EU3 Application -Applicant Studying. EU Citizen Inactive.

[iamanalien]

Hi Friends,

I will make my application next April.

Since I got my 4EUFAm in October 2009, I have been studying. The 4 year level 7 course that I am enrolled in will be completed in May 2015.

My wife is in between courses. She complete a one years masters program in May 2011 an since then has not been doing much. She is intending to do her PHD, long distance, at a European university.

I am getting a BTEA payment and she is on my application as a spouse.

Will the fact that she completed her Masters be considered as part of 'exercising EU Treaty rights' in my EU3 application?

What are the chances of my application succeeding if the situation remains as is?

[jeupsy]

I would be cautious about submitting an application if your wife is currently neither working, studying, nor self-employed. Not only your EU3 application would likely be refused because she is not exercising EU Treaty Rights anymore, but they could also tell you that you Stamp 4 EUFam is not valid anymore unless she becomes a student or starts-up employment - and basically tell you to leave the country. If she is getting any kind of social welfare, then I would even more advise against applying as they will definitely consider you guys are not self-sufficient and therefore she is not exercising EU Treaty Rights.

I think it would be much safer for you if she could either start employment and keep it at least while your application is being processed; or register as a student somewhere.

[iamanalien]

I would be cautious about submitting an application if your wife is currently neither working, studying, nor self-employed. Not only your EU3 application would likely be refused because she is not exercising EU Treaty Rights anymore, but they could also tell you that you Stamp 4 EUFam is not valid anymore unless she becomes a student or starts-up employment - and basically tell you to leave the country. If she is getting any kind of social welfare, then I would even more advise against applying as they will definitely consider you guys are not self-sufficient and therefore she is not exercising EU Treaty Rights.

I think it would be much safer for you if she could either start employment and keep it at least while your application is being processed; or register as a student somewhere.

Thank you for your response....

Is the point here that at the time of the application the Union Citizen has to be exercising her treaty rights and that what happened prior to that is of little consequence. (obviously within reason)

Am I correct in saying that BTEA does not negatively affect your application?

Kind regards

[jeupsy]

I think in theory - even if your wife starts employment or studying again they could turn down the EU3 application by saying that there is a period in your 5 years during which she was not exercising Treaty Rights and therefore you did not qualify for the Stamp 4 EUFam you were holding. In practise, unless there is clear abuse I would hope they do show some discretion and accept some gaps - but this is just my guessing.

But one important point is that as long as your wife is working/studying at the time of the application - even if they decide to refuse the EU3 application because there was a gap in her Treaty Rights period; they can't ask you to leave Ireland as she obviously is exercising Treaty Rights again (even if your EU3 gets turned down you are safe as you still qualify for your Stamp 4 EUFAM). Whereas if they find out she is currently not exercising Treaty Rights, none only they could deny the EU3, but they could also revoke your Stamp 4 EUFAM because you don't qualify for it anymore.

[El shaddai]

I have never heard of anybody been ask to leave the state because partner EU citizen is not exercising her treaty right.

It is worth trying to go ahead and submit your application as long as your wife is still residing in Ireland, you may be lucky.

Have u any kids together?

[jeupsy]

I have never heard of anybody been ask to leave the state because partner EU citizen is not exercising her treaty right.

Here: http://www.immigrationboards.com/viewtopic.php?t=132294

When the non-EU citizen applied to renew their Stamp 4 EUFam they were told by INIS that they actually lost the right to hold it 2 years earlier when their spouse took voluntary redundancy. I don't know how often they would do that and if they would actually go as far as deporting someone - but at least they have once stated that a card expired before the 5 years due to changes of employment circumstances.

[El shaddai]

This is a very different scenario because he took a voluntary dedundancy and join the dole.
But i am strongly believe that it is not going to be a straight forward and easy decision for the state to kick them out. They can fight their case with a very competent Lawyer.

[iamanalien]

Thanks for the replies...

We don't have any children together.

I am considering consulting with an immigration lawyer for advice on what the best route to take with my application.

Good idea?

[jeupsy]

Good idea?

I think so yes. You don't necessarily have to pay them to make the application for you (they charge a lot), but just a consultation to get advice might be a good idea (and then if it turns out to be complex you can go through them but if it is straight forward you can do it yourself). I am still of the opinion that you should be careful, but do post here what the outcome is if you don't mind; this will be helpful if some people are in the same situation in the future.

