EU1 residence card for non EU partner

[Marbles]

Hello,

Apologies if this question has been asked a thousand times before, I tried to find a thread with the info but was unsuccessful.
My partner applied for a EU1 residence card (stamp 4) in Sept. She got the temporary stamp 4 while they are processing her application and this one expires on 22.02.2013.
Just wondering, hopefully we will get good news, how long are the stamp 4's generally issued for in the case of an EU1? Is it for a year and then you need to reapply or is it up to the discretion of the EU Treaty Rights people?

Thanks in advance for your replies .

[agniukas]

when you submit an EU1 application form, you get temporary stamp 4 for 6 months. if the application os granted, then you get 5 years on Stamp 4EUFAM. If you have to change passport within those 5 years, then you go again with your spouse and the letter and the new passport, and get the remainder of the 5 years in the new passport.

[Marbles]

when you submit an EU1 application form, you get temporary stamp 4 for 6 months. if the application os granted, then you get 5 years on Stamp 4EUFAM. If you have to change passport within those 5 years, then you go again with your spouse and the letter and the new passport, and get the remainder of the 5 years in the new passport.

Ah thanks for your reply agniukas that's good to know. Her passport doesn't expire for another 7 years so we're good there. Thanks again for the info, fingers crossed!

[IQU]

good luck

[Marbles]

Thanks IQU. I guess just to share our experience so far so others are aware. We had initially applied for her to get a De facto visa as we were together 2,5 yes at the time (September) and then they came back after 2 weeks advising her to apply for EU1 residence card. I found this strange as I thought we were applying for the right thing but according to DOJ we had to reapply via EU treaty rights so we did that so hopefully it will get approved.

[agniukas]

general immigration only deals with de facto relationships with irish nationals. I am guessing you are EU citizen but not irish, therefore, they refered you to EUTR

[Marbles]

That could be it. I am an Irish citizen but not in possession of an Irish passport. I have a Dutch passport but am Irish through my mother as she is Irish. So perhaps the reason the EU Treaty guys are dealing with it is because I have a Dutch passport?

[jeupsy]

That could be it. I am an Irish citizen but not in possession of an Irish passport. I have a Dutch passport but am Irish through my mother as she is Irish. So perhaps the reason the EU Treaty guys are dealing with it is because I have a Dutch passport?

The case of dual citizenship is not very clear. The UK clearly refuses to proccess Treaty Rights applications for peopel who are both British and citizen of an other EU country, but in other place there is not clear information (though nothing in he EU directive saying you can't apply for EUTR).

Anyway, your partner will actully get more rights with the EU TR residance, so if they told you to apply for that one it is good for you guys

[Marbles]

Ah thats good to know cheers jeupsy, fingers crossed! Will keep you guys posted!

[Marbles]

She got it guys! Approval came in letter yesterday 25/02 so 3 days late but with good news 4EUFAM stamp granted for 5 years so happy days! Thanks for all your help on here with info and good luck to everyone else awaiting news on their applications!

[jeupsy]

She got it guys! Approval came in letter yesterday 25/02 so 3 days late but with good news 4EUFAM stamp granted for 5 years so happy days! Thanks for all your help on here with info and good luck to everyone else awaiting news on their applications!

Glad to hear that!
My parner got hers last week ... the letter also came 3 days after the expiry of the temporary Samp 4, I guess they are accurate at beeign late!

[Marbles]

Great news for you too jeupsy. Yeah I guess they like making us sweat! Hey just a question, my partner and I haven't got married yet nor had a civil partnership so she is not my spouse (we specified this also on our application). Does that pose any problems? Are you in the same situation?

[Marbles]

And with problems I mean, for travel to other EU states?

[jeupsy]

We have the exact same question as yours (we are not married either)

I am not 100% sure but my understanding is that as holders of EU FAM cards they should be allowed to travel to other EU countries without a visa as long as we are also traveling with them. The problem is that the GNIB card doesn't say who is the EU family member, so most countries will require to produce a mariage certificate along with the card - which we obviously don't have :-s (and also as you also noticed sometimes ambassies they say the visa exemption is for "spouses of family members of a Union citizen" which is not very clear in our case ...)

