MILLION DOLLAR QUESTION - 50K PSW ROUTE - HELP NEEDED !!

[Entrepreneur9]

I have been an active member on this forum since a couple of months now. I have a very quick question for all of you. Any, any replies would be highly appreciated

I have a Tier 1 enterpreneur visa applied through 50K PSW route. Lets say for example, I have started an IT company – XYZ Solutions Ltd

Company provides IT Support Services to small and medium sized businesses (this is NQF Level 4 and above – so no problem)

Company also provides Web Designing and Development services (this is NQF Level 4 and above – so no problem)

Company also buys and sells IT equipments (trading) – for example laptops, desktops, printers, smart phones, parts and spares, etc. Company buys it, refurbishes it and then sells it on for a very small profit (This is the problem as this is below NFQ Level 4)

Company would be investing atleast 90% of investment funds (which is 45K) in buying IT equipments and then selling it on later for some profit. And the remaning 10% would be invested on other aspects of business like renting an office, buying a company car, expenses, marketing, website, etc.

As you can all appreciate, the company cannot just provide IT support services, or just web development services. The company has a very few clients at present so the company is hunting for other aspects within the business so it can keep the employees busy all the time.

In short, XYZ Solutions Ltd provides complete IT Support services, web designing and development, buy and sell IT equipments and so on.

So my question is “will I face any problem during extension”
“Can my visa be refused stating that the business is not at level 4 or above”

Any comments would be highly appreciated.
All comments welcome
Thank you guys and God Bless You all
(Also as I have already got the visa, I would be more than happy to help anyone if they need my help with something)

[Mr Legal]

I have been an active member on this forum since a couple of months now. I have a very quick question for all of you. Any, any replies would be highly appreciated

I have a Tier 1 enterpreneur visa applied through 50K PSW route. Lets say for example, I have started an IT company – XYZ Solutions Ltd

Company provides IT Support Services to small and medium sized businesses (this is NQF Level 4 and above – so no problem)

Company also provides Web Designing and Development services (this is NQF Level 4 and above – so no problem)

Company also buys and sells IT equipments (trading) – for example laptops, desktops, printers, smart phones, parts and spares, etc. Company buys it, refurbishes it and then sells it on for a very small profit (This is the problem as this is below NFQ Level 4)

Company would be investing atleast 90% of investment funds (which is 45K) in buying IT equipments and then selling it on later for some profit. And the remaning 10% would be invested on other aspects of business like renting an office, buying a company car, expenses, marketing, website, etc.

As you can all appreciate, the company cannot just provide IT support services, or just web development services. The company has a very few clients at present so the company is hunting for other aspects within the business so it can keep the employees busy all the time.

In short, XYZ Solutions Ltd provides complete IT Support services, web designing and development, buy and sell IT equipments and so on.

So my question is “will I face any problem during extension”
“Can my visa be refused stating that the business is not at level 4 or above”

Any comments would be highly appreciated.
All comments welcome
Thank you guys and God Bless You all
(Also as I have already got a visa, I would be more than happy to help anyone if they need my help with something)

If it is million dollar or 0 dollar question but at least you need to think for sometime and to differentiate between sale purchase of product and services and then basis of your status and its condition as now you are an entrerpreneur.Sale purchase of product cannot qualify you under this category of 50k initially or the later in extension.This could create problem for our extension if you show your invested money in sale purchase of product.You can establish or take over one or more businesses under this category at level 4 or above at the moment and present regulations,however,your million dollar dream may hit your immigration condition as it falls below level 4.

[Entrepreneur9]

Mr Legal - Thank you for reading my post and for the quick reply. Really appreciated.

I understand what you are saying but my business is above level 4, its only one of the departments within the business that is below level 4.

I got my visa by using this business, its just that I have recently started buying and selling. But overall my business falls over level 4 and above. Do you agree?

I have been an active member on this forum since a couple of months now. I have a very quick question for all of you. Any, any replies would be highly appreciated

I have a Tier 1 enterpreneur visa applied through 50K PSW route. Lets say for example, I have started an IT company – XYZ Solutions Ltd

Company provides IT Support Services to small and medium sized businesses (this is NQF Level 4 and above – so no problem)

Company also provides Web Designing and Development services (this is NQF Level 4 and above – so no problem)

Company also buys and sells IT equipments (trading) – for example laptops, desktops, printers, smart phones, parts and spares, etc. Company buys it, refurbishes it and then sells it on for a very small profit (This is the problem as this is below NFQ Level 4)

Company would be investing atleast 90% of investment funds (which is 45K) in buying IT equipments and then selling it on later for some profit. And the remaning 10% would be invested on other aspects of business like renting an office, buying a company car, expenses, marketing, website, etc.

As you can all appreciate, the company cannot just provide IT support services, or just web development services. The company has a very few clients at present so the company is hunting for other aspects within the business so it can keep the employees busy all the time.

