IntegratedMigrant Q&As

[IntegratedMigrant]

At the time of refusal to the UK, were you married, were you travelling together? If so, the entry should have been allowed.

It wouldn't EUsmile, this is wrong. If you are a non-eu married to an Irish, there is no way you can gain entry to the UK or any other country without visa. You are not allowed to travel to Belfast with a Visa! even with your Irish partner.. This is one of the discrimination against spouse of Irish nationals here in Ireland. There are many others, if you wish to know.

Supposedly he is married to an EU national who is not Irish, then he can travel to any EU states without restriction, he can get Free Fees Education, He will get 4EUFAM endorsed on his GNIB card and not Stamp 4, he will get permanent residence after divorce of a marriage that last up to 3 years,etc .An Irish spouse will get NONE!

Note: The only situation were travelling together is beneficial to Spouse of Irish National is that the Visa fees will be waived.

[EUsmileWEallsmile]

At the time of refusal to the UK, were you married, were you travelling together? If so, the entry should have been allowed.

It wouldn't EUsmile, this is wrong.

Please do some research prior to posting (ref article 5.4 of dir 2004/38/EC and btw the UK is in compliance on this particular point and also MRAX / Metcock).

[IntegratedMigrant]

Please do some research prior to posting (ref article 5.4 of dir 2004/38/EC and btw the UK is in compliance on this particular point and also MRAX / Metcock).

The article above may have existed but not practiced.

[EUsmileWEallsmile]

Please do some research prior to posting (ref article 5.4 of dir 2004/38/EC and btw the UK is in compliance on this particular point and also MRAX / Metcock).

The article above may have existed but not practiced. I am a spouse of an Irish national myself and the UK embassy have told me numerous times that regardless the situation, I can never travel to UK without a valid visa. 2 months ago I went to Belfast with a Visa as it is an offense not to do so.

Hell, I was once refused a Visa when I wanted to travel to UK with my Irish wife simply bcos I dont have enough money in my bank account. When I mean enough I mean the amount specified by the UK embassy.

Again I have been to so many EU countries and whenever I ring their embassies, they all tell me the same story (A visa is required for spouse of Irish National)

Irish Nationals are EU-Nationals, but that does not apply in some cases to spouse of an Irish Nationals. Again what I am stating is a fact as it is implemented by the UK embassy and am a living witness to that.

Whatever your personal practical experience, if you care to read the directive; MRAX; Metock; you should see that there is a difference between being asked to have a visa in advance and not actually having one. The fact that one does not have a visa, does not preclude one from obtaining one at the border or even a residence card after entry if one passes it. This applies to all EU citizen's family members and the Irish are not discrimated against.

Now, please let the OP answer the question they were asked. Thanks.

[IntegratedMigrant]

Thank you for your reply. He has no offense. The only situation that might cause worry is in 2007 we went to my sisters wedding in the UK, he was stopped in emigration and was not allowed entry as he did not have the correct visa to enter uk for short stay. He was held overnight and returned to Ireland next day. We got a letter recently from the citizenship office about this and we responded with a letter stating reasons why etc.
They say they take their relations with the Uk very seriously.
He has travelled through the Uk multiple times previously. We hope this does not affect his application. As it was just a case of not having the correct entry visa at the time.
Do you think this would cause refusal of application ?

At the time of refusal to the UK, were you married, were you travelling together? If so, the entry should have been allowed.

Courtesy of EUsmiles

[IntegratedMigrant]

This is right.

If you try to enter an EU member state with your EU spouse and you do not have a required visa, border officials must let you in if you can prove that you are married. See http://eumovement.wordpress.com/2010/08 ... to-travel/

This applies fully if you have an Irish spouse and try to enter the UK.

My wife and I entered Ireland on this basis in 2007!

The non-EU spouse was improperly denied entry to Ireland and in fact detained. The Irish government was ordered to pay 7500 euro, which is a small compensation. See http://courts.ie/Judgments.nsf/09859e7a ... enDocument

I have no doubt that these EU rules and regulations exists, but countries have had time practicing them. They simply dont want to practice these rules and they want everybody to apply for visa prior to their entry

One of the reasons is that the embassy for instance need so many documents from non-eu spouse including bank statement before they can issue you with a visa. Now you may not have all these documents with you when seeking entry in their immigration entry port and that could lead to refusal.

