Waiting for DoJ decision under Zambrano, can I

iwonderwhy · Post by **iwonderwhy** » Tue Jan 29, 2013 3:41 pm

I am an illegal alien, have been in Ireland for 6 years. I stay with a relative. Came to Ireland with my son and daughter (non-Irish). Last year gave birth to twins (father is Irish) we do not leave together though, thereafter I applied under Zambrano.

My application has been with DoJ for the last 8 months and still waiting for a decision.

The problem my kids have lived basically out of handouts from my relative, I would get money here and there. Never claimed social (no gnib) now things are getting hard for my relative and is now often suggesting i go to my Local Office to ask for financial help.

i feel uncomfortable with this as i feel it will affect my application. Never claimed Child Benefit for all my children so its really a struggle.

Is it better to wait for a decision under Zambrano, or should I go to SWA/SWO.

Please advice a sister out.

Brigid from Ireland · Post by **Brigid from Ireland** » Tue Jan 29, 2013 10:49 pm

The twins have an Irish father, so they should get Irish passports. Once they have Irish passports, their mother cannot easily be deported, as this would deprive them of their right to live in Ireland.

My personal opinion is that you might as well go to the social welfare office and register as a lone parent, and look for payment of lone parent money. The reason is that you are currently declaring no income, and this will not help with sorting out your Zambrano.

If you decide to claim money as a lone parent, you should make it clear that you are trying to become self supporting - you should declare a small income from some sort of self employment, as this shows that you are trying to support yourself and the children. In addition, if you declare an income from self employment, this may make it possible for you to claim child benefit, which is not subject to habitual residence or means tests. This is 130/month per child, so with four children it is 130/week. Even that amount is well worth getting, so go to citizens information and ask them to help you fill up the forms to say you are self employed. Then ask them about lone parents and supplementary welfare payments and child benefit also.

Brigid from Ireland · Post by **Brigid from Ireland** » Tue Jan 29, 2013 10:55 pm

There is another option.

Is there any possibility that the Irish father of the children would be able to claim Family Income Supplement (if he is in a low paid job) or that he would be able to to add you and the children to his social welfare claim (if he is on welfare)?

Or alternatively could any new boyfriend (if you have one) claim for you and your children as a dependent?

iwonderwhy · Post by **iwonderwhy** » Wed Jan 30, 2013 9:40 am

Hi thanks for the reply, can't apply for child benefit as I do not have a GNIB card. The father for the twins is not on social, we never lived together. I'm afraid to apply for lone parents as they may ask to submit docs. I don't have.

I don't know what to do as my older children attend primary and their transport, food etc is getting more expensive.

Should. I go to the local office or perhaps it's better to wait for decision from doj? (don't know for how long it will take )

Brigid from Ireland · Post by **Brigid from Ireland** » Fri Feb 01, 2013 10:10 pm

The father of the twins can apply for child benefit (130/child/month).

He is Irish so he can apply - if he is not on welfare he must be working, so he can send in a copy of his payslip and a copy of the birth certs to get the child benefit. (He can then give the child benefit to you).

Child benefit is easier to get than lone parents - if you can't get child benefit it will be difficult to get lone parents. You can always apply, but they will definitely look for documents if you apply.

It is quite usual for Eastern European fathers working in Ireland to claim child benefit for children living in Poland, so fathers can claim child benefit, even if the child does not live with them. The father just needs to be Irish/EU citizen (or have work permit) and working in Ireland.

ImmigrationLawyer · Post by **ImmigrationLawyer** » Sat Feb 02, 2013 9:21 am

Brigid, I don't think the AP is with the father of her youngest kids any more. Yes, "iwonderwhy" you should apply for a payment. It may not be accepted, but it is worth pursuing. When did you submit your Zambrano application? Processing is currently taking 3-6 months, but can be up to 12 months. You need to press them for a decision!

iwonderwhy · Post by **iwonderwhy** » Sat Feb 02, 2013 8:37 pm

True, ImmigrarttionLawyer. No longer with the baby (ies) daddy. I applied end of June last (8 months). I have sent DoJ letters asking how long does it take, reminders and so forth but it just aint working. They only reply saying 'we acknowledge your correspondence' with no answers.

I applied for Child Benefit but they wanted further documentation, like GNIB card number etc.

Will register a letter Monday to them asking for a decision, hopefully I will get a positive reply.

