to be there , or you need an offical letter from the authorities of the country she is travelling to.(If she is travelling directly to France you can get one at the local marie)

You need to leave Indonesia toghether , NOT GREECE.

Hope this helps.

[kikijon1]

I re read your post and I see a future potential problem.
Once you have your Schengen visa , you then need to leave the
country together

Yes our intention is to travel from Greece together, which will hopefully make things much simpler.

Sorry I was not clearer . A Schengen visa is NOT like other visas.

Your wife cannot get INTO Greece with only a schengen visa..

For your wife to travel with a Schengen visa , she needs to be with you or have an official letter from the authorities in the country she is travelling TO , stating that she will be joining you in that country.

Leaving the country is not the problem , she needs to get there first.

i.e. For her to travel TO Greece , you both need to travel together , or she needs an official letter from the Greek authorities stating that she will be joining you there , or she can apply for a full Greek visa , not a schengen visa.

I see.. ok then I guess I will return to Indonesia and travel with her if that is the case, I have no problem with that. Thanks for that information.

[CHEEKA]

I re read your post and I see a future potential problem.
Once you have your Schengen visa , you then need to leave the
country together

Yes our intention is to travel from Greece together, which will hopefully make things much simpler.

Sorry I was not clearer . A Schengen visa is NOT like other visas.

Your wife cannot get INTO Greece with only a schengen visa..

For your wife to travel with a Schengen visa , she needs to be with you or have an official letter from the authorities in the country she is travelling TO , stating that she will be joining you in that country.

Leaving the country is not the problem , she needs to get there first.

i.e. For her to travel TO Greece , you both need to travel together , or she needs an official letter from the Greek authorities stating that she will be joining you there , or she can apply for a full Greek visa , not a schengen visa.

I see.. ok then I guess I will return to Indonesia and travel with her if that is the case, I have no problem with that. Thanks for that information.

No problem , you could take your lease agreement in France (attestation d'hebergement) to the local marie and explain what you need and they will give you one , she would be able to travel to France with that and the visa without you , but I dont think she can use it to travel to Greece on her own .

Good luck

[CHEEKA]

.[/quote]

Thanks for that information.[/quote]

welcome, keep you marriage certificate with your passport when travelling together, save you digging about in the suitcases for it.

[kikijon1]

I will do, but I am still confused as to why the passport will go to belgium, I am not sure if it because they process them there or something!

[CHEEKA]

I really have no clue...... They should have only taken it quick to put the visa on it......

[mcovet]

bottom line, if your wife gets a visa, that's it, don't worry about anything else, speaking from practice, NOONE EVER asks whether the visa was issued and applicant still eligible. No letter etc, visa is enough, don't overcomplicate.

[CHEEKA]

bottom line, if your wife gets a visa, that's it, don't worry about anything else, speaking from practice, NOONE EVER asks whether the visa was issued and applicant still eligible. No letter etc, visa is enough, don't overcomplicate.

A visa is not enough to travel with......

Speaking from previous personal experience, its not enough.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Schengen_v ... engen_visa

Entry conditions for third-country nationals

A Schengen visa or a visa exemption does not, in and of itself, entitle a traveller to enter the Schengen Area. The Schengen Borders Code lists requirements which third-country nationals must meet to be allowed into the Schengen Area. For this purpose, a third-country national is a person who does not enjoy the right of free movement (i.e. a person who is not an EU, EEA or Swiss citizen, nor a family member of such a person who is in possession of a residence permit with the indication "family member of an EU citizen" or "family member of an EEA or CH citizen").

The requirements for entry are as follows
The third-country national is in possession of a valid travel document or documents authorising them to cross the border; the acceptance of travel documents for this purpose remains within the domain of the member states;


etc.

Do some research and see what you find

[CHEEKA]

http://europa.eu/youreurope/citizens/tr ... dex_en.htm

If you are an EU national but your family members are not, they can accompany or join you in another EU country.

[mcovet]

bottom line, if your wife gets a visa, that's it, don't worry about anything else, speaking from practice, NOONE EVER asks whether the visa was issued and applicant still eligible. No letter etc, visa is enough, don't overcomplicate.

A visa is not enough to travel with......

Speaking from previous personal experience, its not enough.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Schengen_v ... engen_visa

Entry conditions for third-country nationals

A Schengen visa or a visa exemption does not, in and of itself, entitle a traveller to enter the Schengen Area. The Schengen Borders Code lists requirements which third-country nationals must meet to be allowed into the Schengen Area. For this purpose, a third-country national is a person who does not enjoy the right of free movement (i.e. a person who is not an EU, EEA or Swiss citizen, nor a family member of such a person who is in possession of a residence permit with the indication "family member of an EU citizen" or "family member of an EEA or CH citizen").

The requirements for entry are as follows
The third-country national is in possession of a valid travel document or documents authorising them to cross the border; the acceptance of travel documents for this purpose remains within the domain of the member states;


etc.

Do some research and see what you find

I have done enough research and can repeat my assertion. If she gets a Schengen visa, she will be able to board a plane, if she arrives in Greece, the Greeks cannot get her out as, in accordance with the Directive 2004/38, they must allow her an opportunity to prove by any other means that she is a family member of an EEA national. That is IF someone asks her questions. In my whole travelling life and those of my clients noone has been in any shape or form inconvenienced at the border.

Therefore, once she gets a Schengen visa, the rest is easy, you worry the OP unnecessarily, and by the way, wikipedia is the last source I would resort to when quoting legislation or trying to prove my point, you lose credibility straight away.

[CHEEKA]

bottom line, if your wife gets a visa, that's it, don't worry about anything else, speaking from practice, NOONE EVER asks whether the visa was issued and applicant still eligible. No letter etc, visa is enough, don't overcomplicate.

A visa is not enough to travel with......

Speaking from previous personal experience, its not enough.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Schengen_v ... engen_visa

Entry conditions for third-country nationals

A Schengen visa or a visa exemption does not, in and of itself, entitle a traveller to enter the Schengen Area. The Schengen Borders Code lists requirements which third-country nationals must meet to be allowed into the Schengen Area. For this purpose, a third-country national is a person who does not enjoy the right of free movement (i.e. a person who is not an EU, EEA or Swiss citizen, nor a family member of such a person who is in possession of a residence permit with the indication "family member of an EU citizen" or "family member of an EEA or CH citizen").

The requirements for entry are as follows
The third-country national is in possession of a valid travel document or documents authorising them to cross the border; the acceptance of travel documents for this purpose remains within the domain of the member states;


etc.

Do some research and see what you find

I have done enough research and can repeat my assertion. If she gets a Schengen visa, she will be able to board a plane, if she arrives in Greece, the Greeks cannot get her out as, in accordance with the Directive 2004/38, they must allow her an opportunity to prove by any other means that she is a family member of an EEA national. That is IF someone asks her questions. In my whole travelling life and those of my clients noone has been in any shape or form inconvenienced at the border.

Therefore, once she gets a Schengen visa, the rest is easy, you worry the OP unnecessarily, and by the way, wikipedia is the last source I would resort to when quoting legislation or trying to prove my point, you lose credibility straight away.

As per the directive , she has to PROVE she is joining the family member , if wiki is not goooooood enough for you , will the european site be good enough for you ?

http://europa.eu/youreurope/citizens/tr ... dex_en.htm