Excluding officials, Non-EU spouses or Irish national regardless of their status have 99% chance of being refused at the port of entry in UK. And that's regardless of their status.

Eg. A non-eu spouse of a German national can travel to all member states including UK without restrictions if he can prove that he is traveling with his wife.

This dont not apply to a non-eu spouse of an Irish National

[IntegratedMigrant]

Thank you all for your replies. Yes we are married since 2003 so we were married at the time. We had return flights together to Ireland but he was still refused entry. I will never forget the heartbreak it caused at the time. His UK entry visa was out of date at the time which was an oversight on our parts. But was a genuine mistake as we had travelled to the UK before.

It has opened my eyes to the way people with different nationalities are treated so unfairly.

I feel you pain. Spouse of Irish nationals dont qualify for Free Fees in Ireland but Spouse of other EU nationals do!. Also children of the Spouse of an Irish National also wont qualify for Free Fees if they are not Naturalised yet.

You husband have Stamp 4 and not 4EUFAM endorsed on his GNIB card and that restricts his from Going to other member states freely just like a Spouse of a French, Italian, Polish etc national would.

Note: Free Fees rule is that EU family members could get free fees. An Spouse of an Irish is an EU Family member but are still denied their rights and could not get free fees in Ireland!.

This rule was set by the Department of Education in Ireland to deny Irish Spouses and their non Irish children free fees.

Note: 4EUFAM means Non-EEA family member of EEA citizen. 4EUFAM (that is, the residence card of a family member of an EU citizen)
Stamp 4 simply means Non-EEA spouse of Irish citizen, Refugee, Non-EEA person granted family reunification under the Refugee Act 1996, Work Permit etc.. which is how Spouses of Irish National are categorised.

Stamps Issued to Spouse of Nationals in Ireland do not convey that they are EU family members

Despite being married to an EU citizen(Irish), Spouse of Irish National do not have the same Stamp as of EEA Spouses. That is why Spouse of Irish Nationals do not enjoy the same rights as of EEA Spouses!

[Directive/2004/38/EC]

I have no doubt that these EU rules and regulations exists, but countries have had time practicing them. They simply dont want to practice these rules and they want everybody to apply for visa prior to their entry

One of the reasons is that the embassy for instance need so many documents from non-eu spouse including bank statement before they can issue you with a visa. Now you may not have all these documents with you when seeking entry in their immigration entry port and that could lead to refusal.

Excluding officials, Non-EU spouses or Irish national regardless of their status have 99% chance of being refused at the port of entry in UK. And that's regardless of their status.

Eg. A non-eu spouse of a German national can travel to all member states including UK without restrictions if he can prove that he is traveling with his wife.

This dont not apply to a non-eu spouse of an Irish National

I have highlighted the portions of what you wrote that is just simply wrong. Please do not mislead people.

The non-EU spouse of an Irish national entering the UK is treated exactly the same way as the non-EU spouse of an German national.

[IntegratedMigrant]

I have highlighted the portions of what you wrote that is just simply wrong. Please do not mislead people.

The non-EU spouse of an Irish national entering the UK is treated exactly the same way as the non-EU spouse of an German national.

Can you kindly please explain to me the meaning of 4EUFAM issued to Spouse of EU Citizens and Stamp 4 issued to Spouse of Irish Nationals?

Can you also tell me where both are being utilised as an advantage?

Like I said, I know the EU rules exists, but many countries simply aren't practicing them. I dont see anything misleading about that

As a family member of an EU Citizen, can you also tell me why Spouse of an EU citizens get Free Fees and Spouse of an Irish citizens dont?

Whist explaining that, you will find what you needed to know.

I also dont get the point of you highlighting my comments when you dont highlight this "Eg. A non-eu spouse of a German national can travel to all member states including UK without restrictions if he can prove that he is traveling with his wife. "

Note: 4EUFAM means Non-EEA family member of EEA citizen. 4EUFAM (that is, the residence card of a family member of an EU citizen)
Stamp 4 simply means Non-EEA spouse of Irish citizen, Refugee, Non-EEA person granted family reunification under the Refugee Act 1996, Work Permit etc.. which is how Spouses of Irish National are categorised.

