2 queries about Good character for Citizenship

[navalaviator]

hi

I am soon going to apply for the british citizenship as a spouse of British citizen after completing three years but there are two things which i would like clarify before applying.

1.In 2011 due to a domestic issue police had a chat with me but i was NOT arrested or charged or anything and we resolved matter at home and police officer left.

2.This year I receieved summons from magistrates court for the non payment of council tax but I paid the owed amount of £70 on the same day i received summons and then called council they confirmed that i do NOT need to go to court and my details have been removed from their system and the matter has been settled.

I applied for PNC check after I had chat with police in 2011 and it came back with NO information held on the system and then last year my emplyer did Enhanced CRB check and it came back with NO criminal record whatsoever at all.


I do not have any convictions,cautions,warnings or raprimands at all and also do NOT have any ccj or Bankruptcy,traffic offences(I DON'T drive) or any other civil
orders etc. at all.


I need to know that in this case should I apply for citizenship because form AN and good character requirement state that
Police will be contacted and enquiries will be made so I am quite worried if my chat with police which I assume will be held in local police records(even though PNC and Enhanced CRB was clean)
comes into the light and citizenship would be refused as it might cast a doubt on good character requirement?

Do I need to disclose my first and second concerns in my citizenship application ?

Any hellp will be highly appreciated.

[Ayyubi72]

To cut the long story short, there is nothing you need to worry about.
You do not need to declare anything because nothing has occurred. What you have mentioned just doesn't count.

Final answer.

[navalaviator]

To cut the long story short, there is nothing you need to worry about.
You do not need to declare anything because nothing has occurred. What you have mentioned just doesn't count.

Final answer.

Thank you for your reply and i really appreciate it and you have put my mind at peace.

God Bless you.

[Amber]

hi

I am soon going to apply for the british citizenship as a spouse of British citizen after completing three years but there are two things which i would like clarify before applying.

1.In 2011 due to a domestic issue police had a chat with me but i was NOT arrested or charged or anything and we resolved matter at home and police officer left.

2.This year I receieved summons from magistrates court for the non payment of council tax but I paid the owed amount of £70 on the same day i received summons and then called council they confirmed that i do NOT need to go to court and my details have been removed from their system and the matter has been settled.

I applied for PNC check after I had chat with police in 2011 and it came back with NO information held on the system and then last year my emplyer did Enhanced CRB check and it came back with NO criminal record whatsoever at all.


I do not have any convictions,cautions,warnings or raprimands at all and also do NOT have any ccj or Bankruptcy,traffic offences(I DON'T drive) or any other civil
orders etc. at all.


I need to know that in this case should I apply for citizenship because form AN and good character requirement state that
Police will be contacted and enquiries will be made so I am quite worried if my chat with police which I assume will be held in local police records(even though PNC and Enhanced CRB was clean)
comes into the light and citizenship would be refused as it might cast a doubt on good character requirement?

Do I need to disclose my first and second concerns in my citizenship application ?

Any hellp will be highly appreciated.

Failure to pay council tax means you fail the good character requirement. As you have now paid the arrears there should be no issue. However, I would contact the council and make sure that their system accurately reflects this.

[navalaviator]

I have always paid council tax on time without any problem but few months ago i moved to a new address and just completly forgot about one last months payment and realised it until I received magistarate court's summons regarding the owed amount of £70 which I paid on the day I received summons way before the hearing date then I called council and they confirmed that Payment has been received and my details have been removed from their system and I don't owe them anything.


Now should I get this confirmation in writing from the council?am worried agin would it be held against me if I apply for BC even though I didn't go to court and made payment?

[Amber]

I have always paid council tax on time without any problem but few months ago i moved to a new address and just completly forgot about one last months payment and realised it until I received magistarate court's summons regarding the owed amount of £70 which I paid on the day I received summons way before the hearing date then I called council and they confirmed that Payment has been received and my details have been removed from their system and I don't owe them anything.


Now should I get this confirmation in writing from the council?am worried agin would it be held against me if I apply for BC even though I didn't go to court and made payment?

Like I said the fact you have paid should mean it is not an issue unless the local authority still have you down as not paying your council tax. I would just telephone them again and confirm that there is no adverse information still recorded. That should suffice.

