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EEA family permit...

Use this section for any queries concerning the EU Settlement Scheme, for applicants holding pre-settled and settled status.

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giorgosa
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EEA family permit...

Post by giorgosa » Sat Oct 13, 2012 12:38 pm

Hello and thank you for the great forum.

I read a lot but I couldnt find specific answers to my questions, so here we go:

I am a greek national married to a turkish one since 2005. We live in Istanbul. My wife (turkish) is going to have a job offer from the UK. I am currently looking for a job in the UK, but nothing yet.

1.What we ll write in application of her EEA family permit as reason of going to the UK? as end date of our visit?
2.After she ll start working we have to apply for RC. right? Can I apply as self-sufficient EEA citizen since she ll earn around 27k yearly? Job seeker is another option since I have made lots of applications but I read somewhere that I should have a job before in the UK.

Any answers would be really helpful.

Directive/2004/38/EC
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Post by Directive/2004/38/EC » Sat Oct 13, 2012 3:14 pm

You do not need to fill out any information in the visa application form about where either of you are presently working, where you will be working in the UK, or about your assets.

I think it is best to not answer those questions entirely. In fact I think it is a good idea to include a cover letter roughly with the content of https://dl.dropbox.com/u/27885818/priva ... rdraft.doc

giorgosa
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Post by giorgosa » Sat Oct 13, 2012 5:29 pm

Directive/2004/38/EC wrote:You do not need to fill out any information in the visa application form about where either of you are presently working, where you will be working in the UK, or about your assets.

I think it is best to not answer those questions entirely. In fact it is a good idea to include a cover letter roughly with the content of https://dl.dropbox.com/u/27885818/priva ... rdraft.doc
Thank you for the file.

I agree, they shouldnt ask anything. But first line of VAF5 application form is asking for reason of travel :(

Bonus question:)
- Lets say I find work in another city from the city that my wife works for a short time?Whats happening then? Cant we ask for EEA2? I notice that we get married in 2005.

Thank you in advance

Directive/2004/38/EC
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Post by Directive/2004/38/EC » Sun Oct 14, 2012 12:28 am

What if the question was "What is your favourite colour?" or "Where did you first see your spouse naked?".

They can ask all sorts of things on the application, but there are only a few types of questions which are relevant for a decision, and only those must be answered.

It does not matter what reason you are going to the UK for. Quick visit overnight? To live the rest of your life? It does not matter!

giorgosa
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Post by giorgosa » Sun Oct 14, 2012 5:41 pm

Directive/2004/38/EC wrote:What if the question was "What is your favourite colour?" or "Where did you first see your spouse naked?".

They can ask all sorts of things on the application, but there are only a few types of questions which are relevant for a decision, and only those must be answered.

It does not matter what reason you are going to the UK for. Quick visit overnight? To live the rest of your life? It does not matter!
About this do you know something?

"- Lets say I find work in another city from the city that my wife works for a short time(meet on weekends of course). Whats happening then? Can't we ask for EEA2? I notice that we get married in 2005. "

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Post by Directive/2004/38/EC » Sun Oct 14, 2012 9:49 pm

Basically how a married couple arranges their life is generally no business of UKBA. So if one works in Birmingham and the other works in London, that is in itself not a problem.

I think there must have been a ECJ case with very similar facts to what you are asking about, but I am not sure of the name of the case.

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Post by EUsmileWEallsmile » Sun Oct 14, 2012 9:54 pm

Directive/2004/38/EC wrote:Basically how a married couple arranges their life is generally no business of UKBA. So if one works in Birmingham and the other works in London, that is in itself not a problem.

I think there must have been a ECJ case with very similar facts to what you are asking about, but I am not sure of the name of the case.
Diatta is the name of the case.

http://eur-lex.europa.eu/Notice.do?val= ... kbox&visu=

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Post by Directive/2004/38/EC » Sun Oct 14, 2012 9:58 pm

Many thanks!

giorgosa
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Post by giorgosa » Sun Oct 14, 2012 10:11 pm

Thank you for the answer.

Although Diatta case seems similar, I am not sure if Home Office will give us EEA2 if we have different residence address. We can appeal it but you know the hassle and result cannot be guaranteed I think....