[IntegratedMigrant]

[quote="Directive/2004/38/EC"][/quote]

Can you take some time to answer my questions if you dont mind? Enlighten me.

[Directive/2004/38/EC]

The non-EU spouse of an Irish national entering the UK is treated exactly the same way as the non-EU spouse of an German national.

Can you take some time to answer my questions if you dont mind? Enlighten me.

I think what I wrote was pretty clear. If you want a bigger discussion, please start up a new separate thread. But the bottom line is that all EU citizens (and their family members) should be treated the same when they are outside of their home member state: Irish citizens included.

[IntegratedMigrant]

I think what I wrote was pretty clear. If you want a bigger discussion, please start up a new separate thread. But the bottom line is that all EU citizens (and their family members) should be treated the same when they are outside of their home member state: Irish citizens included.

Thanks for your reply. Im not gonna start a new separate thread as I have already won this discussion. You still did not get to answer my questions which was crucial to this Thread.

Supposedly you were to answer them, which I suppose deep research would have be made, you would have had better understanding about so called Family Members of EU citizens and the rights they were given in Ireland compared to other EU Family members.
Ah well, I rest my case

[Directive/2004/38/EC]

I have already won this discussion.

You have definitely won something! I am not sure why, but I am smiling!

[frei]

IntegratedMigrant. You have to desist from your scaremongering or rather ill informed posts , you seems to know little about either the Irish immigration rules or the EU immigration rules, if only you will try to learn you shall realize the obvious immediate advantages of the EU rules.

You can start by doing a swift google search on Raducan and Raducan v MJELR, a judgement by Justice G Hogan, OP's husband would indeed not have entered the UK illegally and if refused citizenship on that basis would be able to pursue a successful JR no question at all in my mind about this. The INIS knows and would not pursue another flawed case after last month bashing at the supreme court by Justice Hardiman J.

Ordinary Stamp4 holders are required to have a re-entry visa to Ireland whilst 4EUFAM holders cannot be subjected to this nonsense, my friend made an application to Irish embassy as a spouse of British (EU) citizen to which he received a visa in lieu with the stated directives with just marriage certificate, photocopy of wife's passport wake up dude it's 2013, you seems to be the only one who thought Ireland has not implemented the directive.

I have a correspondence from the Irish embassy in Berlin where they illogically stated I would need a visa for Ireland, after a back and forth messages they back down logically to backtrack from their previous grounds, I am a visa national of course married to a British with a German residence card.

DO NOT POST ABOUT THINGS YOU HAVE NO KNOWLEDGE ABOUT. IT IS IMPORTANT FOR PEOPLE WHO MIGHT TAKE YOU SERIOUSLY AND WOULD BE SUBSEQUENTLY MISLED.

[frei]

delete

[frei]

How is this possible? have you personally had an experience? your friend or something? Just as well you don't read before your post you'd be shocked at the low standard. Go on the UKBA website and educate yourself, also search this forum and other fora, and see how many visa national of EU spouses had been admitted to the UK in the past without a visa. there is something called code 1A you know? to be honest you are disturbingly annoying,

IntegratedMigrant: Excluding officials, Non-EU spouses or Irish national regardless of their status have 99% chance of being refused at the port of entry in UK. And that's regardless of their status

[IntegratedMigrant]

Firstly I thought the discussion on this thread is closed?

Where under Gods hot sun do you come from? You' re in Deutschland and you' re telling me how immigration works in Ireland? Really?

Ordinary Stamp4 holders are required to have a re-entry visa to Ireland whilst 4EUFAM holders cannot be subjected to this nonsense.

If you first language is English or you could read properly, you should have know that that was the point I was trying to make.

You said that 4EUFAM holders cannot be subjected to this nonsense? well Spouse of Irish Nationals dont have 4EUFAM card, mark. What they do have is Stamp 4 which means that they are subjected to nonsense as you've written yourself.

Please read the post clearly and have excellent knowledge about Irish immigration before written on this Forum

[frei]

As you would have noticed English is not my first Language nor my second Language, in fact I struggle trying to express myself in English as people can barely comprehend anything I say, I will gladly accept an offer of tutorial from you. That said, nothing you have said seems to rebuff any of the points raised in my post, perhaps I would write to you in Ghanian if that would make much sense to you.

