Opnion about Supporting documents for EEA Family Permit.

[mileve]

Hi Everybody!
Well, I was surfing in google about people who already experienced the process about to get an EEA Family Permit and I finally came up here which I thought it was the best forum to help in it.
Well, I'm brazilian and recently I have applied for my EEA Family Permit. My husband is polish and we plan to move to U.K to study and work. As I saw that many people had experienced the refusal of the EEA, I got a bit afraid and I would like you guys to tell me if in basis of the documents I have submitted, if even though with their "unfair decisions" sometimes, I have nice chances to be lucky and dont be just another one with EEA refusal.

The supporting documents I submitted were:
-Copy of my Polish husband passport and ID;
-Original and translation of the letter from his University which comfirm he is a univeristy student;
-Contract of the place where we live in his name;
-His bank account balance ( even though our amount there, was not that big)
- Letter by his bank which comfirm we have a joint-account;
- Proofs of 4 months that he has paid the rent of our room;
- A set of emails he sent to british companies which shows he is looking for job there;
- A letter from him which says that I will be travelling with him in determined date;
- As we met by internet, I submitted some emails we exchanged, letters, and IM conversation through Gmail;
- our marriage certificate in polish and in portuguese with both translations ( I mean our polish and brazilian marriage certificate);
- I did a cover letter explaining all the progress of our relationship when we met, date to date to every fact and so on;
- and finally pictures of our marriage, pictures of me with his parents, picture of screen-shot when we were talking through internet by skype and MSN Messenger;
- And also a letter with decision from Poland Foreigners Department giving me the permission to stay in Poland for 1 year.
- Oh, and also a letter from bank in my name which comfirm we have joint-account.

Well, my doubt is, my husband in fact is still a university student, he is just finishing now, he was already looking for job here in Poland with no so much sucess and when he finally got one, we had not contract in hands to attach to the documents, he just let it clear in his covering letter, but we had no formal paper of contract because he would be able to sign it only in december. In this way, for the fact that we have just comented about this job but not with a real contract and also a poor value in his bank account, it can be a reason for our refusal?

Thank you in advance for the attention.
Mileve.

[Jambo]

Your list contains many unnecessary documents. See Q2 in EEA FAQs - Common Questions - Read before posting - EEA Family Permit.

As you are Brazilian and don't require a visa to visit the UK, you won't have a problem boarding a flight to the UK. I would skip the EEA Family Permit and just move. See Q1 in the same FAQs.

[Directive/2004/38/EC]

The reason you may want an EEA FP is if you are planning to immediately work in the UK.

But you submitted way to many documents.

Two passports, you marriage certificate, and a cover letter is all that is needed.

[mileve]

Your list contains many unnecessary documents. See Q2 in EEA FAQs - Common Questions - Read before posting - EEA Family Permit.

As you are Brazilian and don't require a visa to visit the UK, you won't have a problem boarding a flight to the UK. I would skip the EEA Family Permit and just move. See Q1 in the same FAQs.

Jambo, Thank you for your answers.
I did read the FAQ link you sent me. But, My intention is not to visit U.K, but to remain with my husband until the period of time of work he will be working there. If I will go as visitor, it will be limited time. Anyway, the EEA Family Permit is also limited for 6 months, but after that time, the person can ask for the residence card.

I'm sorry, but I dont get your point of this facility to simply go to U.K and dont be banned. Where is the basis of this 'facility' in the U.K Border Agency, if it is as a real requirement that the family members get this EEA FP?

[mileve]

The reason you may want an EEA FP is if you are planning to immediately work in the UK.

But you submitted way to many documents.

Two passports, you marriage certificate, and a cover letter is all that is needed.

Thank you for your answers Directive,
And yes, my intention in U.K, besides to be together with my husband is to work there and also to study.
I understand what you say, because even in the UKBA website, when they are explaining about EEA FP and the documents necessary, they don't put that much,only in the guidance check list which they give tips about documents. But, I have heard many stories of people who were simply denied only because they didnt show enough documents.

[Directive/2004/38/EC]

The EEA FP is optional if you do not normally require a visa to enter the UK. You will be fully legally in the UK if you enter the UK with your husband.

You can then, if you want, get a Residence Card. But that is (somewhat) optional.

[mileve]

The EEA FP is optional if you do not normally require a visa to enter the UK. You will be fully legally in the UK if you enter the UK with your husband.

