speeding + no insurance + disqualified - ILR ???

[jumpstart17253]

Hello everyone here,

This is my case ,

(before 2 years) 3 points - speeding 39 in 30 road - 60£ fine
(withing 2 years) 6 points - driving(riding) without insurance - 200£ fine
(withing 2 years) 3 points - speeding 37 in 30 road - 60£ fine

reached 12 points - was disqualified - 365£ fine from magistrates court.

- banned for 4 months

- license returned by dvla with tt99 code (totting up ban).

have done
CRB basic - came Clean
PNC check - came Clean

- have got appointment booked this month.

Should I apply for ILR ?


Your help will be appreciated.

Thanks in advance.

[jumpstart17253]

please members,

this is really a headache...

your guidance will surely help me decide

[Amber]

please members,

this is really a headache...

your guidance will surely help me decide

You need to post your issue on one thread only!

For your case under part 9 of the immigration rules, a general grounds for refusal is where the applicant has:

"within the 24 months preceding the date of the application, been convicted of or admitted an offence for which they have received a non-custodial sentence or other out of court disposal that is recorded on their criminal record"

The most important aspect of this is that the non-custodial sentence is recorded on your criminal record. As you are saying that your criminal record does not have a record of your non-custodial sentence that would imply that you should not face refusal. However, those are mandatory refusals, there could be a discretionary refusal where there is a pattern of re-offending. Although, an FPN should not constitute offending (unless given by the Court and recorded on your criminal record).

[jumpstart17253]

i apologise as i first posted in general and then in indefinite leave to remain
and i don't know how to delete the post.


thanks for your answer, would like to know others views as well.

[jumpstart17253]

I see on the SET O form it says you don't need to declare speeding and parking tickets,

so, if i mention driving without insurance only and as my CRB is clean,

Also, I had asked aylesbury court magistrate judge when I was fined that wether it will appear on CRB and he specifically mentioned it will Not and
said this is not a criminal offence.

so does that mean I am safe ...

please guys... want more people to help here...

thanks in advance

[Amber]

I see on the SET O form it says you don't need to declare speeding and parking tickets,

so, if i mention driving without insurance only and as my CRB is clean,

Also, I had asked aylesbury court magistrate judge when I was fined that wether it will appear on CRB and he specifically mentioned it will Not and
said this is not a criminal offence.

so does that mean I am safe ...

please guys... want more people to help here...

thanks in advance

I would disagree if you were convicted at a magistrates court it would be a criminal conviction. However, it may not form part of your criminal record.

You need to be sure as to what constitutes your 'criminal record' if only information held on the PNC then you should be ok as it's not recorded.

[jumpstart17253]

Its not even on PNC as I have PNC Check and it came clean.

Also, do you think a basic CRB check would omit these offences.
as my basic CRB check is clean as well.

[Amber]

Its not even on PNC as I have PNC Check and it came clean.

Also, do you think a basic CRB check would omit these offences.
as my basic CRB check is clean as well.

A basic CRB check only shows unspent convictions. You need to be certain that for the purpose of part 9 of the immigration rules your criminal record does not show a non-custodial conviction in the last 24 months.

[jumpstart17253]

so,

which other certification is there that will show criminal record?
i have crb and pnc.

[Amber]

so,

which other certification is there that will show criminal record?
i have crb and pnc.

Systems which the public are not privy to. Though, I suspect that the PNC is what the HO will search to populate an applicant's criminal record.

[Kevin24]

so,

which other certification is there that will show criminal record?
i have crb and pnc.

Systems which the public are not privy to. Though, I suspect that the PNC is what the HO will search to populate an applicant's criminal record.

At the time of Biometrics,UKBA uses a "Wider UK Computer System" to check an Applicant's criminal record. It's results are so Thorough than an Enhanced CRB check.

[jumpstart17253]

i got my biometrics done at my last extension, will they re do this for me?

[Amber]

i got my biometrics done at my last extension, will they re do this for me?

Yes.

[jumpstart17253]

Also on met police website it says what will include in your PNC Check.

http://content.met.police.uk/Article/Ma ... 0005855548

and it reads as below

You should use this form if you need a check to be made against your conviction history records. This will include court convictions, police cautions/warnings, reprimands and Penalty Notice for Disorder [PND]. This form must be printed and completed following the instructions contained on the form. It must be sent direct to ACRO - address on the form. See 'Related publications' box (bottom-right) to view/download PNC form.


so definitely my conviction was not recorded as criminal on police national computer.

[Amber]

Also on met police website it says what will include in your PNC Check.

http://content.met.police.uk/Article/Ma ... 0005855548

and it reads as below

You should use this form if you need a check to be made against your conviction history records. This will include court convictions, police cautions/warnings, reprimands and Penalty Notice for Disorder [PND]. This form must be printed and completed following the instructions contained on the form. It must be sent direct to ACRO - address on the form. See 'Related publications' box (bottom-right) to view/download PNC form.


so definitely my conviction was not recorded as criminal on police national computer.

The issue again, is whether for the purpose of part 9 of the immigration rules, your criminal record is only what information is held on the pnc or not.

[Kevin24]

Also on met police website it says what will include in your PNC Check.

http://content.met.police.uk/Article/Ma ... 0005855548

and it reads as below

You should use this form if you need a check to be made against your conviction history records. This will include court convictions, police cautions/warnings, reprimands and Penalty Notice for Disorder [PND]. This form must be printed and completed following the instructions contained on the form. It must be sent direct to ACRO - address on the form. See 'Related publications' box (bottom-right) to view/download PNC form.


so definitely my conviction was not recorded as criminal on police national computer.

