Can we renew a EEA2?

[Ajudante]

Dear all. Two question about EEA-route applications.

I am a EU national. My non-EU partner got a 5-year EEA2 visa, which is going to expire soon. I think an application for a EEA4 will fail because he was out of the UK for 2 years during these 5 years. What are the alternatives? Is there a possibility of renewing a EEA2-type visa for another 5 years?

Second question. I got my EEA3 confirming Permanent Residence. Do I still need to show that I am exercising treaty rights in my partner's application, or a copy of the permanent residence document will do? Also, do I have to prove I have a job or lots of money on my bank account?

[Englandd]

yes Non-EEA partner can renew RC but once an EEA national gets PR (EEA3) then he/she is no longer to excercise eu treaty rights.

[Ajudante]

Thanks for quick reply. A doubt I have is whether the renewal of a EEA2 is essentially a new EEA2 application or if there is another mechanism? I could not find any information on the UKBA site about renewal, so I guess that my partner has to submit another EEA2 application. Am I right?

Also, I took a look at the new application form and it is not clear whether the EU partner has to show evidence of employment or money. I don't have any of these, so I would prefer just to show proof of my PR. In the headings of each section in the application form ("Employment", "self-employment", "student") there is a mention that we could submit proof of PR, but there is no explicit mention that this will exempt us from filing the section, that is, of telling them what the EEA partner is doing at the moment (he is looking for work, by the way, but that is something that the UKBA probably does not want to hear). Does anyone know anything about this? Thanks

[Ajudante]

Another question:

The EEA2 application form starts with a very intriguing paragraph:

"There is no legal requirement for non-EEA or non-Swiss national direct family members of EEA or Swiss nationals who are exercising Treaty rights in the UK to obtain a residence card to confirm their right of residence in the UK. Any such non-EEA or non-Swiss national applying for a residence card does so on an entirely voluntary basis. "

Surely there is no legal requirement for the non EU to apply for a residence card. But if he doesn't he'll be illegal and deported after his current residence card expires. I do not understand the meaning of this paragraph at all. Any clues?

[Englandd]

Under EEA law only the activities EEA national are counted because non-EEA national gets its rights based on these and his/her activities are not relevant. Normally the residence breaks after 6 months of continuous absence from uk. If you working/self sufficient/studying/self sufficient then just mention it on EEA2 application form and support it despite after getting EEA3 you do not need to excercise any treaty rights and same you can mention in covering letter.
Yes it is true on EEA2 that there is no legal requirement for non-eu partner to apply RC and it is optional as long as the the EEA national is excercising treaty rights.

[Ajudante]

Englandd, thanks a lot,

so the way to renew a EEA2 is to apply again to a EEA2, using the same application form?

the main thing we concern about is: can they reject the application because I (the EU partner) am poor and unemployed?

I have this concern because when I look at the application form I can see, for example, that one of the questions in the "Employment" section is "annual salary". I cannot understand why they have to know this, if not to discriminate against people with low salaries. I think this question was not there in the previous version of the form.

[Englandd]

but there is no concept about any threshold/limit of salary under EEA law.

[Ajudante]

precisely! that's why I find this question about salary so mysterious.. Especially because it's new. In the old application it was not there, as far as I can remember.

[Jambo]

Another question:

The EEA2 application form starts with a very intriguing paragraph:

"There is no legal requirement for non-EEA or non-Swiss national direct family members of EEA or Swiss nationals who are exercising Treaty rights in the UK to obtain a residence card to confirm their right of residence in the UK. Any such non-EEA or non-Swiss national applying for a residence card does so on an entirely voluntary basis. "

Surely there is no legal requirement for the non EU to apply for a residence card. But if he doesn't he'll be illegal and deported after his current residence card expires. I do not understand the meaning of this paragraph at all. Any clues?

It is exactly as it says on the tin.

Residence rights under EEA regulations are obtain automatically by the activities of the EEA nationals regardless if you hold a confirmation from the home office.

If you hold a document certifying your PR, then as long as she is your family member (i.e. married), she is legal in the UK even with an expired RC (or without one at all).

There is no concept of renew EEA2 as there is nothing to renew. The rights are obtained automatically. The HO just confirm them. You can apply for as many RC as you wish.

As it states on the EEA2 application form (second paragraph in section 6), if you have a document certifying PR, just send it with the application, there is no need to fill in the rest of the section. Just add a marriage certificate, both passports and photos. That's all.

[Ajudante]

Jambo, thanks.

