EEA Permit (or not) A complicated one.

[Yourcall]

Hello to all board members. First a summary of my daughter's situation.

* 24 y/o Female Professional Mariner, Deck officer.
* South African Citizen
* Permanent resident in Spain with Work Permit for 8 years.
* Previous Temp resident in Spain 5 years.
* Daughter of UK Citizen
* Married to UK Citizen
* Couple own their own home in Spain.
* Husband is marine engineer
* Holder of a 10 year multiple entry visitor visa
* No government funds are needed.
* Bermudan Seamans Passbook
* British Certificates of Competency as Chief Mate

She needs to go to the UK to study and be examined by the Maritime and Coastguard agency.
The type of course does not comply with T4 requirements.
Entry on visitors visa is possible but under false pretenses as study/examination is the goal

We think that the form VAF5 is the route to go, but have heard mention of "dependency" neither wife nor husband is dependent on the other.

Neither of them intends to settle in the UK, as, they own their home in Spain, and they work at sea, sometimes on different ships, but always on the move, with 3 months a year leave.

Both of them are well paid and able to support themselves ad infinitum.
Health insurance is not a problem.

Surely, as a bona fide EU resident, and (real) spouse of a UK citizen, with rights of free movement and work within the EU, she should be able to attend a course at a maritime academy, and then the UK MCGA oral exam for her CoC?

We await your excellent advises in due course.

Regards.

[Jambo]

Will her (UK citizen) husband travel with her to the UK?
How long do they intend to be in the UK?

See

...
Because EEA nationals have an initial three months right of residence in the UK, there is no requirement for the British national to be a qualified person on arrival. Therefore, an EEA family permit can be issued to the non-EEA national family member of a British national even if they are only visiting the UK with the British national before returning to the Member State where they are resident
...

[Yourcall]

Will look at your link.

In answer.

Yes, her UK Citizen husband could and would if necessary travel with her.

She would like to be there for 7 months, for studies, and he would invariably return to sea several times during that 7 months.

Thanks

[Jambo]

"dependency" is not required between a married couple.

[Yourcall]

Hmmmm, still scratching my head as to why the UKBA was and is so keen to put hurdles in the way. They claim she needs a student visa, and that would cancel her 10 year multiple entry visa and blah blah. As we see it, she is a bona-fide (well meaning) resident in the EU totally legal, and should be able to enter the UK without hindrance to work or study by dint of her EU residency. The British husband and mother, should only add to her rights despite the fact that she was "only" born in South Africa through no fault of her own.

So what is the BEST way for her to enter, study, be examined, and then leave while paying everything out of her own pocket?

[ukforever]

Will look at your link.

In answer.

Yes, her UK Citizen husband could and would if necessary travel with her.

She would like to be there for 7 months, for studies, and he would invariably return to sea several times during that 7 months.

Thanks

the couple can use the surrinder singh route,maybe be its the only way,like u said in your last post if she apply for a student visa it would avoid her 10 years multiples entry visa,and if its that important to her,she might go for the surrinder singh route,they can apply for the family permit before hand,lets say 3 to 6 months before the start of the course,then once in the uk she can apply for residence card of 5 years and it can be delivered before her course ends..also keep in mind that her husband can be regarded as a self-sufficient person and as u mentioned they are well paid and can show that even thought what matters is what the british citizen did in the other eu state(how he exercised his treaty rights as a worker/self employed person) and it doesn't matter what he does in the uk.
so i think it would be ok for your daughter to stay in the uk and study while the husband as u mentioned can come back several times from his job..7 months are more than enough for her to submit her application for residence card and get it on time before she finish studying..i don't know if this option is doable but i'm sure one of the respected gurus and moderators could shed some light and give their opinion on this option.

[Yourcall]

Anybody?

Is the VAF5 form the correct route to follow?

[EUsmileWEallsmile]

Reading through your posts, I would have thought student visa would have been appropriate.

If a British national works in another member state and lives with their non-EU spouse there, it is possible for them to apply for a family permit if they intend to move back to the UK together. If the circumstances are different to this, then this route will not be possible.

[Yourcall]

Well, we did the whole VAF5 route, and made it to Madrid to attend the interview. There was no interview, they just took the documents and sent them back via courier with a refusal notice.

The refusal is because the husband (UK Citizen) was employed by a company based in Guernsey. Therefore "you have failed to prove that you were living and working in an EU member state"

NOW>>>

What if a couple were working and living married in Paris, and they worked for Coca Cola? a US based company?

Surely the definition of working and living in the EU is not based upon the country in which the employer holds its banking accounts?

We intend to appeal the decision on IAFT-2 based on the fact that they have and did and are working all over the EU from Kiel to Palma on a per contract basis, but the company management was always "offshore" in Bermuda, Cayman, Isle of Man, Guernsey, London and Southampton.

Any comments or advice would be most welcome thank you.....

[EUsmileWEallsmile]

Well, we did the whole VAF5 route, and made it to Madrid to attend the interview. There was no interview, they just took the documents and sent them back via courier with a refusal notice.

The refusal is because the husband (UK Citizen) was employed by a company based in Guernsey. Therefore "you have failed to prove that you were living and working in an EU member state"

NOW>>>

What if a couple were working and living married in Paris, and they worked for Coca Cola? a US based company?

Surely the definition of working and living in the EU is not based upon the country in which the employer holds its banking accounts?

We intend to appeal the decision on IAFT-2 based on the fact that they have and did and are working all over the EU from Kiel to Palma on a per contract basis, but the company management was always "offshore" in Bermuda, Cayman, Isle of Man, Guernsey, London and Southampton.

Any comments or advice would be most welcome thank you.....

What is important is where the work takes place, not on where the employer is based.

That said and re-reading your posts, I don't know what the basis for the family permit will be. Are the couple planning to travel together?

[Yourcall]

Yes the couple will be traveling together.
The Student visa route will not suffice.

She needs to go to the UK with and without hubby, continually and repeatedly for professional reasons, for family reasons, and for administrative reasons. She is a UK titled seafarer. The body that examines, tests, and governs her professional life is the MCGA based in the UK, its ludicrous that she cannot travel there on her 10 year multiple entry visa, because she will be in contravention of the visa status as VISITOR if she does anything she needs to do professionally.

She can travel anywhere (and does) in the EU working on ships, calling in at every port from Kiel to Athens, but cannot land in the UK???

So the denial was the base of the holding company, Now we need to prove that they lived together all over in the EU.

[Directive/2004/38/EC]

The key thing is where has the EU citizen been working. One aspect of that is where the employer is. The other aspect is where they have done their work. You need to be a lot clearer

[Yourcall]

we are currently gathering evidence of living in the EU, Car registration, deliveries, cell phone accounts, bank accounts, records of the vessels docking in EU ports, etc.
How does one address a UK judge in writing?

[Directive/2004/38/EC]

we are currently gathering evidence of living in the EU, Car registration, deliveries, cell phone accounts, bank accounts, records of the vessels docking in EU ports, etc.

Evidence of working! And contracts? A letter from employer?

[EUsmileWEallsmile]

Does the returning British citizen and non-EU spouse plan to live together in the UK?