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Schengan Visa application from Pakistan, refusal. Options?

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Moderators: Casa, John, ChetanOjha, archigabe, CR001, push, JAJ, ca.funke, Amber, zimba, vinny, Obie, EUsmileWEallsmile, batleykhan, meself2, geriatrix, Administrator

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SRAQAI
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Schengan Visa application from Pakistan, refusal. Options?

Post by SRAQAI » Wed Aug 08, 2012 5:40 pm

As some know, my husband visa was refused, by the French Embassy in Islamabad which was applied for under the Directive 2004/38/EC. It was refused on the grounds of article 32 (ii) “The purpose and the conditions of the proposed visit have not been justified” (Visa Code, Resolution (EC) No. 810/2009 of the European Parliament and the Council of 13th July).

This EU regulation, under which they refused the application under, also states:

“The provisions of this regulation shall apply to any third country national, who must be in possession of a visa when crossing the external borders of the member states pursuant to council regulation (EC) no 539/2001 March 2001 listing the third countries whose nationals are exempt from that requirement, without prejudice to:

(a) The rights of free movement enjoyed by third-country nationals who are family members of citizens of the Union;

(b) The equivalent rights enjoyed by third country nationals and their family members, who, under agreements between the community and its member states, on the one hand, and the third countries on the other, enjoy rights of free movement equivalent to those of Union citizens and members of their families.

So, clearly the French Embassy are playing games. They say on the notice of refusal, that we can appeal within 2 months of the date of notice. They say that we have to lodge the appeal to an address in France.

Obviously, the regulation under which this was refused, does not apply to us, but our application was still prejudiced, even though the regulation they refused it under clearly states that it will not act in prejudice to freedom of movement rights.

I dont want to go through an appeal process. Can we re-apply again at the French Embassy in Islamabad, whilst clearly showing them that the Visa Code stipulates that it is not apply to us? We are traveling second week of September and I am currently in Pakistan with my husband, wanting to get this thing sorted so we can travel to France together. Will the French Embassy accept another application or do we HAVE to appeal? I am not going to bother going down the UK Solvit route - no point. I have contacted the Your Europe advise and am waiting their response. Any suggestions??

Thanks :)

Obie
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Post by Obie » Wed Aug 08, 2012 6:59 pm

I have decided to move this topic to the European Forum as i believe you will get lots of responce from here.

I believe the reasons given for refusal, were clearly wrong for the reasons you correctly you stated.
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EUsmileWEallsmile
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Re: Schengan Visa application from Pakistan, refusal. Optio

Post by EUsmileWEallsmile » Wed Aug 08, 2012 9:17 pm

SRAQAI wrote:As some know, my husband visa was refused, by the French Embassy in Islamabad which was applied for under the Directive 2004/38/EC. It was refused on the grounds of article 32 (ii) “The purpose and the conditions of the proposed visit have not been justified” (Visa Code, Resolution (EC) No. 810/2009 of the European Parliament and the Council of 13th July).

This EU regulation, under which they refused the application under, also states:

“The provisions of this regulation shall apply to any third country national, who must be in possession of a visa when crossing the external borders of the member states pursuant to council regulation (EC) no 539/2001 March 2001 listing the third countries whose nationals are exempt from that requirement, without prejudice to:

(a) The rights of free movement enjoyed by third-country nationals who are family members of citizens of the Union;

(b) The equivalent rights enjoyed by third country nationals and their family members, who, under agreements between the community and its member states, on the one hand, and the third countries on the other, enjoy rights of free movement equivalent to those of Union citizens and members of their families.

So, clearly the French Embassy are playing games. They say on the notice of refusal, that we can appeal within 2 months of the date of notice. They say that we have to lodge the appeal to an address in France.

Obviously, the regulation under which this was refused, does not apply to us, but our application was still prejudiced, even though the regulation they refused it under clearly states that it will not act in prejudice to freedom of movement rights.