[navalaviator]

Thankyou so much for your kind help,I contacted council again and they said that their is Nothing recorded regarding those summons anymore as arrears were cleared before the hearing date and summons were removed from their system so council tax record has been settled and direct debit has been set up with a letter from council.

[Amber]

Thankyou so much for your kind help,I contacted council again and they said that their is Nothing recorded regarding those summons anymore as arrears were cleared before the hearing date and summons were removed from their system so council tax record has been settled and direct debit has been set up with a letter from council.

Great, you should have no character issues.

[Amber]

Hi,

In the light of the following personal circumstances I just need to know that if my naturalization application would be successful and if I should apply?

Good Character Requirements in Detail

Convictions---------------NO
Cautions------------------NO
Warnings-----------------NO
Raprimands--------------NO
Arrests-------------------NO
Ongoing police investigations--------------NO
Prosecutions etc.----------------------------NO
Acquittals------------------------------------NO
Driving Offences or Convictions-----------NO
CCJ or Bankruptcy-------------------------NO
PCN(Penalty charge notice)---------------NO
FPN(Fixed Penalty Notice)-----------------NO
PND(Penalty notice for disorder)---------NO
ASBO(Anti social behaviour order)-------NO
gender Offender's Register-------------------NO
CIVIL Orders-------------------------------NO
Hospital Orders------------------------------NO
Adverse Immigration History---------------NO
Deceptions in Previous Applications--------NO
HMRC Tax & Benefit Isuues or Fraud-------NO
Council Tax Issues---------------------------NO
Any other Illegal activities etc.--------------NO

Applying as spouse of British citizen After completing 3 years---------YES
Marriage still Subsisting----------------------------------------------------YES
Application FORM Correctly filled and signed-----------------------------YES
Referees and Photos in correct and signed certified Format-------------YES
Application FEE Provided with Correct Details-----------------------------YES
INDEFINITE LEAVE TO REMAIN---------------------------------------------YES
All Genuine Documents Applying via NCS---------------------------------YES
Sound Mind--------------------------------------------------------------YES
LIUK and B1 Test(Applying NOV 2013-------------------------------------YES
Original Passports,BRP,Marriage certificate--------------------------------YES



Any Input will be greatly appreciated.

Thankyou

Good Luck with your application and be careful if and when you drive till the time you apply.

Thankyou for your reply and kind advice.I don't drive just because of these ever changing rules regarding criminality thresholds and driving offences particularly those notorious FPN'S




I would request moderators to put this thread as a sticky as anyone who is applying for the citizenship can simply evaluate their application against the above template of requirements for a citizenship as the above can be used as a template to assess and analyze a prospective application whether it stands a chance to be a successful or need to delay applying if the evaluation against the above rules suggest a possibility of refusal.




Basically its just an attempt to streamline application process with an answer after completing the above questionnaire as almost every application for naturalization has to meet the above(apart from type and qualifying residential

Thankyou

See the Good Character FAQ for accurate guidance (click)

There are a number of inaccuracies in your post, for example, a marriage need not be subsisting and all the 'criminality' information is not a no, there are periods when the convictions won't count, an ASBO won't fall under criminality unless breached etc......

I understand your point Amber regarding this post as it can NOT be used as a template to evaluate an application's criminality perspective as it differs from person to person and its lot more complex then what I have proposed above thank you




D4109125 wrote:
There are a number of inaccuracies in your post, for example, a marriage need not be subsisting and all the 'criminality' information is not a no, there are periods when the convictions won't count, an ASBO won't fall under criminality unless breached etc......




Didn't understand this bit of your reply would you be able to elaborate it in a bit more detail as I don't know if you are referring to my application?and also what are the chances of my application being successful in the light of my above explained circumstances?



Thank you

Not for you, I meant that for convictions after a certain period they should not result in an automatic refusal, I.e. after 3 years has lapsed since receiving a non custodial sentence so even if you ticked yes, it would mean you'd be refused.

Only risks (if they should be called risks anyways) could be either being outside UK on the first day of the qualifying period count and a having past that involves any criminal or terrorism supporting activity in your homeland or previous country of residence.

