One month stamp

[Latintraveller]

I am happy to say that my family have now arrived in Ireland (non EU spouse and child).

My wife only received a month stamp in her passport though. Is my understanding correct that it brings forward the process regarding getting five year's residency? When we see the Garda Immigration Officer shortly will that include sending off the EU1 form or does that take place later?

I have been resident in Ireland for four weeks now. When I enquired about having a medical card I ended up signing on for JSA. Will that be based on myself alone or for my dependants as well?

My understanding is that I/we can claim dole for 3 months (to get on our feet) until the EU1 form is submitted. Is that situation different now my wife has only a one month stamp?

I look forward to your responses.

Thank you!

[Malika]

Please, Ignore my lack of search ability, as you have posted before,....................what is you Nationality?

Regards,

[Malika]

Ignore my above post.......................just remembered you are a Brit.

Regards,

[Malika]

My wife only received a month stamp in her passport though. Is my understanding correct that it brings forward the process regarding getting five year's residency?When we see the Garda Immigration Officer shortly will that include sending off the EU1 form or does that take place later?

I gather the stamp was at the border i.e. by an immigration officials when entering, correct me if am wrong. ignore that one month, you start exercising treaty rights at 3 months. When you get to the Immigration officer, that is between now and the three months, you wife will be issued with a temporary Stamp 4 which will later be changed to Stamp4EUFAM.

This website explains more (am sure you've visited before)

http://www.citizensinformation.ie/en/mo ... ional.html

I have been resident in Ireland for four weeks now. When I enquired about having a medical card I ended up signing on for JSA. Will that be based on myself alone or for my dependants as well?

I don't know but maybe others more knowledgeable on EU Treaty Rights can shed some light on this but my understanding is that you will need to either be employed, self-sufficient or be studying. JSA allowance is means tested. Were you working in the UK before moving here, maybe there could be a way of claiming some assistance? when you start working, there's a payment known as Family Income Supplement (FIS) which you could be entitled to if your wage is considered below what you can live on as a family. Is that you want to claim JSA between now and when you register?

My understanding is that I/we can claim dole for 3 months (to get on our feet) until the EU1 form is submitted. Is it that situation different now my wife has only a one month stamp?

I really don't know about this.

Regards,

[Brigid from Ireland]

If you are entitled to social welfare, it is for the whole family (you, wife and kids), so long as the family are in the EU and meet all conditions.

But you may be refused on habitual residence grounds if it is jobseekers allowance you seek.

If you have recent work history anywhere else you might qualify for jobseekers benefit (no habitual residence requirement).

You need to be self supporting (ie work and maybe part time welfare) within three months.

A minimum wage job for 20 hours per week would create an entitlement to FIS and the right for your wife to stay past the three months. So when you get your first payslip ask your boss for a letter to say that you worked ? hours (it needs to be 20 or more hours) that week and then send it off with the FIS application form. (Obviously you don't get FIS if you are very well paid and it stops if you lose your job). Once you get a job you (not your wife) also apply for Child benefit (sometimes called children's allowance) and you send a copy of the payslip to them as well. You also send off a copy of the payslip with the medical card application form.

Good luck.

[Latintraveller]

Thanks for your help.

Bridget. Although my wife only arrived this week she has already got a job for 20 hours a week approx. I am still in the process of setting up my business so I am not in receipt of income (although I will start earning within a month).

I notice from your reply that we will not get Child Benefit until I start working. Am I right in saying that regarding FIS that my wife's hours will be taken into account as that appears to be the context with the information linked below. Or in our case does that not apply?

http://www.citizensinformation.ie/en/so ... ement.html

[EUsmileWEallsmile]

Thanks for your help.

Bridget. Although my wife only arrived this week she has already got a job for 20 hours a week approx. I am still in the process of setting up my business so I am not in receipt of income (although I will start earning within a month).

I notice from your reply that we will not get Child Benefit until I start working. Am I right in saying that regarding FIS that my wife's hours will be taken into account as that appears to be the context with the information linked below. Or in our case does that not apply?

http://www.citizensinformation.ie/en/so ... ement.html

Your wife can live and work in Ireland so long as you comply with the directive and its transposition into Irish law.

[Latintraveller]

Thanks for your reply.
Since my wife has not yet gone to the Garda Immigration Officer is she technically breaking the law working, having not received the temporary Stamp 4?
Since we plan to see the Guard next week will I have to have filled out the EU1 form then (or will I still have 3 months grace)? Since I am not working I would not satisfy the criteria on the form at the moment.