You can then, if you want, get a Residence Card. But that is (somewhat) optional.

I understand what you say. In fact, I already applied to EEA FP and Im just waiting the decision, and I fear it can be a negative one- by others unsuccessful experience.
About the residence card, is it not right to ask for this R.C once I would be alreayd in U.K? And my husband? Would he need to get this Residence Card? I think I have read in the UKBA that in case of EU nationals, after this 3 months of period, they should to registrate themselves in the Work Scheme, is that fine?

I have an aunt that for two times she wanted to go to U.K, she was not accepted, only after she did this process of visa in British Embassy in Brazil ( she was going to be with her boyfriend in that time).

[Directive/2004/38/EC]

There is not much benefit in your EU husband doing an application. But you can certainly apply for a RC, especially if you want to work in the UK.

You are married to a non-British EU citizen. That means you have a very strong right of free movement.
You may want to read through http://eumovement.wordpress.com/2010/08 ... to-travel/ as an example. Key is that you can prove your relationship to your husband by producing your marriage certificate.

[mileve]

There is not much benefit in your EU husband doing an application. But you can certainly apply for a RC, especially if you want to work in the UK.

You are married to a non-British EU citizen. That means you have a very strong right of free movement.
You may want to read through http://eumovement.wordpress.com/2010/08 ... to-travel/ as an example. Key is that you can prove your relationship to your husband by producing your marriage certificate.

Okay, Directive. Thank you for your kindness in answering, I am going to read what you have sent to me, and if I will have any doubt, I will post again.

[Directive/2004/38/EC]

With pleasure!

[mileve]

There is not much benefit in your EU husband doing an application. But you can certainly apply for a RC, especially if you want to work in the UK.

You are married to a non-British EU citizen. That means you have a very strong right of free movement.
You may want to read through http://eumovement.wordpress.com/2010/08 ... to-travel/ as an example. Key is that you can prove your relationship to your husband by producing your marriage certificate.

Oh, I have read the first 17 steps, and it sounds very troubling. I think it is not worthy to choose to experience such an umcomfortable situation in the border when you can easily be free of this showing the visa. And, as this tip below, it lets clear: it is not a guarantee.

"These are suggestions that may ease your entry without a visa. They should not be taken as legal advice and come with no guarantee. If you want a guarantee, get a visa!"

So, EEA FP continues being the Secure way to go to U.K.

Anyway, I know that your intention is to help, and I thank you for your attention!

But, my point is ( even I have submitted unnecessary documents) by what I have submitted, if it is 'generally clear' my possibiity to get my EEA FP?
If they give me a refusal, is it clear that they made a wrong decision by the documents I have submitted?

[Jambo]

"Jambo, Thank you for your answers.
I did read the FAQ link you sent me. But, My intention is not to visit U.K, but to remain with my husband until the period of time of work he will be working there. If I will go as visitor, it will be limited time. Anyway, the EEA Family Permit is also limited for 6 months, but after that time, the person can ask for the residence card.

I'm sorry, but I dont get your point of this facility to simply go to U.K and dont be banned. Where is the basis of this 'facility' in the U.K Border Agency, if it is as a real requirement that the family members get this EEA FP?

I never said you should enter as a visitor. What you do is to get the "EEA Family Permit stamp" at the border.

People normally apply for EEA Family Permit for two reasons:

- Their nationality requires them to have a visa to visit the UK. This means that they can't get on a flight without some kind of visa.
- They don't know that EEA Family Permit is optional and think they must have it if they move to the UK. This is not true.

Getting the stamp at the border is significantly less risky than applying for the Family Permit. If you are married and have your marriage certificate with you, they can't turn you back. They must let you in (unless they suspect you are a terrorist). While if you apply for the permit, they can refuse the application with weird reasons.

[Directive/2004/38/EC]

Getting the stamp at the border is significantly less risky than applying for the Family Permit. If you are married and have your marriage certificate with you, they can't turn you back. They must let you in (unless they suspect you are a terrorist). While if you apply for the permit, they can refuse the application with weird reasons.

They are not allowed to. But they often do in any case.

Go ahead with your already submitted application. And please never again submit so much extra stuff with your application!

[Jambo]

There is not much benefit in your EU husband doing an application. But you can certainly apply for a RC, especially if you want to work in the UK.

You are married to a non-British EU citizen. That means you have a very strong right of free movement.
You may want to read through http://eumovement.wordpress.com/2010/08 ... to-travel/ as an example. Key is that you can prove your relationship to your husband by producing your marriage certificate.