As we are planning holidays to these countries, I sent emails to the UK embassy and the Portugal embassy yesterday to describe the situation and ask they to cofirm she will be able to enter visa free. I told them we can produce the INIS decision letter as a evidence that I am the EU citizen "family member". If they reply, I will post what they say here.

[Marbles]

Ah yeah I see...So we're in the same boat We're planning a holiday to Germany end of April so we have emailed the German Embassy as well just to get clarification. I actually found a very useful PDF document earlier "Guide on how to get the best out of Directive 2004/38/EC and in there it says the following:

"Your registered partner enjoys the same right as other family members in the Member States which do not treat registered partnerships as equivalent to marriage.
The same goes also for your partner with whom you have a durable duly attested relationship. This concept of partnership covers same and different sex partnerships and de facto partnerships, such as cohabitation.
This group of family members and partners has no 'automatic' Community right to accompany or join you but their rights are subject to the Member State's discretion."

Then it goes on to say.....

"They have the right to have entry and residence facilitated and the host Member State should recognise their status as your de facto family member and treat them on the same footing as your other family members.
The Member State is therefore obliged to undertake an extensive examination of their personal circumstances and refusal of entry and residence to those family members must be justified, notified in writing and is subject to an appeal."

You can find this pdf on link: http://ec.europa.eu/justice/citizen/fil ... _ec_en.pdf

I have printed off the pdf document and will be bringing it everywhere with us along with the INIS letter proving that she is a "family member" of an EU citizen, that being me

[jeupsy]

Yeah I guess we can share our traveling experiences

Thanks for the link, I had seen other EU documents about this before, but that one is a bit more clear regarding the rights of de-facto parters.

I think in theory it *should* be fine, but I am a bit affraid of being prevented from boarding by an airline staff in charge of checking visas and who doesn't know the law, or to waste a few hours at the border of a country while the border control people are double checking the rules in case they are not familiar with them.

Maybe the safe way is to try to have the embassies issue visas as the should be free of charge and the document you linked says that in order to obtain it "Your family members cannot be asked to present documents such as travel tickets, employment certificate, pay slips, bank statements, proof of accommodation and means of subsistence or a medical certificate" - ie they *should* be easy to obtain.

[Marbles]

Exactly, those are my fears too because in most cases the airline staff haven't got a clue of the law. One time we were in Germany and ready to board our plane back to Ireland and I was asked if I needed a visa for Ireland!! and me being a Dutch EU national. My partner had a student visa for Ireland at the time and they looked at it and still said they needed to check with Immigration in Dublin Airport on whether she could enter the country. So I don't want to relive that moment, hence I emailed the embassy to see what they will come back with and I completely agree on the issuing of a free visa in this case.
Keep me posted on any updates and I will be sure to do the same!

[Directive/2004/38/EC]

Exactly, those are my fears too because in most cases the airline staff haven't got a clue of the law.

I would actually say that some of the big airlines have a decent sense of it, but rarely related to free movement within Europe.

[Marbles]

Jeupsy, I got the following reply from German Embassy. Looks like our partners would still need a visa.

My initial enquiry:

Dies ist ein Formular der: dublin

Address: Ms
Name:
First name:
City :
Country : Ireland
Tel./Fax :
E-Mail: marh17@hotmail.com <mailto:marh17@hotmail.com>
Text: Dear Madam or Sir,

My girlfriend (Fiji citizen) and myself (Dutch) would like to
visit Germany for a 4 day trip in April.

My girlfriend is in posession of an Irish EU4-Fam-card.

Will she have to apply for a visa to visit Germany if she is
travelling together with me? If yes, could you please outline the
procedure?
Thanks and regards,
xxx

1st reply from Embassy:

Dear xxxxx,

Thank you for your e-mail.
Can you please inform me on which basis your friend got her GNIB Card
with the Stamp 4EUFAM (ie Marriage with an EU National, etc)?