'

ImmigrationLawyer · Post by **ImmigrationLawyer** » Sat Feb 02, 2013 8:48 pm

Are you sure you sent them all documents? Send them some more proof of address for you and the babies on Monday. Maybe a letter from your GP, letter from the Child Benefit (I assume you're getting that?) immunisation card, babies' PPSN letter etc. It sounds weird, but you need to submit proof that the babies are living with you and you're looking after them! I assume you already submitted colour copy of their Irish passports and their original birth certificates.

iwonderwhy · Post by **iwonderwhy** » Sat Feb 02, 2013 9:33 pm

I sent everything they required, the last letter I got from them was requesting proof from the GP, creche etc, that the child is living with me. I went to the GP got a letter then posted it a day later.

Im not getting child benefit, I applied for them twins. Got a letter and HRC form which wanted my immigration status (so didnt fill the form) as I dont have a status so they wrote me stating that my claim was withdrawn. Basically no income.

I sent the long form birth cert and their colour copy passport (my own as well.)

Dont know why its taking too long.

iwonderwhy · Post by **iwonderwhy** » Sat Feb 02, 2013 9:35 pm

What kills me is that they say

'if you want your case to be considered by the Minister submit the documentation within 10 working days, then you will be advised of the outcome'

Rush , rush to post it soon as. But the Minister isnt considering nothing...

Brigid from Ireland · Post by **Brigid from Ireland** » Sat Feb 02, 2013 9:37 pm

If the Irish father applies for child benefit, he can apply for it in respect of his two children - he will definitely get it.

If the mother applies for child benefit, she should apply for all four children, not just for the two who are Irish.

If you don't fill in forms they send you (eg the HRC form) they decide that you no longer want the payment. This is why you got a letter saying 'claim withdrawn' - it means you did not send back the form, so they take this to mean you don't want the money.

Brigid from Ireland · Post by **Brigid from Ireland** » Sat Feb 02, 2013 9:40 pm

The Irish father can get the child benefit for his two children as he is habitually resident - (I assume he is living in Ireland?).

The mother's probem in respect of all social welfare payments is that she is most likely NOT habitually resident. This means no payment under most schemes.

Brigid from Ireland · Post by **Brigid from Ireland** » Sat Feb 02, 2013 9:43 pm

There are some solutions.

1. Get someone who is habitually resident to appy for the child benefit - either the Irish father or the relative you live with.

2. Become habitually resident - this is almost impossible. (Getting Zambrano is not sufficient to make you habitually resident, so even when a decision is made in respect of Zambrano you may find it difficult to get social welfare payments).

3. Gain an entitlement to 'family benefits'. You do this by working or becoming self employed. Once you are employed or self employed, both child benefit and lone parents are available to you, as they become 'family benefits' and there is no habitual residence requirement for these if they are classed as 'family benefits'. If you get work 20hours a week as an employee then you can also get Family Income Supplement - this is another family benefit.

4. Move in with a partner (male or female, not your sibling or parent) who is habitually resident. This makes you habitually resident also. Preferably a partner who is on social welfare, as they can just add you and the children to their claim.

iwonderwhy · Post by **iwonderwhy** » Sat Feb 02, 2013 9:50 pm

I read the form and it has a place that asks about immigration status
tick a box if you are a refugee, residency granted (stamp4) etc and if you have been granted stay submit the letter from DoJ outlining this and a number stating with 69/..... seeing I have non of that I thought, now thats going to be impossible. I do not have what they asking for, hence no reply to them.

I wanted to for the sake of doing it and wait and see the result but its really discouraging.

El shaddai · Post by **El shaddai** » Sat Feb 02, 2013 9:52 pm

You will not be able to get any claim on your own except you have your GNIB card but the biological father of the twins can claim for them as far as i know, any time you get your residency card stamp 4 then your story will change automatically. In addition try to visit your local citizen information, your local TD and it s worth calling on St Vincent De Paul for help.

They will surely answer you shortly, i knew lots of people waiting for the same result. The DOJ are very quiet at the moment and lots of application are rolling in but i believe things will change very soon.

Less i forget try as much as possible to ask their father to get them an Irish passport as fast as possible.
Good Luck

Brigid from Ireland · Post by **Brigid from Ireland** » Sat Feb 02, 2013 9:53 pm

No reply = claim withdrawn = no payment.

You are better off to reply, and give what details you can give. Then they must make a decision. Once a decision is made you can appeal it. You appeal to the Chief Appeals Officer first, and then to the Ombudsman. If all appeals are lost you make a new claim.

But you must answer all their letters and fill in any forms they send you.