Oh, I have read the first 17 steps, and it sounds very troubling. I think it is not worthy to choose to experience such an umcomfortable situation in the border when you can easily be free of this showing the visa. And, as this tip below, it lets clear: it is not a guarantee.

"These are suggestions that may ease your entry without a visa. They should not be taken as legal advice and come with no guarantee. If you want a guarantee, get a visa!"

So, EEA FP continues being the Secure way to go to U.K.

Anyway, I know that your intention is to help, and I thank you for your attention!

But, my point is ( even I have submitted unnecessary documents) by what I have submitted, if it is 'generally clear' my possibiity to get my EEA FP?
If they give me a refusal, is it clear that they made a wrong decision by the documents I have submitted?

As my point above - I disagree with your assessment.

Anyway, the reasons for refusal should be rare. Going by the book, you should have no problem with the application. The only thing you really need to prove is that you are married. Normally, the visa staff in Poland know their stuff but sometimes there are strange surprises. I would not worry too much. If they refuse the application for some reason, just get on a plane and show up at the border.

[mileve]

"Jambo, Thank you for your answers.
I did read the FAQ link you sent me. But, My intention is not to visit U.K, but to remain with my husband until the period of time of work he will be working there. If I will go as visitor, it will be limited time. Anyway, the EEA Family Permit is also limited for 6 months, but after that time, the person can ask for the residence card.

I'm sorry, but I dont get your point of this facility to simply go to U.K and dont be banned. Where is the basis of this 'facility' in the U.K Border Agency, if it is as a real requirement that the family members get this EEA FP?

I never said you should enter as a visitor. What you do is to get the "EEA Family Permit stamp" at the border.

People normally apply for EEA Family Permit for two reasons:

- Their nationality requires them to have a visa to visit the UK. This means that they can't get on a flight without some kind of visa.
- They don't know that EEA Family Permit is optional and think they must have it if they move to the UK. This is not true.

Getting the stamp at the border is significantly less risky than applying for the Family Permit. If you are married and have your marriage certificate with you, they can't turn you back. They must let you in (unless they suspect you are a terrorist). While if you apply for the permit, they can refuse the application with weird reasons.

I understand what you say.
In the UKBA, it sounds it is crucial that any non-EEA National family member need to get this EEA FP before to go to U.K, and they do not let clear that the EEA FP is optional. Before I knew of the existence of this EEA FP, and I answered that small apllication in UKBA which says "Do I need a visa" and I submitted informations like :" National of Brazil, currently in Poland", they had showed me that I would need a visa, and if I would not know about EEA FP, I would have to pay even to get this visa to go there. Sometimes, I get confused, because in the whole site of UKBA, it shows highlightning the importance to get this visa to go there.

And this supposed " EEA FP stamp" that they would give me when I would be in the border, would give me the rights to work there?

[mileve]

There is not much benefit in your EU husband doing an application. But you can certainly apply for a RC, especially if you want to work in the UK.

You are married to a non-British EU citizen. That means you have a very strong right of free movement.
You may want to read through http://eumovement.wordpress.com/2010/08 ... to-travel/ as an example. Key is that you can prove your relationship to your husband by producing your marriage certificate.

Oh, I have read the first 17 steps, and it sounds very troubling. I think it is not worthy to choose to experience such an umcomfortable situation in the border when you can easily be free of this showing the visa. And, as this tip below, it lets clear: it is not a guarantee.

"These are suggestions that may ease your entry without a visa. They should not be taken as legal advice and come with no guarantee. If you want a guarantee, get a visa!"

So, EEA FP continues being the Secure way to go to U.K.

Anyway, I know that your intention is to help, and I thank you for your attention!

But, my point is ( even I have submitted unnecessary documents) by what I have submitted, if it is 'generally clear' my possibiity to get my EEA FP?
If they give me a refusal, is it clear that they made a wrong decision by the documents I have submitted?

As my point above - I disagree with your assessment.

Anyway, the reasons for refusal should be rare. Going by the book, you should have no problem with the application. The only thing you really need to prove is that you are married. Normally, the visa staff in Poland know their stuff but sometimes there are strange surprises. I would not worry too much. If they refuse the application for some reason, just get on a plane and show up at the border.

hahaha, your solution pleases me a lot if it WOULD be simple in that way.
Well, I will see what will be the decision, and hopefully it will be a positive one.
and tell me something, for the fact that my husband has applied his C.V to many british companies ( even though he had not got a lot of positive replies) it shows that he is doing the treaty rights, isnt it?