In general your friend will not require a visa, if she is travelling i.e. with her EU Spouse and therefore uses the right of free movement within the Schengen Countries.
In the case, that she does not travel with her spouse, she will require a visa.

I am looking forward to your response in order to give you a more
detailed and specific answer to your query, as right now I do not know
the circumstances of her case.

Mit freundlichen Grüßen
Kind regards
xxxxxxx

My second reply:

Hello xxxxx,

Thank you for your reply.

She was given the 4EUFAM stamp based on our relationship as she is my
girlfriend (de facto partner).
She is my partner however not a registered partner (yet) in other
words, we do not have a civil partnership certificate or marriage
certificate but she was provided the stamp based on our durable duly attested relationship.

I understand that EU spouse's are exempt from requiring a visa if they
are married to an EU national however, in our case, where no marriage/civil partnership exists but a de facto partnership, will
that mean she is also exempt from requiring a visa or would she be
eligible for a visa free of charge based on her 4EUFAM status?

Thanks and best regards,
xxxx

Reply from Embassy:

Dear xxxx,

Thank you for getting back to me.

In that case, your partner has to apply for a visa for Germany which can
not be issued free of charge, as we require either the Marriage or Civil
Partnership Certificate.
Please see our website for information on visa applications:
http://www.dublin.diplo.de/Vertretung/d ... _Visa.html

Please note that you will need to book an appointment to submit your
application at the Embassy. Please do so on our website as well:
https://service2.diplo.de/rktermin/exte ... _locale=en

Mit freundlichen Grüßen
Kind regards
xxxx

[jeupsy]

Thanks for posting their reply here ... even though I don't like it too much :-s (none only the fact that she can't tavel without a visa, but also the fact that they won't issue a quick and free visas basd on the EU directive). I think they are incorrect in saying that you need to be married to be entitle to this ... but getting them to change their mind is not exactly easy.

I am still waiting for the Portuguese and British embassies to get back to me, I'll definitly report back here if they provide an answer.

[jeupsy]

And also - FYI I submitted the following request to the Your Europe Advice service. I will let you know what they say.

Dear Sir/Madam,

Myself and my partner would like to visit Portugal and the UK for holidays and I have a question with regards to visa-waiver rights provided by the EU free movement directive.

I am French and residing in Ireland with my Chinese partner, who holds a 5 years Irish GNIB card with "Stamp 4 EU FAM" based on our relationship (that is an Irish residence card for a family member of an EU citizen as defined by European directive 2004/38/EC : http://eur-lex.europa.eu/LexUriServ/Lex ... 123:en:PDF). We are not married but she still qualifies for that type of residence card as we can justify more than 2 years of attested relationship and common residence (the EU directive includes such non-married partners in the definition of family members).

The EU directive also specifies that holders of such residence cards should be able to travel to other European countries that their country of residance without the requirement to obtain a visa as long as they are accompanied by their EU family member during the trip. It is my impression that de-facto partners are included in the definition of family members as long as they can document a long term relashionship (which is what we did to obtain her Irish residance card).

Based on this, my understanding is that as long as we are traveling together she does not need a visa to enter Portugal or the UK. Could you confirm this is correct?

Also, as there is a requirement to travel with the EU family member but the residence card doesn't specify the name of that family member, I was wondering if the border control officer will require a proof that I am the person who sponsored her to get the card. And if yes would the letter from the Irish immigration services which confirms the decision to grant her the residence card based on the directive and gives my name as the EU family member be an acceptable proof?

Thank you in advance for your reply.

[jeupsy]

No news from the other embassies, but I also emailed Denmark this weekend as we were thinking about going there as well (any country that looks nice enough and will let us go for a long easter weekend without having to worry about a visa in the next few weeks ).

They got back to me very quickly and with a clear and good (to us) answer:

If you partner holds a GNIB Card with stamp EUFam4 and is traveling with you she does not require a visa to visit Denmark.

Regards,

XXX / XXX@UM.DK
CONSULAR OFFICER / VISA SECTION

Then I got back to them and asked:

Thank you very much XXX for getting back quickly, this is great news.