Rather than that I see no chances of refusal according to my knowledge..

Good character actually amounts to more than criminality and terrorism. See the Good Character FAQ (click)

Thanks Amber, what I mentioned was only 2 outstanding potential risks that Navalaviator has not preliminarily eliminated in his original post such as fixed penalty notices, tax arrears etc.

Other than that your informing post in the link was a source that everyone here has looked at before once or twice, thanks for that!

He seems to be clear as crystal yet needs to be assured as most of us here. I have even contacted the council of the city I previously lived to make sure I have no council tax etc left unpaid (turned out I have left a £23.00 behind me and cleared that out so now I am white as a bloody snow flake)

Haha, yes, though bizarrely those who need to worry often don't and then wonder why they've been rejected.

Thankyou for bringing my attention to your points but I have mentioned in my first post that I do not have any Tax arrears or Fixed penalty issues as I am not Self-employed so don't have to worry about tax arrears etc. plus don't have any benefit issues etc with HMRC as not claiming anything(I know I can claim without affecting citizenship) and I don't drive so don't have any infamous Fixed penalty issues etc. whatsoever.

And I am a good boy all around and don't have any criminal or violent past in home country whatsoever either so nothing to worry about on that side of the things.

Paying council tax through direct debt with no arrears etc.

Congratulations. I thought those three contradicted each other.

Haha LMHO Well you are right as these 3 years and particularly the 2 years on spouse visa are definitely like walking on a rope with a balancing rod in both hands to avoid falling and going into the sheer depth,you just do one wrong move or 'fall asleep' and you are screwed and I just managed to do it successfully somehow and crossed the rope despite of strong cross winds and storms hehe and have seen some others who were blown off the rope and disappeared into the blind depths while attempting to do the same but they got distracted lost focus and ended up in the sheer fall and couldn't make it to the other end.

YES you are 100% right that after 3 years and still married and on top of it a sound mind is definitely an eccentric and rare combination

[Amber]

I just need to know that couple of weeks ago a police officer came on our door and asked that if we have heard any screams or not as some body has reported of screams from the building(I live in a block of flats) and I said I didn't hear anything and then even offered him to come inside and have look if he wanted TO and then he came inside looked around and took mine and wife's name and date of birth and I asked him why did he take our details and he said that I am gonna report back to the police station to say that I talked to these two people and they haven't heard anything


Now my question is do I need to disclose this in my citizenship application or not?



Thankyou

No. You were only a witness

[navalaviator]

Thank you so much for your reply vinny.

Thank you amber for puuting all my posts in one thread I really appreciate your effort

cheers

[Amber]

hello all,

I am soon going to apply for the british citizenship as a spouse of British citizen after completing three years but I would like some clarification on the following matter before applying.

In 2011 due to a domestic issue police had a chat with me but i was NOT arrested or charged or anything and we resolved matter at home and police officer left but the officer took my name and date of birth and address details.

I applied for PNC check after I had chat with police in 2011 and it came back with NO information held on the system and then in OCT 2012 my emplyer did Enhanced CRB check and it came back with NO criminal record whatsoever at all and then was granted ILR in DEC 2012 as a spouse of BC.


I do not have any convictions,cautions,warnings or raprimands at all as per the two Subject access reports and also do NOT have any ccj or Bankruptcy,traffic offences(I DON'T drive) or any other civil orders etc. at all.


I need to know that in this case should I apply for citizenship because form AN and good character requirement state that Police will be contacted and enquiries will be made so I am quite worried if my chat with police which I assume will be held in local police records(even though PNC and Enhanced CRB was clean) comes into the light and citizenship would be refused as it might cast a doubt on good character requirement?

Do I need to disclose the above matter in my citizenship application ?

I really need some expert advice on this issue as I asked this before but I didn't have an expert reassurance.

Any help will be highly appreciated.

[Amber]

No need to disclose, shouldn't be an issue.

[navalaviator]

No need to disclose, shouldn't be an issue.

Thankyou for your advice but I found the following two paragraphs from the good character guide and booklet of form AN for naturalization and it has really made me paranoid again on whether to disclose the police incident or not because if they find out about it then I am afraid it would be refused as they might consider it as an attempt to conceal information or to deceive.