It's true. there's no legal requirement for renewing the eea2 or holding a registration certificate. I was surprised when I saw the expression "you do not need" in the UKBA webpage, but on further reading I understood what they mean.

however in practice my partner will need the reg. certifictate, as it's always required at the border when returning to the uk after any absence, or at other countries' borders, when travelling. It's also necessary when applying for jobs, doing business, opening bank accounts and so on.


Another question. Is it worth trying a EEA4? My partner was absent from the UK for 2 years out of the EEA2 5 years. I think absences are OK in cases of internships/traineeships, but is 2 years too long?

[Englandd]

more than 6 months absence per visit outside of UK breaks the residence criteria. now i am copying the UKBA wording regarding for your query:

"If you are the non-European family member of an EEA or Swiss national, and you have come to the UK with them, you can apply for a residence card. This is a document which confirms your right of residence under European law. Your residence card may take the form of an endorsement in your passport (also called a 'vignette'), or it may be a separate document called an 'immigration status document'. A residence card is normally valid for 5 years from the date when it is issued.

When you have lived here for a continuous period of 5 years with the EEA or Swiss national (who must have been in employment, self-employment, studying or self-sufficient in the UK throughout the 5 years), you can apply for confirmation of your right to permanent residence in the UK.

To find out how to apply for any of these documents, see the Applying for residence documents page.

Do you need to apply?
You do not need to obtain documents confirming your right of residence in the UK if you are a family member of an EEA national.

However, you may be inconvenienced if you do not obtain this confirmation, as:

1. you may have difficulty proving that you are lawfully resident in the UK;
2. if you leave the UK, you will usually need to obtain an EEA family permit before returning here, in order to guarantee readmission as the family member of a qualified EEA national; and
3. you may find it difficult to obtain or change employment.

[Englandd]

While reading this UKBA wording just concentrate on the word "CONTINUOUS".

[Ajudante]

yeah, 2 years is too long.

but in the case of absences of up to 1 year it seems that there are exceptions.

"For residency within the UK to be considered continuous, there should be no longer periods that six months of UK absence in any one year. Absence compulsory military service does not however affect residence requirements, nor will an absence of up to 12 months as a result of a serious justifiable reason, i.e. pregnancy, childbirth, serious illness, study,
vocational training or posting overseas."

[Jambo]

Does she wish to apply for British citizenship?

If not, there isn't much difference if she stay on a RC for a few more years.

Were the years consecutive ? Could you details the dates? Depending on the lengths of the breaks she might be able to qualify.

[Ajudante]

No plans to apply for British citizenship as now. EEA2 started in May 2008, he stayed out from July 2010 to October 2011 and then again from March 2012 until now. Seems difficult. It could be worth trying, using the "vocational training" exception, but the problem is that these applications take a long time to process. In case the EEA4 was rejected, he'd have to stay without his passport for one year or more (at least 6 months to process EEA4 and then another 6 months or more to process EEA2 - last time it took 9 months), which is quite inconvenient. It's much easier with EEA1 and EEA3 as EU nationals can submit the application with the ID card and still keep the passport at home.

Thanks for your help. A last question regarding the last point: does the EEA2 registration card need to be stamped in the applicant's passport? I guess it could be issued as a separate deocument, like the EEA1 and 3. Would they still ask for the passport to be included in the application or would a copy be sufficient?

[Jambo]

First, you can always ask for the passports back and it will not affect the application so you won't be without the passport for long. If the HO don't have the passport when a decision is made, they will either ask for the passport back or place the vignette on a standalone piece of paper.

Second, sorry for keep writing "she"...

I have no idea if this would work but he can try applying for PR based on the following residence pattern (I assume he did return in between for short visits in the UK so it was not a one long absence):

Year 1: July 2008-July 2009
Year 2: July 2009-July 2010
Year 3: July 2010-July 2011 (12 months abroad for vocational training)
Year 4: July 2011-July 2012 (including July-October - 4 months abroad)
Year 5: July 2012-July 2013 (including March-July - 4 months abroad)

So you are counting on one 12 months break in year 3 and normal absences (less than 6 months) in year 4 &5.

[Ajudante]

Thanks Jambo.

Great help, thanks a lot! I hadn't thought of splitting the periods like this. I think it's worth trying.

The first point is also interesting. I thought that once one asks for the passport back, the application was automatically cancelled.

I'll post the developments here after we do the application.

[rajbiometric]

Hi

I am new on this topic. Have few confusions in my head..
I am non Eu married to EU on oct, 2012 in UK... I am current holding RC (PSW) which is going to expire on 22 Feb, 2013.. and in permanent full time employment from last 2 years.

