EEA FP Renewal + Multiple entry_exit without EEA national

[habibcs]

Hi All,

Thanks for this great forum and helpful experts!

My Queries

Can we renew "EEA Family Permit" while staying in UK (which means staying in UK for more than 6 months)?

Asking this because I am visa-national and my spouse EEA national is expected to leave UK to her home country due to medical reasons, leaving me behind in UK; and later I will need to revisit her time to time (every month), so it is better that I should not apply for RC (EEA2) because it will block my passport while I must travel In and Out of UK without my EEA national spouse on EEA_FP.
I have a permanent job in London but now initially on a 6 months probation.

My EEA_FP is issued on the basis that I will travel to UK accompanied with my EEA spouse. Will I be able to travel out and then re-enter UK without EEA-national on EEA_FP? While first time I enter in UK along with my spouse as this is the requirement. Note that meanwhile I hold the residence visa of EEA national's country and it wont expire in this duration (and I intend to live in UK since I have a permanent job in London)

Thanks

[1878]

As far as I know you cannot renew your EEA FP inside the UK.

[EUsmileWEallsmile]

Hi All,

Thanks for this great forum and helpful experts!

My Queries

Can we renew "EEA Family Permit" while staying in UK (which means staying in UK for more than 6 months)?

Asking this because I am visa-national and my spouse EEA national is expected to leave UK to her home country due to medical reasons, leaving me behind in UK; and later I will need to revisit her time to time (every month), so it is better that I should not apply for RC (EEA2) because it will block my passport while I must travel In and Out of UK without my EEA national spouse on EEA_FP.
I have a permanent job in London but now initially on a 6 months probation.

My EEA_FP is issued on the basis that I will travel to UK accompanied with my EEA spouse. Will I be able to travel out and then re-enter UK without EEA-national on EEA_FP? While first time I enter in UK along with my spouse as this is the requirement. Note that meanwhile I hold the residence visa of EEA national's country and it wont expire in this duration (and I intend to live in UK since I have a permanent job in London)

Thanks

I'm sorry to hear about your wife's problems.

What is she doing in the UK? She needs to be a worker, self-sufficient, student. She can be absent from the UK for upto 6 months (or even a year in the case of illness) without affecting residency, but she must have been exercising treaty rights.

You can travel in and out on a family permit until it expires. Thereafter you will need a new one (abroad) or have your residence card (in country). You can apply for a residence card and request your passport back.

[Directive/2004/38/EC]

Is your spouse leaving the UK temporarily?

[jotter]

Does your spouse have an EU ID card additionally to her passport? If so, you could consider applying for EEA2. She would have to hand in her passport but could still travel home on her EU ID card. For you, though, I guess you'd have to wait for the application to be processed before travelling to visit her. At least then, though, you'd be all set for 5 years.

[1878]

Hi All,

Thanks for this great forum and helpful experts!

My Queries

Can we renew "EEA Family Permit" while staying in UK (which means staying in UK for more than 6 months)?

Asking this because I am visa-national and my spouse EEA national is expected to leave UK to her home country due to medical reasons, leaving me behind in UK; and later I will need to revisit her time to time (every month), so it is better that I should not apply for RC (EEA2) because it will block my passport while I must travel In and Out of UK without my EEA national spouse on EEA_FP.
I have a permanent job in London but now initially on a 6 months probation.

My EEA_FP is issued on the basis that I will travel to UK accompanied with my EEA spouse. Will I be able to travel out and then re-enter UK without EEA-national on EEA_FP? While first time I enter in UK along with my spouse as this is the requirement. Note that meanwhile I hold the residence visa of EEA national's country and it wont expire in this duration (and I intend to live in UK since I have a permanent job in London)

Thanks

I'm sorry to hear about your wife's problems.

What is she doing in the UK? She needs to be a worker, self-sufficient, student. She can be absent from the UK for upto 6 months (or even a year in the case of illness) without affecting residency, but she must have been exercising treaty rights.