Just one thing I would like to clarify to be sure we have everythih and don't get stuck at the border. The GNIB Card with stamp EUFam4 does not have my name on it (it only has the name of the holder, not the one of their EU family member). Will the border control officer require a proof that I am the person she is allowed to travel with? (as we are not married we can't show a mariage certificate, but we have a decision letter from the Irish immigration services giving my name and cofiming that the EUFam4 is granted to her based on our elashionship, would that be acceptable?)

Regards,
XXX

And they confirmed:

You should bring the letter from the Irish Immigration Service with you when you travel.

Regards,

XXX / XXX@UM.DK
CONSULAR OFFICER / VISA SECTION

So it looks like we found our first country which does say it is following the EU directive for unmarried partners

[Marbles]

Thanks Jeupsy thats good to know that for Denmark our partners won't be needing it
Also, am I correct in saying that they are exempt from having to pay the 300 euro for the GNIB with 4EUFAM?

Registration

Immigration Certificates of Registration issued to non-EEA nationals

Legally resident non-EEA nationals who have entered the State with the intention of residing in Ireland for a period of more than three months must register with their local immigration registration officer. An immigration certificate of registration (GNIB Registration Card) is issued by the Garda National Immigration Bureau to a non-EEA national who so registers.

A fee of €300 is charged in respect of each immigration certificate of registration issued to a non-EEA national with effect from 19 November 2012. Certain classes of person are exempt from payment as follows:
1.
Convention Refugees;

2.
Persons who have been reunified with such refugees under section 18 of the Refugee Act 1996;

3.
Persons who are under 18 years of age at the time of registration;

4.
Spouses, widows and widowers of Irish citizens;

5.
Civil partners or surviving civil partners within the meaning of the Civil Partnership and Certain Rights and Obligations of Cohabitants Act 2010 of Irish citizens;

6.
Spouses and Dependants of EU nationals who receive a residence permit under EU Directive 38/04;

7.
Programme Refugees, as defined by section 24 of the Refugee Act, 1996.

[Marbles]

I replied back to the German Embassy with similar reply as what you have written below, quoting the European Directive, perhaps it will clarify and they will come back with a better answer

And also - FYI I submitted the following request to the Your Europe Advice service. I will let you know what they say.

Dear Sir/Madam,

Myself and my partner would like to visit Portugal and the UK for holidays and I have a question with regards to visa-waiver rights provided by the EU free movement directive.

I am French and residing in Ireland with my Chinese partner, who holds a 5 years Irish GNIB card with "Stamp 4 EU FAM" based on our relationship (that is an Irish residence card for a family member of an EU citizen as defined by European directive 2004/38/EC : http://eur-lex.europa.eu/LexUriServ/Lex ... 123:en:PDF). We are not married but she still qualifies for that type of residence card as we can justify more than 2 years of attested relationship and common residence (the EU directive includes such non-married partners in the definition of family members).

The EU directive also specifies that holders of such residence cards should be able to travel to other European countries that their country of residance without the requirement to obtain a visa as long as they are accompanied by their EU family member during the trip. It is my impression that de-facto partners are included in the definition of family members as long as they can document a long term relashionship (which is what we did to obtain her Irish residance card).

Based on this, my understanding is that as long as we are traveling together she does not need a visa to enter Portugal or the UK. Could you confirm this is correct?

Also, as there is a requirement to travel with the EU family member but the residence card doesn't specify the name of that family member, I was wondering if the border control officer will require a proof that I am the person who sponsored her to get the card. And if yes would the letter from the Irish immigration services which confirms the decision to grant her the residence card based on the directive and gives my name as the EU family member be an acceptable proof?

Thank you in advance for your reply.

[jeupsy]

Yes, as far as I understand there is nothing to pay as the directive does not allow to charge for the residance cards (even though in some places the wording is a bit unfortunate and does not clearly mention de-facto partners). Also I guess if they had wanted us to pay something, they would have asked us to do it before issuing the GNIB cards