Brigid from Ireland · Post by **Brigid from Ireland** » Sat Feb 02, 2013 9:56 pm

The relative who currently supports you - is he/she Irish, EU or non-EU?

If he or she is a citizen of an EU country other than Ireland, you can claim to be habitually resident on the grounds that you are the family member/dependent relative of an EU migrant worker. This satisfies habitual residence condition, but is only usually granted if you appeal to the Ombudsman.

This means that you need to fill in all the forms and answer all letters.

Brigid from Ireland · Post by **Brigid from Ireland** » Sat Feb 02, 2013 9:58 pm

If you (the mother) gets the child benefit, you will also get lone parents. Therefore you might as well apply for this also - the rules are so similar that if you get one you will get both.

Payment will only be from the date of claim, so you should claim straight away for lone parents also.

It will almost certainly be refused, but you have a chance of getting it on appeal, so you might as well apply.

iwonderwhy · Post by **iwonderwhy** » Sat Feb 02, 2013 10:03 pm

Brigid from Ireland wrote:If you (the mother) gets the child benefit, you will also get lone parents. Therefore you might as well apply for this also - the rules are so similar that if you get one you will get both.

Payment will only be from the date of claim, so you should claim straight away for lone parents also.

It will almost certainly be refused, but you have a chance of getting it on appeal, so you might as well apply.

I will reapply and reply to all letters. Thanks for the advice.

ImmigrationLawyer · Post by **ImmigrationLawyer** » Sat Feb 02, 2013 10:07 pm

OK well if I was you I would re-apply for the CB AND apply for the One Parent Family Payment, and send the HRC form - for immigration status you can state that your application is still pending, you are still waiting. This will get the ball rolling till you get your Stamp 4.
Regarding the Zambrano app, I would send in a new lot of up to date proof of address documents including new letter from your GP to update your application. That way they don't have to write out to you again for updated stuff, they can hopefully just approve the application when they open up your file.

iwonderwhy · Post by **iwonderwhy** » Sat Feb 02, 2013 10:08 pm

Brigid from Ireland wrote:The relative who currently supports you - is he/she Irish, EU or non-EU?

If he or she is a citizen of an EU country other than Ireland, you can claim to be habitually resident on the grounds that you are the family member/dependent relative of an EU migrant worker. This satisfies habitual residence condition, but is only usually granted if you appeal to the Ombudsman.

This means that you need to fill in all the forms and answer all letters.

My relative is non EU, currently waiting for her Citizenship application. I had to keep myself in the down low so I dont bring attention to myself from the aurthorities.

iwonderwhy · Post by **iwonderwhy** » Sat Feb 02, 2013 10:12 pm

ImmigrationLawyer wrote:OK well if I was you I would re-apply for the CB AND apply for the One Parent Family Payment, and send the HRC form - for immigration status you can state that your application is still pending, you are still waiting. This will get the ball rolling till you get your Stamp 4.
Regarding the Zambrano app, I would send in a new lot of up to date proof of address documents including new letter from your GP to update your application. That way they don't have to write out to you again for updated stuff, they can hopefully just approve the application when they open up your file.

Thank you so much for the advice. Will follow it to the letter.

Brigid from Ireland · Post by **Brigid from Ireland** » Sat Feb 02, 2013 10:15 pm

One last piece of advice - try to become self employed. Minding children, making and selling hand crafted clothes - whatever you can do.

It is employment that will confer habitual residence on you - not getting your Zambrano.

Your relative is non-EU, so you can't go down the road of being a dependent relative to an EU migrant worker. That was one of your best options, but it does not work if your relative is Irish or non-EU.

ImmigrationLawyer · Post by **ImmigrationLawyer** » Sat Feb 02, 2013 10:18 pm

I respectfully disagree. Non-legal work does not assist with the habitual residence condition.

Brigid from Ireland · Post by **Brigid from Ireland** » Sat Feb 02, 2013 10:24 pm

I would agree with you. Non-legal work does not help with the habitual residence condition. The OP was non-legal until the twins were born.

The question is did it become legal for her to work the moment the citizen twins were born - she can argue it became legal for her to work the day they were born, as she has a right to work in order to support her citizen twins.

It is also possible to argue that legal work can only commence after getting permission under Zambrano. This arguement would possibly fail in court - the twins must be provided for, and how else can they be provided for, other than by a parent who works?

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Waiting for DoJ decision under Zambrano, can I

Waiting for DoJ decision under Zambrano, can I