I dont want to go through an appeal process. Can we re-apply again at the French Embassy in Islamabad, whilst clearly showing them that the Visa Code stipulates that it is not apply to us? We are traveling second week of September and I am currently in Pakistan with my husband, wanting to get this thing sorted so we can travel to France together. Will the French Embassy accept another application or do we HAVE to appeal? I am not going to bother going down the UK Solvit route - no point. I have contacted the Your Europe advise and am waiting their response. Any suggestions??

Thanks :)
You really have been given the run around by them. The decision maker has appears to have misunderstood. There is a very good document here, which explains the application process (I know you know the rules, but you could print it out and highlight the relevant sections).

http://ec.europa.eu/home-affairs/polici ... 620_en.pdf

http://ec.europa.eu/home-affairs/polici ... 620_fr.pdf

I would be inclined to appeal and re-apply.

Directive/2004/38/EC
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Post by Directive/2004/38/EC » Thu Aug 09, 2012 4:09 am

What exactly was submitted with the first application? A simple Schengen application form with the (*)ed questions not answered? Was there a cover letter, and what did it say?

SRAQAI
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Re: Schengan Visa application from Pakistan, refusal. Optio

Post by SRAQAI » Thu Aug 09, 2012 9:45 am

EUsmileWEallsmile wrote:
SRAQAI wrote:As some know, my husband visa was refused, by the French Embassy in Islamabad which was applied for under the Directive 2004/38/EC. It was refused on the grounds of article 32 (ii) “The purpose and the conditions of the proposed visit have not been justified” (Visa Code, Resolution (EC) No. 810/2009 of the European Parliament and the Council of 13th July).

This EU regulation, under which they refused the application under, also states:

“The provisions of this regulation shall apply to any third country national, who must be in possession of a visa when crossing the external borders of the member states pursuant to council regulation (EC) no 539/2001 March 2001 listing the third countries whose nationals are exempt from that requirement, without prejudice to:

(a) The rights of free movement enjoyed by third-country nationals who are family members of citizens of the Union;

(b) The equivalent rights enjoyed by third country nationals and their family members, who, under agreements between the community and its member states, on the one hand, and the third countries on the other, enjoy rights of free movement equivalent to those of Union citizens and members of their families.

So, clearly the French Embassy are playing games. They say on the notice of refusal, that we can appeal within 2 months of the date of notice. They say that we have to lodge the appeal to an address in France.

Obviously, the regulation under which this was refused, does not apply to us, but our application was still prejudiced, even though the regulation they refused it under clearly states that it will not act in prejudice to freedom of movement rights.

I dont want to go through an appeal process. Can we re-apply again at the French Embassy in Islamabad, whilst clearly showing them that the Visa Code stipulates that it is not apply to us? We are traveling second week of September and I am currently in Pakistan with my husband, wanting to get this thing sorted so we can travel to France together. Will the French Embassy accept another application or do we HAVE to appeal? I am not going to bother going down the UK Solvit route - no point. I have contacted the Your Europe advise and am waiting their response. Any suggestions??

Thanks :)
You really have been given the run around by them. The decision maker has appears to have misunderstood. There is a very good document here, which explains the application process (I know you know the rules, but you could print it out and highlight the relevant sections).

http://ec.europa.eu/home-affairs/polici ... 620_en.pdf

http://ec.europa.eu/home-affairs/polici ... 620_fr.pdf

I would be inclined to appeal and re-apply.
Thanks for the links, Emillie, ill certainly print those and and do some highlighting! Now that I am in Pakistan, we are going to try and get another appointment at the Embassy and re-apply, and mail in an appeal - but I heard these appeals take up to 2 months. Ridiculous! :(

SRAQAI
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Joined: Thu Jul 07, 2011 9:33 pm

Post by SRAQAI » Thu Aug 09, 2012 10:02 am

Directive/2004/38/EC wrote:What exactly was submitted with the first application? A simple Schengen application form with the (*)ed questions not answered? Was there a cover letter, and what did it say?
Yes, I wrote a cover letter and husband filled out the visa application form, leaving out the parts with the (*). This is what the cover letter said:


Dear Sir/Madam,


I am writing this letter, in support of my husband’s Schengan visa application, which he is applying for under the EU Directive 2004/38/EC. My husband, (name removed) attempted to apply for a visa last year, however the French Embassy in Islamabad treated my husband’s application for the visa outside the context of a this EU Directive. I am a British Citizen and I will be traveling to France this summer and my husband, (name removed), will be meeting me there from Pakistan. I will be traveling to Paris from London. Due to the fact that the French Embassy in Islamabad had been in breach of the EU Directive when my husband, (name removed), attempted to apply for a visa last year, I had to contact the EU Commission’s Solvit team here in the UK. By the time the issue was resolved, it was too late and we could not travel to France.