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Post by EUsmileWEallsmile » Sun Oct 14, 2012 10:21 pm

If you trawl through the UKBA's guidance you will find reference to the same judgement.

http://www.ukba.homeoffice.gov.uk/sitec ... dlaw/ecis/

Happy reading!

roxx79
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Post by roxx79 » Mon Oct 15, 2012 4:59 am

Directive/2004/38/EC wrote:You do not need to fill out any information in the visa application form about where either of you are presently working, where you will be working in the UK, or about your assets.

I think it is best to not answer those questions entirely. In fact I think it is a good idea to include a cover letter roughly with the content of https://dl.dropbox.com/u/27885818/priva ... rdraft.doc
This letter is really great! Thanks!
R

giorgosa
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Post by giorgosa » Tue Oct 16, 2012 2:34 pm

Directive/2004/38/EC wrote:You do not need to fill out any information in the visa application form about where either of you are presently working, where you will be working in the UK, or about your assets.

I think it is best to not answer those questions entirely. In fact I think it is a good idea to include a cover letter roughly with the content of https://dl.dropbox.com/u/27885818/priva ... rdraft.doc
one question:

I asked them if they accept our turkish marriage certificate and they said that they accept it(translated to English,although its international).

"Please be informed that you are able to provide Turkish marriage certificate translated to English as a proof of marriage."

and they added:
"However, the British Consulate will evaluate the document. You may also provide any marriage related document that may support your application."

Do I need to give them the related greek document? I can but it'll take so much time. I notice that the we made the marriage in Greece.

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Post by Directive/2004/38/EC » Tue Oct 16, 2012 2:36 pm

I personally think it is a mistake to provide more than the certificate.

giorgosa
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Post by giorgosa » Tue Oct 16, 2012 2:50 pm

Directive/2004/38/EC wrote:I personally think it is a mistake to provide more than the certificate.
I can provide the translated greek document also but not APOSTILLE stamped. APOSTILLE stamp from Greece can take up to one month to reach my hand...

Anyway, I will give only the turkish marriage certificate, it should be enough.

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Post by Directive/2004/38/EC » Tue Oct 16, 2012 2:58 pm

You live in Turkey and got married in Turkey. Why do you have a Greek marriage certificate and why is it relevant?

Or am I just confused?

giorgosa
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Post by giorgosa » Tue Oct 16, 2012 3:35 pm

Directive/2004/38/EC wrote:You live in Turkey and got married in Turkey. Why do you have a Greek marriage certificate and why is it relevant?

Or am I just confused?
I live in Turkey but I get married in Greece. My family booklet (which contains the marriage certifcate is international according to convention of Paris of 12 September 1974) is issued from turkish authorities since we live here since 2006.

But since we get married in Greece we have greek marriage cerrtificate also (from which turkish authorities produced the turkish one, writing that marriage took place in Greece).

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Post by aledeniz » Tue Oct 16, 2012 5:35 pm

giorgosa wrote:My family booklet (which contains the marriage certifcate is international according to convention of Paris of 12 September 1974) is issued from turkish authorities since we live here since 2006.
I married in Turkey, and I bet you are referring to the booklet with the red cover. When my wife asked her EEA family permit, the British consulate in Istanbul was happy to accept that without any apostille. Which at the time I found weird, because I was knowing that the UK is not a signatory of any of the CIEC conventions.

More in detail, the documents issued pursuant the CIEC conventions are usually binding only between signatory states who have ratified such conventions. My understanding is that UK hasn't signed any, let alone ratified. In Turkey they usually don't care, they try to be helpful, if you ask them some certificate in the format established from the CIEC conventions, they will usually happily print that for you, no matter where you will have to use it. In Italy, if by mistake you say you are going to use it in the UK, they will not print that paper for you, no matter what.

P.S.: I was generalising about Italy, you may surely find the office where they will print you a certificate in a CIEC model no matter which country you are going to use those, but anecdotically you may find the nasty ones who will not care a iota about wasting your time for nonsensical reasons more often than elsewhere.

giorgosa
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Post by giorgosa » Tue Oct 16, 2012 6:37 pm

aledeniz wrote:
giorgosa wrote:My family booklet (which contains the marriage certifcate is international according to convention of Paris of 12 September 1974) is issued from turkish authorities since we live here since 2006.
I married in Turkey, and I bet you are referring to the booklet with the red cover. When my wife asked her EEA family permit, the British consulate in Istanbul was happy to accept that without any apostille. Which at the time I found weird, because I was knowing that the UK is not a signatory of any of the CIEC conventions.