You must say whether you have been involved in anything which might indicate that you are not of good character. You must give information about any of these activities no matter how long ago this was. Checks will be made in all cases and your application may fail and your fee will not be fully refunded if you make an untruthful declaration. If you are in any doubt about whether you have done something or it has been alleged that you have done something which might lead us to think that you are not of good character you should say so.

Section 8: Deception and Dishonesty
8.1 General Approach
Concealment of information or lack of frankness will raise doubt about – and therefore reflect poorly on – their character. The decision maker will normally refuse an application where the person has attempted to lie
or conceal the truth about an aspect of their application, whether on the application form or in the course of enquiries.

I am so stressed out because of all this and thinking of not applying for citizenship even though enhanced crb and PNC checks were clean and even was granted ILR(2012) after the above issue which happened in 2011.I am not sure if I disclose it in the application then I don't know how it would be taken by the caseworker good or bad and if I don't declare it then it might be considered as an attempt to conceal information.Just don't know what to do so stressed.


Thankyou

[Heisgood]

No need to disclose, shouldn't be an issue.

Thankyou for your advice but I found the following two paragraphs from the good character guide and booklet of form AN for naturalization and it has really made me paranoid again on whether to disclose the police incident or not because if they find out about it then I am afraid it would be refused as they might consider it as an attempt to conceal information or to deceive.

You must say whether you have been involved in anything which might indicate that you are not of good character. You must give information about any of these activities no matter how long ago this was. Checks will be made in all cases and your application may fail and your fee will not be fully refunded if you make an untruthful declaration. If you are in any doubt about whether you have done something or it has been alleged that you have done something which might lead us to think that you are not of good character you should say so.

Section 8: Deception and Dishonesty
8.1 General Approach
Concealment of information or lack of frankness will raise doubt about – and therefore reflect poorly on – their character. The decision maker will normally refuse an application where the person has attempted to lie
or conceal the truth about an aspect of their application, whether on the application form or in the course of enquiries.

I am so stressed out because of all this and thinking of not applying for citizenship even though enhanced crb and PNC checks were clean and even was granted ILR(2012) after the above issue which happened in 2011.I am not sure if I disclose it in the application then I don't know how it would be taken by the caseworker good or bad and if I don't declare it then it might be considered as an attempt to conceal information.Just don't know what to do so stressed.


Thankyou

If what you said is correct and it's no more than a chat You are stressing over NOTHING ! Police have stopped many people in the past had chats etc....should they all tell HO? Obviously not they were doing their job. If you want to have a clear conscience ask the local police, NCS and HO......you can then decide how to proceed.

[navalaviator]

No need to disclose, shouldn't be an issue.

Thankyou for your advice but I found the following two paragraphs from the good character guide and booklet of form AN for naturalization and it has really made me paranoid again on whether to disclose the police incident or not because if they find out about it then I am afraid it would be refused as they might consider it as an attempt to conceal information or to deceive.

You must say whether you have been involved in anything which might indicate that you are not of good character. You must give information about any of these activities no matter how long ago this was. Checks will be made in all cases and your application may fail and your fee will not be fully refunded if you make an untruthful declaration. If you are in any doubt about whether you have done something or it has been alleged that you have done something which might lead us to think that you are not of good character you should say so.

Section 8: Deception and Dishonesty
8.1 General Approach
Concealment of information or lack of frankness will raise doubt about – and therefore reflect poorly on – their character. The decision maker will normally refuse an application where the person has attempted to lie
or conceal the truth about an aspect of their application, whether on the application form or in the course of enquiries.

I am so stressed out because of all this and thinking of not applying for citizenship even though enhanced crb and PNC checks were clean and even was granted ILR(2012) after the above issue which happened in 2011.I am not sure if I disclose it in the application then I don't know how it would be taken by the caseworker good or bad and if I don't declare it then it might be considered as an attempt to conceal information.Just don't know what to do so stressed.


Thankyou

If what you said is correct and it's no more than a chat You are stressing over NOTHING ! Police have stopped many people in the past had chats etc....should they all tell HO? Obviously not they were doing their job. If you want to have a clear conscience ask the local police, NCS and HO......you can then decide how to proceed.