And, hypothetically, in basis of my documents given what could be their 'reason' of the refusal? our low value in my husband account?

[Directive/2004/38/EC]

Optional EEA FP: https://dl.dropbox.com/u/27885818/UK/le ... reeEEA.pdf

[mileve]

Getting the stamp at the border is significantly less risky than applying for the Family Permit. If you are married and have your marriage certificate with you, they can't turn you back. They must let you in (unless they suspect you are a terrorist). While if you apply for the permit, they can refuse the application with weird reasons.

They are not allowed to. But they often do in any case.

Go ahead with your already submitted application. And please never again submit so much extra stuff with your application!

Yes, I also have a sense that by the documents I have submitted it would be very weird if they would refuse it.
haha, okay, if I will need to do this process again ( I dont hope so!), I will be more carefull with it.

Thank you for the help

[Directive/2004/38/EC]

There is basically no legal grounds for them to refuse the EEA FP.

[Jambo]

They could only refuse the application if
- They think your passports are not genuine.
- They think your marriage is not genuine.
- You will be risk to national security or public health.

No other reason.

However, sometimes they make mistakes. This sometimes happens when you submit unnecessary documents. For some reason, they tend to pick up something in the evidence and use that (unlawfully) against you. This is less common for applications made in Europe.

As I said, don't worry.

The stamp at the order allows you to work from day 1 (exactly like the EEA Family Permit).

[mileve]

Optional EEA FP: https://dl.dropbox.com/u/27885818/UK/le ... reeEEA.pdf

Yes, I have read this letter until the impoirtant point.
It is optional, but, if the person already have it, the facility to be in U.K is better.
Thank you for sharing.

[mileve]

They could only refuse the application if
- They think your passports are not genuine.
- They think your marriage is not genuine.
- You will be risk to national security or public health.

No other reason.

However, sometimes they make mistakes. This sometimes happens when you submit unnecessary documents. For some reason, they tend to pick up something in the evidence and use that (unlawfully) against you. This is less common for applications made in Europe.

As I said, don't worry.

The stamp at the order allows you to work from day 1 (exactly like the EEA Family Permit).

I see, I understood your point. You may be really right.
Yes, I ll keep it on mind!
Once again thank you for the contribution!!
It was really appreaciated!

[mileve]

I am leaving now Directive and Jambo!

Thank you to help confusing people about all this requirement to get the EEA Family Permit.

Have a good night,

Kind Regards.

P.S: when I ll have my decision in hands, I will let you guys know.

Thanks!
See ya!

[mileve]

Gentlemen,

I have remembered something about my application.
When I was fulfilling my application and I didnt know about this first period of six months which is given, I submitted there the time of 4 years. Later, I have read about the EUN 2.1 and then in my covering letter, I clarified to them that even though I had submitted the 4 years in the application, I would respect the time which is given in the point EUN 2.1, and after this time, if me and my husband would not stabilize in U.K we would be back in Poland. So, in you guys point of view, is it okay and they are going to considerate my rectification in the covering letter?

And other point, about the condition that me and my husband would travel together to U.K without my EEA FP, they would require the same process about stay, money and so on to let us come in?

I'd be glad if you would help me with it
Thank you

[Jambo]

Gentlemen,

I have remembered something about my application.
When I was fulfilling my application and I didnt know about this first period of six months which is given, I submitted there the time of 4 years. Later, I have read about the EUN 2.1 and then in my covering letter, I clarified to them that even though I had submitted the 4 years in the application, I would respect the time which is given in the point EUN 2.1, and after this time, if me and my husband would not stabilize in U.K we would be back in Poland. So, in you guys point of view, is it okay and they are going to considerate my rectification in the covering letter?

How long you plan to stay (regardless of what you wrote) should not be a deciding factor in issuing a EEA Family Permit.
There is no point in speculating what will happen. Best to wait for the decision (it normally takes 2-3 weeks). Don't stress yourself on this and try to think on other things.

And other point, about the condition that me and my husband would travel together to U.K without my EEA FP, they would require the same process about stay, money and so on to let us come in?

There isn't any "process about stay, money and so on". The only thing you need to show is your marriage certificate. This is true for both the EEA Family Permit and the entry at the border. All the rest is irrelevant.