[IntegratedMigrant]

Go on the UKBA website and educate yourself, also search this forum and other fora, and see how many visa national of EU spouses had been admitted to the UK in the past without a visa.

Hello mark, we were talking generally about Spouse of Irish Nationals not Spouse of other EU Nationals. There is what they call EU-treaty and Spouse of Irish Nationals dont have that Mark.

I will write very clearly and simple so that you can u.n.d.e.r.s.t.a.n.d.

Spouses of Irish National dont Have 4EUFAM GNIB card which allows them to travel freely just like other Spouse EU-Nationals.

4EUFAM indicates that the person is a family member of an EU National and Stamp 4 doesn't!. 4EUFAM means that the family member is exercising his/her rights of free movement and Stamp 4 doesn't.
Stamp 4 is issued to a Spouse of an Irish National and thats why its difficult for them to exercise their rights

Hope I dont write that in German for you to understand

[IntegratedMigrant]

As you would have noticed English is not my first Language nor my second Language, in fact I struggle trying to express myself in English as people can barely comprehend anything I say, I will gladly accept an offer of tutorial from you. That said, nothing you have said seems to rebuff any of the points raised in my post, perhaps I would write to you in Ghanian if that would make much sense to you.

Well im glad that you admit that. Just try and understand properly next time or even try and translate in German so you could understand, before calling me names!

[Directive/2004/38/EC]

I will write very clearly and simple so that you can u.n.d.e.r.s.t.a.n.d.

Hope I dont write that in German for you to understand

Apparently neither of you are native English speakers. But you are being quite rude to everyone IntegratedMigrant, and it is not needed.

You are right that non-EU family members of Irish citizens do not have a Residence Card (4EUFam) when they are all living in Ireland, but they can fully exercise their treaty rights as soon as they leave Ireland and enter the UK.

[frei]

(IntigratedMigrant) So much for you for been a guru, it appears you probably know much about this topic than anyone on this forum, who was not intimidated by your self professed knowledge of the Irish immigration, that they actually took the trouble to read through your disjointed and inaccurate posts.

I bow to your superior knowledge and would not presume to pass further comments.

[IntegratedMigrant]

But you are being quite rude to everyone IntegratedMigrant, and it is not needed.

who was not intimidated by your self professed knowledge of the Irish immigration, that they actually took the trouble to read through your disjointed and inaccurate posts.

you seems to know little about either the Irish immigration rules or the EU immigration rules, if only you will try to learn you shall realize the obvious immediate advantages of the EU rules.

DO NOT POST ABOUT THINGS YOU HAVE NO KNOWLEDGE ABOUT. IT IS IMPORTANT FOR PEOPLE WHO MIGHT TAKE YOU SERIOUSLY AND WOULD BE SUBSEQUENTLY MISLED.

Just as well you don't read before your post you'd be shocked at the low standard. Go on the UKBA website and educate yourself

to be honest you are disturbingly annoying

perhaps I would write to you in Ghanian if that would make much sense to you

Please Directive/2004/38/EC, how could you say that I am being quite rude when someone like Frei was clearly very very insulting? lets call a spade a spade!

Despite Frei's insults, he later acknowledged how clueless and wrong he was.

Apparently neither of you are native English speakers.

You dont know where am from, so don't presume that I am not a native English speaker.

You are right that non-EU family member of Irish citizens do not have a Residence Card (4EUFam) when they are all living in Ireland, but they can fully exercise their treaty rights as soon as they leave Ireland and enter the UK.

Again non-EU family members and their Irish Spouses cannot simply fully exercise their treaty rights as soon as they leave Ireland and enter the UK or other EU countries.

Non-EU family members along with their Irish partners have to be residents in the UK or other EU countries with a resident permit. That's only when the non-EU family members of an Irish Citizen can be issued with a 4EUFAM.

Please give me full credit, I deserve it!. I know you are a Guru, no doubt about that, but im simply awesome

[EUsmileWEallsmile]

@IntegratedMigrant, if you wish to continue discussing matters unrelated to the OP's thread, then please continue here.