[EUsmileWEallsmile]

In your case; you have three months in which you do not have to be exercising treaty rights. Thereafter you do (employed, self-sufficient, student).

In you wife's case; she can remain with you as long as you are living in accordance with the above. She can work. However, she has three months before she must apply for a residence card.

[Malika]

Thanks for your help.

Bridget. Although my wife only arrived this week she has already got a job for 20 hours a week approx. I am still in the process of setting up my business so I am not in receipt of income (although I will start earning within a month).

I notice from your reply that we will not get Child Benefit until I start working. Am I right in saying that regarding FIS that my wife's hours will be taken into account as that appears to be the context with the information linked below. Or in our case does that not apply?

http://www.citizensinformation.ie/en/so ... ement.html

Is this legal since she is not registered yet?

[jeupsy]

Some people will say it is legal since even though she is not registered her husband is exercising his Treaty Rights.

But personally I would have waited to get the temporary stamp 4 which makes the situation official and recognised by immigration authorities.

I think it is a bit of an unclear area, but I am pretty sure that if you email the EUTR section at INIS to ask them, their official line will be that you need to send the application and wait until you get your Stamp 4 before you start working.

In the case of my partner who was in the same situation 6 months ago, her employer wouldn't let her start working until she showed a GNIB card with Stamp 4, which we expected and found fair enough (otherwise if you can work without it, what is the point of the temporary Stamp 4?)

[EUsmileWEallsmile]

I don't believe anything is unclear. The directive and Irish transposition state that non-EU family members have up to three months before they must apply for residence card. Notwithstanding that, the directive confers the right to work on non-EU family members.

[Latintraveller]

It was also my understanding that under EU law my wife can start working immediately. Since the Irish Consulate had already charged for admin for the issuing of the Visa, immigration had only given a one month's stamp on entry and said that one cannot work on the stamp my understanding is that Ireland is cheekily (I mean this in the nicest possible way!) applying the treaty in its own way. Hence I felt it wasnt wrong (in the broader EU scheme of things) for my wife to start working straight away.

[jeupsy]

Yes the directive is pretty clear and says for the first 3 months you don't need to be exercising EU teaty rights for the right of residence in Ireland to extend to your family members. What I meant is not clear is the fact that until she applies for the EUFAM card and gets the temporary Stamp 4, your wife doesn't have any immigration paperwork which shows that she is allowed to work in Ireland. And the stamp on her passport acually clearly says she is not allowed to work. So in theory there is no issue and she can work, but in practise the Irish immigration autorities don't seem to acknowledge this at all, which makes the situation a bit unclear (as I mentionned, I am pretty sure if you ask them, they will say she is not allowed to work without the temporary Stamp 4).

Since the stamp they put on the passport goes against the directive, I doubt they would be able to legally challenge her for working illegaly (from their point of view) or not registering after a month though.

[jerzy]

Here is a quote from the response on my complaint to SOLVIT against Ireland. A part of it was about the first three month period and the stamp my wife got in her passport when we came to the state.

The Department of Justice recognise the rights conferred in Article 6.2 and require no conditions or formalities on EU nationals or their family members for the first 3 months [...], the Department of Justice accepts that the airport official was wrong to stamp the passport for 30 days as she had a right to reside without formality or conditions for up to 90 days.

The Irish position is that EU national and their family members can reside and work in Ireland for the first 3 months and only need to apply for residence to the Department of Justice if they intend on staying in Ireland for longer than the 3 month period.

The client was free to see work during the 3 months however it is up to the employer whether he/she wants to employ her. If the employer is satisfied that she is the spouse of an EU national and is willing to employ her based on this, which is fine. However, many employers will be wary of employing non-EU nationals with no work permit or no permission from the Department of Justice in case the individual later turns out to have been illegal and this would leave the employer open to possible legal action.

The Department of Justice have no involvement with the EU national and their non-EU family member until the couple decide to remain in Ireland for longer than 3 months and submit an application for residence. Therefore, until this time, the matter of employment is between the private employer and the non-EU national.

[jeupsy]

Perfect then!

[EUsmileWEallsmile]

Here is a quote from the response on my complaint to SOLVIT against Ireland. A part of it was about the first three month period and the stamp my wife got in her passport when we came to the state.