More in detail, the documents issued pursuant the CIEC conventions are usually binding only between signatory states who have ratified such conventions. My understanding is that UK hasn't signed any, let alone ratified. In Turkey they usually don't care, they try to be helpful, if you ask them some certificate in the format established from the CIEC conventions, they will usually happily print that for you, no matter where you will have to use it. In Italy, if by mistake you say you are going to use it in the UK, they will not print that paper for you, no matter what.

P.S.: I was generalising about Italy, you may surely find the office where they will print you a certificate in a CIEC model no matter which country you are going to use those, but anecdotically you may find the nasty ones who will not care a iota about wasting your time for nonsensical reasons more often than elsewhere.
Yes I refer to the booklet with the red cover :) and your answer is so helpful for me...

Did you give a translation of this or just a copy of this(since back pages provide translate in all languages)?

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Post by aledeniz » Tue Oct 16, 2012 10:48 pm

giorgosa wrote: Yes I refer to the booklet with the red cover :) and your answer is so helpful for me...

Did you give a translation of this or just a copy of this(since back pages provide translate in all languages)?
I asked my wife, she confirmed me she remembers she didn't have to translate, or apostille or legalise that booklet. I've still the booklet, and surely it is not apostilled. That said, if I understood good, you say you married in Greece, so I really don't know if that may be considered as a wedding certificate, in our case has ever been accepted as such (by Turkey, which issued it, and by the UK, Italy, Spain and Germany).

Coming back to my wife's EEA FP application, she didn't made the application herself, she used the visa agency which was used by her employer at the time. She basically asked them "which documents do I need for the EEA Family Permit?", those guys gave her a list of documents, she collected the paperwork, gave them everything with the passport, they arranged the interview at the consulate a couple of days later, and she got her entry clearance (I cannot remember if that was given on the spot, but she surely had it a very few days later). I don't know if they translated anything on their own, albeit I doubt that.

An important bit, those guys of the visa agency asked stuff like:

-a document faxed by my employer in the UK to my wife in Turkey, confirming that I was one of their employees, and that they were going to accept a fax instead of the original as long as the fax number was on the the paper;
-to strengthen the application; my wife's salary papers, bank status, some photos of us together taken in different years, telephone bills, letters, etc.
- they even asked letters from my wife's employer, in this model:
Tuesday, dd MMM YYYY

British Consulate General
Istanbul

Attn: Visa Department

Mrs MY WIFE holding a Turkish passport, no. blabla, working
as blabla in our company Bla Bla A.S. Istanbul
offices since xx.mm.yyyy will be travelling to London/UK for family and travel purposes by MMMM YYYY. During her stay all of the travel and accommodation expenses will be covered by her.

We kindly ask you to grant visa for MY WIFE.

Thank you in advance for your kind assistance.

Yours sincerely,
Bla Bla A.S. Istanbul
At the time I raised my concerns about having to get letters from her employers, I couldn't see as that could be related to me being exercising treaty rights in the UK, but I was told that would have helped the application.

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Post by Directive/2004/38/EC » Tue Oct 16, 2012 11:22 pm

For a EEA Family Permit of a direct family member, it does not matter at all where either work (or that they work at all), nor how much money or assets they have. It also does not matter if either of them have a job or even prospects of a job once they enter the UK.

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Post by aledeniz » Tue Oct 16, 2012 11:30 pm

Directive/2004/38/EC wrote:For a EEA Family Permit of a direct family member, it does not matter at all where either work (or that they work at all), nor how much money or assets they have. It also does not matter if either of them have a job or even prospects of a job once they enter the UK.
While I wholeheartedly agree the point you are trying to make, and I did actually raised at the time exactly the same point, I was just reporting anecdotal personal experience.

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Post by Directive/2004/38/EC » Wed Oct 17, 2012 12:08 am

aledeniz wrote:
Directive/2004/38/EC wrote:For a EEA Family Permit of a direct family member, it does not matter at all where either work (or that they work at all), nor how much money or assets they have. It also does not matter if either of them have a job or even prospects of a job once they enter the UK.
While I wholeheartedly agree the point you are trying to make, and I did actually raised at the time exactly the same point, I was just reporting anecdotal personal experience.
I understand 100%.

I have had unneeded and inappropriate visas applied for on my behalf recently by the immigration group of a very large international account firm. I tried to figure out why they were doing it. I can only guess they can only bill for services they provide, and they were not wise enough to realize it was not required. But who really knows.

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