Apply for EEA2 or not?

[newbieholland]

Hi All,

I am a visa national on an EEA FP which has already expired (Surinder Singh ruling). The UKBA site clearly states the following -

You do not need to obtain documents confirming your right of residence in the UK if you are a family member of an EEA national.

However, you may be inconvenienced if you do not obtain this confirmation, as:


if you leave the UK, you will usually need to obtain an EEA family permit before returning here, in order to guarantee readmission as the family member of a qualified EEA national;

I need to travel abroad within a months time for work and I am not sure if I can receive my passport back in time to travel if I apply for EEA 2 now. What if we travel to Europe and come back to UK via a ferry would they put another 6months valid stamp on my passport? Can they refuse entry if I am travelling with my EU family member?

Thnx in advance.[/b]

[EUsmileWEallsmile]

In general a visa national will have a hard time getting to a border. If one gets to a border, it is possible to enter if one can demonstrate that one qualifies.

Make your life easy, get the residence card sorted out or at least allow enough time abroad to get another family permit.

[newbieholland]

In general a visa national will have a hard time getting to a border. If one gets to a border, it is possible to enter if one can demonstrate that one qualifies.

Make your life easy, get the residence card sorted out or at least allow enough time abroad to get another family permit.

Getting to the border is not hard if you are travelling within Europe so that will not be an issue. I assume if someone has an EEA FP (recently expired) and travelling to UK with there UK family member they have already demonstrated they qualify; as we all know how creative UKBA can get while refusing the EEA FP.

I know the best thing to do is apply for an RC but that means my work getting affected. Has anyone been in the similar situation before? Does UKBA let non EU family members enter the UK on a residence permit from another member state yet?

I have an email from World bridge stating UKBA confirmed (personally referring to me while I was waiting on an outcome of my EEA FP application) that I dont need an EEA FP since I am a family member of an EU national and holding a residence permit from another member state. In all it looks like they dont have a reason to refuse as a British National who was enaged in an economic activity in another member state is already a qualified person without any further condition once they return to the UK. (correct me if I am wrong)

Hope some one can shade some light.

[EUsmileWEallsmile]

To clarify my earlier post, it should have read "will have a hard time boarding a plane to get to a border".

[newbieholland]

To clarify my earlier post, it should have read "will have a hard time boarding a plane to get to a border".

You don't always have to take a plane to get to the UK border if you are in Europe.

[fysicus]

I know the best thing to do is apply for an RC but that means my work getting affected.

If you say even yourself that it is the best thing to do, then do it!
I have no idea why your work should be affected. You can ask your passport back pretty soon after the application has been submitted, without affecting the application or its outcome.

[newbieholland]

I know the best thing to do is apply for an RC but that means my work getting affected.

If you say even yourself that it is the best thing to do, then do it!
I have no idea why your work should be affected. You can ask your passport back pretty soon after the application has been submitted, without affecting the application or its outcome.

If I request my passport back would it come back with the COA?

[fysicus]

This question is impossible to answer, and I also don't see why it matters. Getting the CoA and getting your passport back are two totally unrelated events.
Anyway, unless you really need your passport back immediately, better wait until you already have the CoA to request it back.

[newbieholland]

This question is impossible to answer, and I also don't see why it matters. Getting the CoA and getting your passport back are two totally unrelated events.
Anyway, unless you really need your passport back immediately, better wait until you already have the CoA to request it back.

Hey dude... You are saying you don't see why does it matter because you are not reading my post properly before commenting. Obviously the whole issue is related to be able to travel in and out of UK without issues. I guess the COA should allow me to re enter UK without any issues. I have lived in two other member states and gone through the process of applying for an RC twice now. The preliminary visa (6 months)is issued pretty much on the same day while they assess your application. UKBA already checks your eligibility before issuing the EEA FP so why do they hold the passport and the COA to waste people's time.

[fysicus]

Don't call me dude, if you want me to help you, please. I understand your situation better than you apparently can imagine.
Before you can even consider to travel for work, first of all you have to secure your right to work. Although strictly speaking this is an automatic right, you cannot expect third parties to verify again and again that your EU family member is actually exercising treaty rights in the UK. They will rely on UKBA to do that for them, and therefore will want to see a Residence Card. RC's issued by other countries are meaningless for this.
Have a look at the summary guidance provided on http://www.ukba.homeoffice.gov.uk/sitec ... alworking/
Until you achieve PR, your employer needs to verify at least annually (or more frequent if the documentation you provide expires earlier) your right to work in the UK.

[newbieholland]

I understand your situation better than you apparently can imagine.

I dont really think you understand my situation to be honest. So I really dont mind if you do not help me as you are not adding any information here which I don`t already know. If I apply now and ask them to return my passport without getting a COA then there is no need for the application to be sent in rush to risk my travel plan.

Before you can even consider to travel for work, first of all you have to secure your right to work.

When did I mention that I have a query regarding ascertaining my rights? I have no issues working here on an expired EEA FP at all as my employer does understand my rights.

Although strictly speaking this is an automatic right, you cannot expect third parties to verify again and again that your EU family member is actually exercising treaty rights in the UK.

As I said earlier you are not reading my post at all and just giving me the generic information that you know about EEA FP. I got my Entry clearance on Surinder Singh ruling which means we have already proved the UKBA that my EU family member is a qualified person to be in the UK on EEA rulings. The UK national does not have to meet any additional conditions to be a qualified person upon their return to the UK after an employment in another member state.
I am only interested in knowing if
What if we travel to Europe and come back to UK via a ferry would they put another 6months valid stamp on my passport? Can they refuse entry even if I am travelling with my EU family member (who is a UK national)?