In short, XYZ Solutions Ltd provides complete IT Support services, web designing and development, buy and sell IT equipments and so on.

So my question is “will I face any problem during extension”
“Can my visa be refused stating that the business is not at level 4 or above”

Any comments would be highly appreciated.
All comments welcome
Thank you guys and God Bless You all
(Also as I have already got a visa, I would be more than happy to help anyone if they need my help with something)

If it is million dollar or 0 dollar question but at least you need to think for sometime and to differentiate between sale purchase of product and services and then basis of your status and its condition as now you are an entrerpreneur.Sale purchase of product cannot qualify you under this category of 50k initially or the later in extension.This could create problem for our extension if you show your invested money in sale purchase of product.You can establish or take over one or more businesses under this category at level 4 or above at the moment and present regulations,however,your million dollar dream may hit your immigration condition as it falls below level 4.

[Mr Legal]

yes the first option on which you have obtained your visa is ok but the second one of product cannot support you in extension rather than extra monetary benefit off the record.So keep it off the record if you may wish and think to stabilize your real business to source your future extension.Good luck

[Naheedsammar]

You have answerd ur million dollar qs urself i think. u r saying u gonna spend 90% of ur funds on buying and selling the products which is just a part of the whole business activity and its also below level 4 and 10% for other expenses. what r u investing on the activity u got visa for?

[KickAss]

Let me ask you one question .
How come majority of ur fund will be invested on buying and selling ?
Lets say you purchased a 45000 pounds server storage, set up a SAN, Fiber network and software's.
As you said one of your core service is buying and Selling hardware.
So you buy it for 450000 and sell it for lets say 47000.
Where is investment money ???
I wont consider that as an investment as if that would have been the case then I will buy a 50000 fully loaded server and sell it for 52000 and I am done with investment ?

Similarly if you are a company of 2-3 individuals (Including you) and you buy a 45000 server saying that you are using for your company then its B******
As no one can justify that.

So in my opinion you can do buying and selling business but that should not be the only core service you are providing. and more over, I don't see how you will be able to invest 45000 or similar amount as business expenses by just hardware buying and selling.
Cheers

[RizKCB]

Letting you know on general basis:

One of my friend got Entrepreneur visa, recently he contacted UKBA through email and asked about if he could start any new business.

UKBA replied him, Yes he could do but the profession should be level 4 or above. (He was previously on PSW)

[confused90]

Let me ask you one question .
How come majority of ur fund will be invested on buying and selling ?
Lets say you purchased a 45000 pounds server storage, set up a SAN, Fiber network and software's.
As you said one of your core service is buying and Selling hardware.
So you buy it for 450000 and sell it for lets say 47000.
Where is investment money ???
I wont consider that as an investment as if that would have been the case then I will buy a 50000 fully loaded server and sell it for 52000 and I am done with investment ?

Similarly if you are a company of 2-3 individuals (Including you) and you buy a 45000 server saying that you are using for your company then its B******
As no one can justify that.

So in my opinion you can do buying and selling business but that should not be the only core service you are providing. and more over, I don't see how you will be able to invest 45000 or similar amount as business expenses by just hardware buying and selling.
Cheers

Well Kickass, Since the company is 'purchasing' the server it's an investment as goods are purchased for inventory held for sale. The server can be sold after a month, a year or on credit as-well. I would consider this as an investment, since in trading businesses money is invested in inventory.

Correct me if I am wrong.

[KickAss]

Ok lets consider it as an investment, but tell me what will happen when you will sell it ?
As soon as you will sell it, the earned money will be company's money and it will be credited back to company's bank account . So money is liquidated and not invested.
and if this kinda investment is legitimate investment, then the best thing is to buy a 50,000 hardware a month before extension, wait till you get it and sell it again for a profit.
close the company and take out the money by paying remaining tax.

I personally think the hardware that you are using for your own business use is an appropriate expense. for example, buying laptops / monitors for your employees to code a software. Plus, those hardware will be used until you upgrade them or are obsolete.

[educators]

Letting you know on general basis:

One of my friend got Entrepreneur visa, recently he contacted UKBA through email and asked about if he could start any new business.

UKBA replied him, Yes he could do but the profession should be level 4 or above. (He was previously on PSW)

Do u mean your friend own occupation/job title or occupation means by business activity should be at graduate level?

[RizKCB]

Its about job title only, nothing about business level.

Maybe because job title speaks itself about business level when we interpret 'Working Context'.

[Entrepreneur9]

Naheedsammar - thanks for the reply. There is nothing much to invest on the activity I got my visa under. This is the reason I have started trading within the same business. Do you think there is any other solution to the problem? Any suggestions? thanks

You have answerd ur million dollar qs urself i think. u r saying u gonna spend 90% of ur funds on buying and selling the products which is just a part of the whole business activity and its also below level 4 and 10% for other expenses. what r u investing on the activity u got visa for?