Appreciate your help but seems like you didn't read my situation as I was not stopped by police but it was a dispute at home a small argument with wife due to which officer came to my house and he had a chat with me and he himself said couple if times that its a chat and you are not being arrested or questioned but to establish whats the issue, if you read my first post at the top of this page and you will get a clearer picture of my plight and reason of distress.

[Heisgood]

No need to disclose, shouldn't be an issue.

Thankyou for your advice but I found the following two paragraphs from the good character guide and booklet of form AN for naturalization and it has really made me paranoid again on whether to disclose the police incident or not because if they find out about it then I am afraid it would be refused as they might consider it as an attempt to conceal information or to deceive.

You must say whether you have been involved in anything which might indicate that you are not of good character. You must give information about any of these activities no matter how long ago this was. Checks will be made in all cases and your application may fail and your fee will not be fully refunded if you make an untruthful declaration. If you are in any doubt about whether you have done something or it has been alleged that you have done something which might lead us to think that you are not of good character you should say so.

Section 8: Deception and Dishonesty
8.1 General Approach
Concealment of information or lack of frankness will raise doubt about – and therefore reflect poorly on – their character. The decision maker will normally refuse an application where the person has attempted to lie
or conceal the truth about an aspect of their application, whether on the application form or in the course of enquiries.

I am so stressed out because of all this and thinking of not applying for citizenship even though enhanced crb and PNC checks were clean and even was granted ILR(2012) after the above issue which happened in 2011.I am not sure if I disclose it in the application then I don't know how it would be taken by the caseworker good or bad and if I don't declare it then it might be considered as an attempt to conceal information.Just don't know what to do so stressed.


Thankyou

If what you said is correct and it's no more than a chat You are stressing over NOTHING ! Police have stopped many people in the past had chats etc....should they all tell HO? Obviously not they were doing their job. If you want to have a clear conscience ask the local police, NCS and HO......you can then decide how to proceed.

Appreciate your help but seems like you didn't read my situation as I was not stopped by police but it was a dispute at home a small argument with wife due to which officer came to my house and he had a chat with me and he himself said couple if times that its a chat and you are not being arrested or questioned but to establish whats the issue, if you read my first post at the top of this page and you will get a clearer picture of my plight and reason of distress.

Point noted, however my friend a chat is just that a chat! Unless you are not painting a clear picture as officers don't just show up for arguments.Nevertheless,I am still confused as to why you want to complicate your case. If you want to write about the other incident then perhaps maybe but about a chat...you may confuse the very case worker into all manner of thinking..All the best after all its your application so you decide.

[royh]

Sorry to ask here I have moved my questions to the FAQ thread.

[navalaviator]

Point noted, however my friend a chat is just that a chat! Unless you are not painting a clear picture as officers don't just show up for arguments.Nevertheless,I am still confused as to why you want to complicate your case. If you want to write about the other incident then perhaps maybe but about a chat...you may confuse the very case worker into all manner of thinking..All the best after all its your application so you decide.

Unless you are not painting a clear picture as officers don't just show up for arguments

Well I did my best to expain the situation as much brief and accurate as I could.
Just to add some extra detail I was at work and wife was constantly ringing me and had this heated argument with her over the phone at work so I rang her dad and told him but he denied that she is ringing me and said I am lying so I exchanged few heated words with him but instead of sympathy he called police at his home so when I finished work and went home officer was waiting and its there he said he would like to have a Chat with me to find out whats the matter so during my conversation with the officer my mum rang from Back home and I told her that I am being questioned by police and Immediately he interrupted me and said its just a Chat and You are not being questioned as you are not under arrest as suspects are questioned only at police station, anyways he acted as a mediator between me and wife and her dad and told my wife to not to ring me constantly at work again and told me to not to exchange any arguments with her on the phone again in the future.When he was about to leave he said to me outside the house to be extra clever next time. and he left even though he took my and wife's details.

It happened in 2011 and then did a PNC check which came back clean and employer did Enhanced CRB check which came back clean and NO criminal record whatsoever and then I was granted ILR in 2012(obviously they must have checked PNC before grant) so its 3 Record checks which were all clean.
My reason for worrying so much is because I don't want any problem with the Naturalization application so just want to be crystal clear on all things.