Don't call me dude, if you want me to help you, please.

Every person asking for information on this forum does not necessarily be as desperate as you think they are. Please do not have a go at me for calling you a dude (which was a friendly gesture) unless you are a lady.

Cheers

[Jambo]

Sorry to interrupt this lovely discussion but you might find the following interesting - MelC - Surninder Singh @ Calais.

[fysicus]

I have no issues working here on an expired EEA FP at all as my employer does understand my rights.

Well, good for you that your employer does understand your rights, but I think he does not understand his own obligations.
The probability of it happening may be small, but if his business is honoured with an inspection by UKBA he may face at least tough questions, and if fined he will have no defence he can use to appeal.

[Jambo]

Well, good for you that your employer does understand your rights, but I think he does not understand his own obligations.
The probability of it happening may be small, but if his business is honoured with an inspection by UKBA he may face at least tough questions, and if fined he will have no defence he can use to appeal.

Isn't the obligation to check before employment starts and every 12 months? The HO recommends to check close to the expiry date if within 12 months but as long as the employer can show he followed the 3 steps before employment started, he should be covered for 12 months.

[fysicus]

The obligation (as I understand it) is to check every 12 months, or 5 years, depending on the type of document the employee provides.
However, if the document expires before the end of this period, the recheck should be done on or before the expiry date.

I happen to be an employer myself, and this is how we do it.

[sum1]

There are List A and List B documents. List A documents need to be checked only once at the beginning of the employment. List B documents every 12 months or sooner if the document expires sooner. That's my understanding.

[newbieholland]

I have no issues working here on an expired EEA FP at all as my employer does understand my rights.

Well, good for you that your employer does understand your rights, but I think he does not understand his own obligations.
The probability of it happening may be small, but if his business is honoured with an inspection by UKBA he may face at least tough questions, and if fined he will have no defence he can use to appeal.

UKBA`s site clearly states the following at this Link http://www.ukba.homeoffice.gov.uk/eucit ... ts-family/

You do not need to obtain documents confirming your right of residence in the UK if you are a family member of an EEA national.

So how could this be practiced with employer`s obligation? In other words I have a right to work and I dont need to confirm this by applying for an RC with UKBA unless I want to. The employer is under a legal obligation to check my rights which can be clarified by my EEA FP and the link above. I dont think there is any possibility that the employer could get fined as I am authorized work in the UK. Remember the RC does not give you the rights but only confirms your rights. I am happy to fight a battle against UKBA in any court as I know my rights.

I have seen people advocating the EU directive and practicing your right against the bureaucratic attitude of the authorities (especially UKBA) on this forum and when someone is putting it in practice you guys trying to scare me?:lol: After reading your posts if I was an employer I would not want to hire someone on an EEA FP. But I would be very happy to post that family of an EU national has the right to work in the UK and you should fight back. Contradicting huh?

[newbieholland]

Sorry to interrupt this lovely discussion but you might find the following interesting - MelC - Surninder Singh @ Calais.

Thanks for the link Jambo there is a slight difference between Mel C and my case as I do have an expired EEA FP which clarifies UKBA has verified my claims (over two applications and about 16 + weeks wait) for Surinder Singh rather than giving me the stamp in 10 mins.

[EUsmileWEallsmile]

My understanding is that an employer can be fined if he employed a person who was not entitled to work AND did not conduct any checks.

The spouse of an EU national living in the UK in accordance with the regulations would be entitled to work (no fine).

[fysicus]

My understanding is that an employer can be fined if he employed a person who was not entitled to work AND did not conduct any checks.

Yes, that is true in itself.

And what I was trying to say all the time, is that a sensible employer would conduct checks (the risk is on their shoulders if they don't), and would do so by requiring that the (potential) employee produces a document that is on the list of statutory defences, and recheck before it expires.

Most employers don't have the resources to check your eligibility to work on the basis of all the supporting evidence that you have to send with an EEA application. Instead they rely on a single document, issued by a competent authority (may it's too much honour to use these words in connection with UKBA), that confirms your right to work.

newbieholland for some reason does not want to get this confirmation from UKBA, and seems to think it is reasonable to require from any third party to verify his rights (when he wants to exercise them) from scratch over and over again.

[newbieholland]

newbieholland for some reason does not want to get this confirmation from UKBA, and seems to think it is reasonable to require from any third party to verify his rights (when he wants to exercise them) from scratch over and over again.

What makes you say that I do not want to? Are you a psychic? I have no clue as to why are you assuming things about me and making statements on my behalf? I am just weighing my options here.

[EUspouse82]

newbieholland for some reason does not want to get this confirmation from UKBA, and seems to think it is reasonable to require from any third party to verify his rights (when he wants to exercise them) from scratch over and over again.

What makes you say that I do not want to? Are you a psychic? I have no clue as to why are you assuming things about me and making statements on my behalf? I am just weighing my options here.

For someone posting on this thread seeking advise, you seem to have a big chip on your shoulder. You have been quite rude in your response to some posters; if you are very knowledgable about the UK Immigration system, then why bother post seeking advice at all?

[EUsmileWEallsmile]

...

I hope your questions have answered to your satisfaction. I feel that things have gone a little off-topic and it is better that we move on.