My husband and I have also had problems obtaining an appointment from the French Embassy in Islamabad, due to the actions of your third party agent namely, Gerry’s. They refused to lodge my husband’s application under the Directive 2004/38/EC, since they are unaware of this directive. Until recently, I hadn’t had an adequate response, when requesting an appointment from the French Embassy in Islamabad for my husband. Instead, I had to contact the French Embassy in London, in order to get an appointment date. Your third party representative in Lahore, ‘Gerry’s’ were in breach of EU Law for not giving my husband, (name removed), the opportunity to lodge an application for an entry visa to France under this said Directive. This action impedes my husband’s legal rights, under EU Law for freedom of movement within France and the European Union. As a consequence, I have submitted a formal complaint to the European Ombudsman for Maladministration.

My husband, (name removed), during his appointment will present to you documents that are adequate, under this Directive, for the issue of his Schengan visa. The documents that he has submitted with his application include:

1. Original marriage certificate in Urdu and French translated by Alliance Francaise
2. Evidence that I, myself will be traveling to France from London (travel booking)
3. A photocopy of my passport
4. A letter from a legal caseworker, outlining the EU Directive
5. Address of the hotel, where we plan to stay

Under the Directive 2004/38/EC, these are the only documents that are required, in order to have an entry visa supplied to a spouse of an EU Citizen. Under this Directive, we are not required to have booked flight tickets or hotel accommodation, however for your convenience; my husband will supply you with the address of the hotel where we will be staying. We will not take the risk of loosing money by booking flight tickets and hotel accommodation, without a visa in hand. I hope that my husband’s visa can be issued as soon as possible, within the context of this Directive and I appreciate your cooperation.

I look forward to hearing a positive result to my husband application, for his right of freedom of movement within France and the EU.


Regards,


(name removed)

The letter from the legal caseworker also outlined French domestic law, under which non-EU Spouses of EU Citizens have rights of freedom of movement within France, as this Directive has been incorporated into French law. The French Embassy know what they are doing, they are putting us through the runaround by purpose, unfortunately, this is the kind of treatment that citizens from countries such as Pakistan have to go through, its quite normal here. This would never have happened or been tolerated in the UK.

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Post by Directive/2004/38/EC » Thu Aug 09, 2012 11:54 am

Is that your new cover letter or the one for the recent refusal?

SRAQAI
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Post by SRAQAI » Fri Aug 10, 2012 1:21 pm

Directive/2004/38/EC wrote:Is that your new cover letter or the one for the recent refusal?
The one I submitted with the application that resulted in a refusal :(

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Post by Directive/2004/38/EC » Sat Aug 11, 2012 3:15 am

Have you gone through the french law here http://eumovement.wordpress.com/eu-coun ... fo-france/

Also, have you looked through the Schengen documents that both EUsmileWEallsmile and I pointed you to? You might find it more useful to quote from those in addition to the Directive itself.

SRAQAI
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Post by SRAQAI » Sun Aug 12, 2012 1:42 am

Directive/2004/38/EC wrote:Have you gone through the french law here http://eumovement.wordpress.com/eu-coun ... fo-france/

Also, have you looked through the Schengen documents that both EUsmileWEallsmile and I pointed you to? You might find it more useful to quote from those in addition to the Directive itself.
Yes, the domestic French law pertaining to the rights of non-EU Spouses was quoted as well in the letter written by my legal caseworker. This was also submitted along with the application, which was rejected. It was a 3 page letter written in French.

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