I know I am just being paranoid but I have been through alot to come to this stage of applying for citizenship so just want it to be smooth and trouble free.

Thankyou

[Heisgood]

Point noted, however my friend a chat is just that a chat! Unless you are not painting a clear picture as officers don't just show up for arguments.Nevertheless,I am still confused as to why you want to complicate your case. If you want to write about the other incident then perhaps maybe but about a chat...you may confuse the very case worker into all manner of thinking..All the best after all its your application so you decide.

Unless you are not painting a clear picture as officers don't just show up for arguments

Well I did my best to expain the situation as much brief and accurate as I could.
Just to add some extra detail I was at work and wife was constantly ringing me and had this heated argument with her over the phone at work so I rang her dad and told him but he denied that she is ringing me and said I am lying so I exchanged few heated words with him but instead of sympathy he called police at his home so when I finished work and went home officer was waiting and its there he said he would like to have a Chat with me to find out whats the matter so during my conversation with the officer my mum rang from Back home and I told her that I am being questioned by police and Immediately he interrupted me and said its just a Chat and You are not being questioned as you are not under arrest as suspects are questioned only at police station, anyways he acted as a mediator between me and wife and her dad and told my wife to not to ring me constantly at work again and told me to not to exchange any arguments with her on the phone again in the future.When he was about to leave he said to me outside the house to be extra clever next time. and he left even though he took my and wife's details.

It happened in 2011 and then did a PNC check which came back clean and employer did Enhanced CRB check which came back clean and NO criminal record whatsoever and then I was granted ILR in 2012(obviously they must have checked PNC before grant) so its 3 Record checks which were all clean.
My reason for worrying so much is because I don't want any problem with the Naturalization application so just want to be crystal clear on all things.


I know I am just being paranoid but I have been through alot to come to this stage of applying for citizenship so just want it to be smooth and trouble free.

Thankyou

You said "Immediately he interrupted me and said its just a Chat and You are not being questioned as you are not under arrest as suspects are questioned only at police station"

IMO forget it, forget it and last but not least forget it - The form never said inform HO when police chat with you.....does it? I have learnt on my immigration journey to only respond to what is asked for. Keep it honest and simple. Don't give the case worker funny thoughts with a paragraph of your personal life that might lead to them requesting more information from you.

Regarding your anxiety, I know exactly how you feel as it's a long hard road. I am seeking to cross the line in 6days time as a result I have to drive like a snail on the road to avoid getting points on my license or police warnings, cautions....and the never ending list for good character. Unfortunately the new guideline on good character is clouded in more ambiguity. Good luck with your application and hope your stress disappears for good. Forget it!

[navalaviator]

Thanks for your support and help really appreciate it.

In addition section 3.18 now states:

Have you ever engaged in any other activities which might indicate that you may not be considered a person of good character?

This is a 'catch all' question and would imply that you should declare any investigations/warnings etc..., even those that did not end up with a prosecution.

The above quote is from good character FAQ thread which is really worrying and don't know if I should disclose my chat with the officer or not so need some clarification on it Amber.

thanks

[navalaviator]

Thanks for your support and help really appreciate it.

In addition section 3.18 now states:

Have you ever engaged in any other activities which might indicate that you may not be considered a person of good character?

This is a 'catch all' question and would imply that you should declare any investigations/warnings etc..., even those that did not end up with a prosecution.

The above quote is from good character FAQ thread which is really worrying and don't know if I should disclose my chat with the officer or not so need some clarification on it Amber.

thanks

[Amber]

The question is subjective, do you think you have engaged in activity which casts doubt over your character? I would say no for a police chat.

[navalaviator]

The question is subjective, do you think you have engaged in activity which casts doubt over your character? I would say no for a police chat.

Just spoke to homeoffice and surprisingly have been told that I should disclose the chat with police in my citizenship application as if it comes to light then it will be investigated further so it really confusing and don't know what to do and as I didn't disclose the incident in ILR application so it might jeopardise even my ILR

[Amber]

I would take what the call centre says with a big pinch of salt, I see no reason to declare it, yes they may see it but as no further action was taken it's immaterial unless you've had numerous investigations.