You can travel in and out on a family permit until it expires. Thereafter you will need a new one (abroad) or have your residence card (in country). You can apply for a residence card and request your passport back.

Can't you travel on expired EEA FP as long as the EEA national is exercising treaty rights in the UK and you can prove this along with marriage certificate?

[EUsmileWEallsmile]

Can't you travel on expired EEA FP as long as the EEA national is exercising treaty rights in the UK and you can prove this along with marriage certificate?

Yes if you can get to a border, no if you can't get on a plane.

[1878]

I think you can enhance this possibility if you check in online and only bring hand luggage. In most cases they will only check your passport right before entry on the plane. I have never experienced that they check visa here but mainly check that your name in your passport and on the ticket corresponds.

I have only experienced that they check visa on the gate when I traveled from Paris to London, this was a securitas officer who did.

[EUsmileWEallsmile]

I think you can enhance this possibility if you check in online and only bring hand luggage. In most cases they will only check your passport right before entry on the plane. I have never experienced that they check visa here but mainly check that your name in your passport and on the ticket corresponds.

I have only experienced that they check visa on the gate when I traveled from Paris to London, this was a securitas officer who did.

I can assure you one would most likely have trouble with the airlines. By all means try your theory, but I would not advise it.

[toni34]

I think you can enhance this possibility if you check in online and only bring hand luggage. In most cases they will only check your passport right before entry on the plane. I have never experienced that they check visa here but mainly check that your name in your passport and on the ticket corresponds.

I have only experienced that they check visa on the gate when I traveled from Paris to London, this was a securitas officer who did.

the above is wrong,you have to get a non eu stamp on your boarding pass and they ur residency .so it doest matter whether you book online or not your boarding pass still need to be stamped .

[1878]

when and where at the airport do they stamp your boarding pass with a non-eu stamp? how will they do this if you check in online with handluggage and go straight to gate?

[EUsmileWEallsmile]

when and where at the airport do they stamp your boarding pass with a non-eu stamp? how will they do this if you check in online with handluggage and go straight to gate?

If you don't believe that you will have problems, fine. You are welcome to try. Good luck. Don't come crying later with, I was denied boarding.

[Directive/2004/38/EC]

If you want to try out going somewhere without a visa by airplane, I would suggest you do not combine it with a normal trip, at least the first time you do it. Do a special purpose trip with the sole purpose of "travelling without a required visa", maybe combined with lunch or drinks at the destination before returning.

Find a cheap same-day-return flight somewhere. Go to Ireland or to France or to Germany. Ryanair to Frankfurt-Hahn for instance.

If you get turned back at the airport before leaving the UK, then you have only used a few hours and hopefully learned a lot. You have not jeopardized your holiday at the same time.

I did this with my wife when we flew to Dublin. In the end we were away from home for about 14 hours.

[alekos]

I have flown with Ryanair, Monarch, Wizz Air and Iberia, with hand luggage only. The boarding pass always says in bold capital letters, "VISA/PASSPORT CHECK. You will be denied boarding if you do not have your travel documents checked at the check-in desk".

But if you really want to find out by yourself, please do let us know how you got on.

[Directive/2004/38/EC]

I have flown with Ryanair, Monarch, Wizz Air and Iberia, with hand luggage only. The boarding pass always says in bold capital letters, "VISA/PASSPORT CHECK. You will be denied boarding if you do not have your travel documents checked at the check-in desk".

But if you really want to find out by yourself, please do let us know how you got on.

Sorry, but it is not guaranteed that you will be refused boarding. In fact they should let on the family member of an EU citizen as they do have the right to enter the destination country even if they do not have a visa.

But it is also not easy to get on. You will very likely have to ask and persuade and ask again and maybe threaten the airline with legal action.

Can you make it on? Not sure. It has certainly been done in the past.

Will it be easy? Likely not.

[1878]

As referred to on the other thread a woman (visa national) entered UK with an expired EEA2 from the same airport in Norway that I will be traveling so it is highly likely this might work.