All the best!

[dalebutt]

Have you considered naturalisation? After 5 years of legal residence in Ireland you may be eligible to apply for naturalisation.

If you submit you application for naturalisation, I would suggest you submit another application for stam4EUFAM again if you think or do not meet the requirement for EU3

[iamanalien]

I don't see much harm in applying for naturalization so I'll do that.

Re applying for Stamp4 Eufam seems like a good idea. So, If I apply for the EU3 next April, at what stage should I apply for a Stamp4 EUFAM.

I was issued with a 5 year 4EUFAM certificate the last time. Would I get the same next time?

Kind Regards.

[iamanalien]

Oh...God willing I will definitely keep this forum updated about any progress or lack thereof.

[dalebutt]

There will be no point applying for EU3 if you think you do not meet the requirement or you expressly do not meet the requirements.

Apply for naturalisation, submit a new application for stamp4, reason being, whilst your naturalisation application is pending you wont be without a confirmation of right in Ireland and you could travel in the process.

[archigabe]

You should be able to apply if your EU spouse is residing on a self sufficient basis (ie. have private health insurance) since stopped studying/ working

[dalebutt]

I do not think that is the case in op's case

[iamanalien]

Hello Friends,

Thank you for your replies.

I have some more questions.

What effect would it have on my EU3 application, if my wife, a British citizen, who has been living here more than five years, became a permanent resident.

Article 16 of Directive 2004/38/EC states:

Article 16
General rule for Union citizens and their family members
1. Union citizens who have resided legally for a continuous period of five years in the host
Member State shall have the right of permanent residence there. This right shall not be subject to
the conditions provided for in Chapter III.

Does this mean that she qualifies for PR even if she is unemployed.

If she was to become an Irish citizen through naturalization, how would that affect my EU3 application.

Kind regards.

[spicy]

You should be able to apply if your EU spouse is residing on a self sufficient basis (ie. have private health insurance) since stopped studying/ working

Hi, I am an Indian national, I got married in 2009. My spouse is from Poland. I got my STAMP 4 EU FAM in January, 2010. We are separated since April 2013 and i've informed it to INIS in April 2013. My spouse worked only 15-20 weeks since 2010. She never took the social benefit and she also had private health insurance for last four years. When I applied for retention on my personal basis, INIS asked me to provide divorce certificate and her activities for last three years. As my spouse was here, I had house agreement, utility bill on both name and prtb letter. My visa is going to expire end of december 2014. I don't know what to do in this situation. As far as I know, people has to be separated for four years to get divorced here in Ireland, how can I provide a divorce certificate now.

Can anyone help me, what to do in this situation. I would much appreciate if anyone have same situation like me if they share their situation to resolve the problem.

[bluemoon2]

@Spicy , i got my retention application approved, did you use EU form 4 when you informed INIS in March 2013 or you just write them a letter ? its more than 1 year now, they must have decided now about your application , how many letters they wrote you after you informed them and what did they write in last letter ?

[spicy]

@Spicy , i got my retention application approved, did you use EU form 4 when you informed INIS in March 2013 or you just write them a letter ? its more than 1 year now, they must have decided now about your application , how many letters they wrote you after you informed them and what did they write in last letter ?

Hi Bluemoon,

Thanks for your reply. Yes, I did fill out a form through my solicitor, not sure which form was it. Possibly form 4. I got only one letter from DOJ through my solicitor was saying, my application is under consideration. They asked for my spouses activities from September 2009 to April 2013 and Divorce certificate. As I already said, she only worked nearly 20 weeks during this time which DOJ also mentioned in the letter as well. In Sep 2009 when I got my STAMP 4 EU FAM, I only got four years visa as my passport was expiring within four years at that time. In the letter DOJ sent me recently, they also mentioned to go to GNIB with a extended passport to get the reminder of the visa which I got without my spouse. I was always working in Ireland never got any social benefit even my spouse. My yearly income was 32-33k per year and always had private health insurance for both of us since 2009. Won't it be enough to write to DOJ that I am with the self sufficient funds?

As I have to be separated three more years to get divorce here in Ireland, I've already started the process of Divorce from India, will my Indian divorce certificate be accepted here in Ireland?? Will you please let me know.

I would much appreciate if you reply me again. Thanks.

[spicy]

Hi Bluemoon, can I get your email address please please