The issue again, is whether for the purpose of part 9 of the immigration rules, your criminal record is only what information is held on the pnc or not.

Hi! Amber, At the time of OP's ILR,has he got to declare these offenses on the SET O Form / in a seprate sheet of Paper?

[Amber]

Also on met police website it says what will include in your PNC Check.

http://content.met.police.uk/Article/Ma ... 0005855548

and it reads as below

You should use this form if you need a check to be made against your conviction history records. This will include court convictions, police cautions/warnings, reprimands and Penalty Notice for Disorder [PND]. This form must be printed and completed following the instructions contained on the form. It must be sent direct to ACRO - address on the form. See 'Related publications' box (bottom-right) to view/download PNC form.


so definitely my conviction was not recorded as criminal on police national computer.

The issue again, is whether for the purpose of part 9 of the immigration rules, your criminal record is only what information is held on the pnc or not.

Hi! Amber, At the time of OP's ILR,has he got to declare these offenses on the SET O Form / in a seprate sheet of Paper?

I believe section 7 would need to be completed. In particular a positive answer to section 7.1. The FPNs would not necessarily need to be declared but the Court disqualification would need to be.

[Kevin24]

Also on met police website it says what will include in your PNC Check.

http://content.met.police.uk/Article/Ma ... 0005855548

and it reads as below

You should use this form if you need a check to be made against your conviction history records. This will include court convictions, police cautions/warnings, reprimands and Penalty Notice for Disorder [PND]. This form must be printed and completed following the instructions contained on the form. It must be sent direct to ACRO - address on the form. See 'Related publications' box (bottom-right) to view/download PNC form.


so definitely my conviction was not recorded as criminal on police national computer.

The issue again, is whether for the purpose of part 9 of the immigration rules, your criminal record is only what information is held on the pnc or not.

Hi! Amber, At the time of OP's ILR,has he got to declare these offenses on the SET O Form / in a seprate sheet of Paper?

I believe section 7 would need to be completed. In particular a positive answer to section 7.1. The FPNs would not necessarily need to be declared but the Court disqualification would need to be.

Thank You. You are more informed than My Solicitor. Thank God she did not handle My ILR application.

[jumpstart17253]

Hi Guys,

my license was provisional and still is.

do you think that is why its not recorded as criminal conviction?

[jumpstart17253]

Also guys this is what I found

http://www.drivingban.co.uk/drivingban/ ... riving.htm

Will I now have a criminal record? / Is a driving ban a criminal offence?

The vast majority of driving offences are dealt with the Magistrates' Court. If you are banned under the totting up procedure, or receive an instant ban for say, speeding, you will not receive a criminal record as these are not arrestable offences. However, the more serious offences, such as death by dangerous driving etc will result in a criminal record.


I think this is why magistrate had told me that it is not criminal offence.
And may be that is why I dont have criminal record.

[Amber]

Hi Guys,

my license was provisional and still is.

do you think that is why its not recorded as criminal conviction?

No I think that because it was a court conviction (I assume you received a summons and either attended court or agreed) it would not be recorded on the PNC.

If your criminal record is just a result of the PNC data then it would appear you do not need to wait 24 months. However, if the criminal record shows a non-custodial conviction then it would be a general grounds for refusal for 24 months. However, it appears that at the PEO they are granting certain people settlement despite having a police caution within the last 24 months. Something that amounts to a non-custodial sentence per part 9 and is also recorded on the PNC. So if you are willing to take a risk then the PEO would perhaps be the best option.

[jumpstart17253]

Hi,

that is correct, I was sent summons by the court and i agreed to pay the fine.

the judge initially gave me 6 months but reduced to 4 after a bit of negotiation.

my last speeding was in november 2011. 1 year and 7 months ago.

according to the guidance a repeated offender is one who gets more than
2 fpn or any other problem in the 12 months (year) preceding to the application.

[Amber]

Hi,

that is correct, I was sent summons by the court and i agreed to pay the fine.

the judge initially gave me 6 months but reduced to 4 after a bit of negotiation.

my last speeding was in november 2011. 1 year and 7 months ago.

according to the guidance a repeated offender is one who gets more than
2 fpn or any other problem in the 12 months (year) preceding to the application.

The issue is 1. whether the 'conviction' is a 'non-custodial conviction' and 2. whether it is recorded on your 'criminal record' for the purpose of Part 9.

[jumpstart17253]

A custodial sentence is defined on internet as

A custodial sentence is a judicial sentence, imposing a punishment (and hence the resulting punishment itself) consisting of mandatory custody of the convict, either in prison (incarceration) or in some other closed therapeutic and/or (re)educational institution, such as a reformatory, (maximum security) psychiatry or drug detoxification (especially cold turkey).

Every other sentence and punishment is non-custodial, such as fines, judicial beatings, various mandatory but 'open' therapy and courses, restriction orders, loss or suspension of civil rights, or even suspended sentences.

so it was clearly non-custodial

[Amber]

I am not disputing that it was a non-custodial sentence the question is whether that 'non-custodial' sentence is recorded on your 'criminal record'. As it's not on the pnc I would be inclined to say not, however, I don't know whether it's worth risking it or going for the safer option - an extension. That decision is up to you.