Of course I hope we get the RC in time for our travels.

[EUsmileWEallsmile]

As referred to on the other thread a woman (visa national) entered UK with an expired EEA2 from the same airport in Norway that I will be traveling so it is highly likely this might work.

A UK airline managed to let an undocumented, ticketless child fly to Rome recently. What's my point? Just because it happened to someone else might not mean you will be able to do the same.

[habibcs]

I'm sorry to hear about your wife's problems.
What is she doing in the UK? She needs to be a worker, self-sufficient, student. She can be absent from the UK for upto 6 months (or even a year in the case of illness) without affecting residency, but she must have been exercising treaty rights.
You can travel in and out on a family permit until it expires. Thereafter you will need a new one (abroad) or have your residence card (in country). You can apply for a residence card and request your passport back.

Thanks all for your important replies, I was not getting notification emails for replies somehow..

Actually my wife is pregnant and we just got to know about it now.
Situation is that we are in Denmark now and I got job in London and I resigned here in Denmark. I have got EEA_FP and suppose to join work in London in September since I am now eligible to work on EEA FP.

She will be exercising treaty rights in the UK as a self-sufficient based on a family member's regular income (i.e me) - which will make both of us eligible for EEA1 & 2.
Correct me if this is wrong.

But now situation is complex that:
My EEA FP, Denmark Resident visa and Passport all will expire in end of January and expected delivery date for baby is end of March. So I need to plan things according to that!

What I now know is and need to know:

1) "You cannot renew your EEA FP inside the UK"
I suppose this is confirmed.

2) "What is she doing in the UK? She needs to be a worker, self-sufficient, student. She can be absent from the UK for upto 6 months (or even a year in the case of illness) without affecting residency, but she must have been exercising treaty rights."

When we visit UK in September, we rent a flat and will apply for EEA1 for my wife via premium service in Croydon within 2 weeks from arrival.
Then she will be absent from UK till the delivery, she might visit me as and when her health permits. I am suppose to visit her every month or so..

3) "You can travel in and out on a family permit until it expires."
This holds true for any multiple visa which EEA_FP is as well.
EEA FP - I got it only because I am traveling / accompanied with my EEA national spouse. If I travel alone I need to get UK Visa.
So question again is, Can I travel out of UK alone? Can I re-enter UK alone? on EEA FP Visa. First time I will have to travel into UK with my wife.

4) "You can apply for a residence card and request your passport back."
I know that but it is too risky and I have read this forum ppl stuck in UK because of this.
I can merely try but since the situation is critically important so cannot depend on it. I would need to get passport back soon!

5) "Is your spouse leaving the UK temporarily?"
Yes, in the sense that we want to live in UK and I have got the permanent job with 6 months of initial probation.
But she wants her pregnancy process in Denmark, especially because all of her family is here and this kind of medical system in Denmark is very good and we are well aware of it.

6) "Does your spouse have an EU ID card additionally to her passport? If so, you could consider applying for EEA2. She would have to hand in her passport but could still travel home on her EU ID card."
Denmark citizens do not have any photo ID card.
Driving license is the only identity beside passport.
I am not sure - where is it mention that an EEA national can travel on ID card in/out UK without the passport?

For my case, right now I do not want to risk my passport and bound myself.

7) "Can't you travel on expired EEA FP as long as the EEA national is exercising treaty rights in the UK and you can prove this along with marriage certificate? ---
Yes if you can get to a border, no if you can't get on a plane."

Can you apply this question again on my situation?
(My wife will be exercising treaty rights only based on the fact that I am on job in London but I will be traveling alone without her)

Many Thanks!

[EUsmileWEallsmile]

What you are planning to do appears to be possible, but I would say is at the very least unorthodox and may give rise to further investigation and subsequent problems for you. You may find that you are unable to travel while it is all sorted out and this may cause you hardship.

If I were you (and of course I am not) and given your wife's preference to give birth in Denmark, I would consider postponing the move to the UK until after the baby is born.