The Department of Justice recognise the rights conferred in Article 6.2 and require no conditions or formalities on EU nationals or their family members for the first 3 months [...], the Department of Justice accepts that the airport official was wrong to stamp the passport for 30 days as she had a right to reside without formality or conditions for up to 90 days.

The Irish position is that EU national and their family members can reside and work in Ireland for the first 3 months and only need to apply for residence to the Department of Justice if they intend on staying in Ireland for longer than the 3 month period.

The client was free to see work during the 3 months however it is up to the employer whether he/she wants to employ her. If the employer is satisfied that she is the spouse of an EU national and is willing to employ her based on this, which is fine. However, many employers will be wary of employing non-EU nationals with no work permit or no permission from the Department of Justice in case the individual later turns out to have been illegal and this would leave the employer open to possible legal action.

The Department of Justice have no involvement with the EU national and their non-EU family member until the couple decide to remain in Ireland for longer than 3 months and submit an application for residence. Therefore, until this time, the matter of employment is between the private employer and the non-EU national.

Interesting post. Thanks for highlighting this.

[EUsmileWEallsmile]

Since the Irish Consulate had already charged for admin for the issuing of the Visa

Did someone charge some kind of fee?

[Latintraveller]

Thanks for your answers! They have helped me a lot.

I was charged 350 Soles (€105) each for my wife and step-son by the Irish Consulate in Peru for Admin charges (I still have the receipt for this).
Since it mentions an admin fee on the official email that was generated when applying for the visa online I didn't question it too much (although Europe says that a fee shouldn't be charged). The email says in part;

You are from a country which is exempt from visa fees. However, the Embassy or Consulate may charge an administration fee.

[EUsmileWEallsmile]

Complain. The visa should have been free.

[Latintraveller]

Over the past few weeks I have engaged in self-employment. My turnover though is less than €100 a week at this stage. My wife earns about €170 a week as an employee of a company in town. With some savings in the back we can live on this weekly income until I have built up my work sufficiently.

A problem I can foresee is that my earnings may still be below €200 a week by the time (at the three month stage) I make the EU1 application for Temporary Residency for my wife (or less if I apply when we see the Guard next week). Also although we/I am meant to be economically active under treaty laws is there a level of turnover expected before this can count? Also I guess my wife's higher wages will not be taken into account due to the question of whether she is allowed to work or not.

Therefore -

Is there a minimum turnover amount for self-employment within a certain time period or is the judgement based on effort in securing business and registering with the Revenue Commissioners etc?

Would it be best to complete the EU 1 form at the three month stage or next week (when I can explain that I have only been trading for two week and their expectations may be lower)?

Would it cause me more problems than it is worth by declaring my wife's income in the EU1 form?

I look forward to hearing from you shortly.

Thanks!


Article 23
Related rights
Irrespective of nationality, the family members of a Union citizen who have the right of residence or the right of permanent residence in a Member State shall be entitled to take up employment or self-employment there.

[chelsearob77]

Complain. The visa should have been free.

I also was charged this fee myself when my wife applied for her Irish visa in Peru last month, me personnely won't be saying anything to them regarding this fee until my wife has her visa from them

[EUsmileWEallsmile]

Who is doing the charging? The Irish embassy or some intermediary?

[EUsmileWEallsmile]

http://www.dfa.ie/home/index.aspx?id=8780

Spouses of EU or Irish nationals are visa exempt. In addition, persons from Peru and other countries are fee exempt.

However, visas are handled by the embassy in Mexico. It would appear that there is an admin fee for forwarding the application to Mexico and back.

Saying nothing won't change matters. Complaining might.

[chelsearob77]

Who is doing the charging? The Irish embassy or some intermediary?

The Irish embassy in Lima, Peru are the ones charging this fee of s/ 350 (£90) claiming it is to cover the costs to send the application & documents to Mexico & back, me & my wife both think the man that runs the Irish embassy in Peru takes something for himself, maybe s/ 100 or even more? As when we applied for our kids British passports (yes I'm a Brit by the way) we had to send the application & supporting documents to the British embassy in Washington DC in the United States & that cost less then s/ 200 & we used DHL's express delivery which was the most expensive that takes two days to arrive in the States! We somehow think the fella at the Irish embassy uses the cheaper derlivery option to enable himself to hold a bit more of the money for himself!
That's how Peru is to be honest with you most people that live there are on the take & will only help you if there is something in it for themselves!