My wife is gone to Eu to apply resignation from her permanent full time employment (Nurse) in France which could take few month as a govt. employee. As my holding RC going to finish 22 feb. we want to apply for EEA2 before expiring....... But she is not exercising her treaty rights in UK till now.

Can i apply EEA2 without exercising her treaty rights in UK as i am in full time employment as an Engineer?
if not then how can she exercise her treaty right before in next 2 months?
As family member to EU, I do not to apply for RC?

what could be the best suitable way for continue my legal stay in UK?

Regards
Raj

[Jambo]

Can i apply EEA2 without exercising her treaty rights in UK as i am in full time employment as an Engineer?

One can exercise treaty rights in various ways. Employment is one but not the only one. Self sufficient (living off saving/partner earnings) is another.

You can apply for a Residence Card using form EEA2. The relevant section in the form for self-sufficient is 9.1. You are also required to have a private health insurance to cover both of you (not NHS) if your wife is not working.

[rajbiometric]

So i wan't be able to get RC without her treaty rights...

Ok! in case of self-sufficient(saving/partner earning) how much money or which documents need to show?

currently we both resisted with NHS, do we have cancel our NHS registration?

Regards
Raj

[Jambo]

Ok! in case of self-sufficient(saving/partner earning) how much money or which documents need to show?

There isn't a specific figure and each case may vary (cost of housing, size of family etc) but in general, you need to show you are able to live without the need of benefits. So if you earn more than you spend, you will be fine.

currently we both resisted with NHS, do we have cancel our NHS registration?

No. Every resident is entitled to be covered by NHS. You can keep using your GP. However, for the purpose of applying under the EEA regulations, The HO requires you to have a private health insurance. The HO view is that it is required to make sure you won't be burden on the state. Search the forum for CSI to read more about it.

[vinny]

Dear all

I applied for EEA4 as a family-member of a EEA national who is already a permanent resident in the UK, after 5 years as a student (now self-employed, and employed from January 2014). His EEA3 application was successfull.

My EEA2 card expired this year and I applied for a EEA4

My EEA4 application was rejected because I was out of the UK for more than 6 months in a year, during the last 5 years so it was not a continuous 5 years living in the UK with my partner. Fair enough. However, the rejection letter says "No further basis of stay in the UK." and "as you appear to have no alternative basis of stay in the UK you should now make arrangements to leave". They also give me the chance of appeal or to resubmit the application for permanent residence. No mention of the possibility of applying for another 5 year EEA2

What does this mean? I thought that according to European law, I had the right to live in the UK without any visa or residence documentation. How can they say "no further basis of stay in the UK".

What should I do? Can I apply for another EEA2?

Should I hire a lawyer? Anyone can recomment one, based in London? What services can an immigration lawer offer, in a case like this?

Many thanks

Why were you absent for over six months?

You should still be able to remain on the basis of being a family member of an EEA national.

Its just a generic/standard refusal letter and if you have not completed your 5 years with EU partner then simply apply another eea2 rc which should be very straightforward because your eea national partner won't need to exercise treaty rights due to already being permanent resident.

[Ajudante]

Thanks.

I was outside the country for 2 traineeships, first for 1 year and 9 months and another for 7 months

Anyway, I am not contesting their decision. I am just disturbed by the language they used: "no further basis of stay in the UK" and "as you appear to have no alternative basis of stay in the UK, you should now make arrangements to leave"

I just want to apply for another EEA2 but they do not mention that possibility in the letter.

[vinny]

The letter appears to be an incorrect interpretation of the EEA Regulations.

[Ajudante]

Thanks for everybody who replied to my post

I have now submitted a new EEA2 application.

However, the way that the Home Office replied my EEA4 application is totally unacceptable, asking me to leave the country, when they had enough evidence in my EEA4 application that I am living here with my partner, who has a PR card and he is still exercising treaty rights. I did not meet the conditions for a PR myself, but asking me to leave the country and threatening me with deportation is unacceptable, as I am perfectly legal, as a family member of a EU citizen and I don't need any residence documentation.

I would like to complain about this gross violation of EU regulations and also claim the expenses we had because we had to cancel two flights since the Home Office took more than 7 months to process the EEA4 application and was helding our travel documents all this time. According to EU regulations, all applications should be dealt with within 6 months.

I would like to know if anyone has experience in complaining about the Home Office violations of EU law using any of the means below. What is the most effective?

1) UK MP

2) Member of European Parliament

3) EU solveit
http://ec.europa.eu/solvit/

4) European Commission
http://ec.europa.eu/eu_law/your_rights/ ... rms_en.htm

5) Complain to Home Office itself
(a desperate measure, only if everything else fails, I suppose)

Thanks