[habibcs]

What you are planning to do appears to be possible, but I would say is at the very least unorthodox and may give rise to further investigation and subsequent problems for you. You may find that you are unable to travel while it is all sorted out and this may cause you hardship.

If I were you (and of course I am not) and given your wife's preference to give birth in Denmark, I would consider postponing the move to the UK until after the baby is born.

Thank you for your answer! I understand and should try to measure the risk.

Can you also please tell me about this:
3) "You can travel in and out on a family permit until it expires."
EEA FP - I got it only because I am traveling / accompanied with my EEA national spouse. If I travel alone I need to get UK Visa.
So question again is, Can I travel out of UK alone? Can I re-enter UK alone? on EEA FP Visa. First time I will have to travel into UK with my wife.

[EUsmileWEallsmile]

Thank you for your answer! I understand and should try to measure the risk.

Can you also please tell me about this:
3) "You can travel in and out on a family permit until it expires."
EEA FP - I got it only because I am traveling / accompanied with my EEA national spouse. If I travel alone I need to get UK Visa.
So question again is, Can I travel out of UK alone? Can I re-enter UK alone? on EEA FP Visa. First time I will have to travel into UK with my wife.

I'm glad you are weighing up your options.

To get an idea as to what might happen at the border, you could start by reading this.

http://www.ukba.homeoffice.gov.uk/sitec ... iew=Binary

[Directive/2004/38/EC]

I think you need to be very careful if you want to do this properly and remain within the law.

The prime thing to consider at each stage along the way: Is your wife is resident in the UK.


Is she presently resident in the UK?

Has she visited the UK in the past six months?

[habibcs]

I think you need to be very careful if you want to do this properly and remain within the law.

Thanks to you guys for advice - that's what I'm trying to do and being extra careful.

The prime thing to consider at each stage along the way:
1) Is your wife is resident in the UK.
No. (But I will try to get her EEA1 in our first visit within a week)

2) Is she presently residing in the UK?
No.

3) Has she visited the UK in the past six months?
Yes. With me on EEA_FP (And she would be away for a genuine medical cause)

If at any time, I am able to satisfy only the point no.3 - would that be enough (in my processing mentioned above in this thread)?

[Directive/2004/38/EC]

Ok, let me be difficult at this point.

Even if you are careful to stay within the letter law, that does not prevent UKBA from (lets assume incorrectly) preventing you from entering the UK. When they refuse you entry, at that point the viability of your UK based job is harder.

UKBA will likely ask you where your wife is and what she is doing. When you answer she is in Denmark, they may well ask you how long she has been there. When you say "6 months", then it may be even more difficult.

The place you have contact with UKBA is at the border, and the more contact you have the more likely you will be to find one IO who will turn you away, even if the law is on your side.

At that point what do you do?

If you do not travel in and out you will likely not have a problem. But that may not be an option. Being in the UK while your wife was pregnant and giving birth? My wife would raise a riot!

By all means explore all possibilities here, and stay within the law. But practical day to day may also be important.

I must say that the UK has a good NHS, and having children there is very straight forward and decent. You may want to consider the challenges of focussing on the exotic corners of immigration law during the next 12 months.

[habibcs]

Thanks to all and esp to EUsmileWEallsmile, Directive, Jambo!

I emailed simple query to WorldBridge (partner of UKBA) that if on EEA_FP non-eea national family member can enter/exit from UK (after first time) without eea national spouse.

Response:

Family members of EEA (European Economic Area) nationals may apply for EEA family permits. Otherwise you are requested to follow the general procedure for the visa nationals or DAT nationals. This is an entry clearance that allows the holder to enter, live and work in the UK. This entry clearance is free of charge and it is valid for six months.

Please note that EEA Family Permit holders may only travel with the EEA national (enter the UK) or join him/her in the UK.

UK visas are normally valid for multiple entries to the UK.

WorldBridge: https://www.visainfoservices.com