[Entrepreneur9]

KickAss - how are you my friend? I can assure you that if you buy a fully loaded server for 50000 and sell it for 52000, that is investment. I have had a word with one of the accountants and he said that what ever you buy for the business and then sell it on is a part of an investment.

Let me ask you one question .
How come majority of ur fund will be invested on buying and selling ?
Lets say you purchased a 45000 pounds server storage, set up a SAN, Fiber network and software's.
As you said one of your core service is buying and Selling hardware.
So you buy it for 450000 and sell it for lets say 47000.
Where is investment money ???
I wont consider that as an investment as if that would have been the case then I will buy a 50000 fully loaded server and sell it for 52000 and I am done with investment ?

Similarly if you are a company of 2-3 individuals (Including you) and you buy a 45000 server saying that you are using for your company then its B******
As no one can justify that.

So in my opinion you can do buying and selling business but that should not be the only core service you are providing. and more over, I don't see how you will be able to invest 45000 or similar amount as business expenses by just hardware buying and selling.
Cheers

[Entrepreneur9]

RizKCB - thanks for the reply bro. Thats really great if that is true. So basically the job title must be level 4 and above and I can do any business? Is that what they are saying?

Letting you know on general basis:

One of my friend got Entrepreneur visa, recently he contacted UKBA through email and asked about if he could start any new business.

UKBA replied him, Yes he could do but the profession should be level 4 or above. (He was previously on PSW)

[Entrepreneur9]

I agree with confused90, that is an investment.

Let me ask you one question .
How come majority of ur fund will be invested on buying and selling ?
Lets say you purchased a 45000 pounds server storage, set up a SAN, Fiber network and software's.
As you said one of your core service is buying and Selling hardware.
So you buy it for 450000 and sell it for lets say 47000.
Where is investment money ???
I wont consider that as an investment as if that would have been the case then I will buy a 50000 fully loaded server and sell it for 52000 and I am done with investment ?

Similarly if you are a company of 2-3 individuals (Including you) and you buy a 45000 server saying that you are using for your company then its B******
As no one can justify that.

So in my opinion you can do buying and selling business but that should not be the only core service you are providing. and more over, I don't see how you will be able to invest 45000 or similar amount as business expenses by just hardware buying and selling.
Cheers

Well Kickass, Since the company is 'purchasing' the server it's an investment as goods are purchased for inventory held for sale. The server can be sold after a month, a year or on credit as-well. I would consider this as an investment, since in trading businesses money is invested in inventory.

Correct me if I am wrong.

[Entrepreneur9]

RizKCB - Are you sure about this? Lets say I open a fish and chips shop, I am the Business Development Manager (level 6) for the business. Will I get an extension? I doubt it? What do you say? thanks

Its about job title only, nothing about business level.

Maybe because job title speaks itself about business level when we interpret 'Working Context'.

[RizKCB]

@Entrepreneur9

My friend, the confusions and doubts in your mind are also in my mind.

Basically me and my other friends also discussed on the same topic and were wondering the way UKBA replied. We were surprised why UKBA is so strict in initial application if they dont take in account the level of business during extension.

But i personally dont rely blindly whatever UKBA says. Its better to query UKBA personally and keep a copy of that email safe just in case and also keep watching the latest policies. Because policy is more authenticated stuff to follow than any email response.

[Naheedsammar]

Fir extention u need to hire two employees. Their salaries in 3 years+office rent+ insurance+purchasing softwares+bills+advertising+office maintenane+other expenses i bet u ll end up spendung or investing more thsn 50k in 3 years time.

[confused90]

Fir extention u need to hire two employees. Their salaries in 3 years+office rent+ insurance+purchasing softwares+bills+advertising+office maintenane+other expenses i bet u ll end up spendung or investing more thsn 50k in 3 years time.

what about the people who are under the 200K route?

Hiring 10 employees (if going for the accelerated route) will cost approx. 100K + office rent + office maintenance + inventory held for sale

And KickAss, my money from 'overseas' is being converted into British Sterling Pounds and pumped into the British economy cause I'll be buying products sold here.

I am pretty sure that shall be enough for investment, agree with me Kickass?

[Entrepreneur9]

RizKCB - I agree with what you are saying. Its always better to follow the policies and changes implemented by UKBA.

@Entrepreneur9

My friend, the confusions and doubts in your mind are also in my mind.

Basically me and my other friends also discussed on the same topic and were wondering the way UKBA replied. We were surprised why UKBA is so strict in initial application if they dont take in account the level of business during extension.

But i personally dont rely blindly whatever UKBA says. Its better to query UKBA personally and keep a copy of that email safe just in case and also keep watching the latest policies. Because policy is more authenticated stuff to follow than any email response.

[rsrameshsunil]

I really doubt if that would be a problem while extension. As per the guidelines, you are free to do whatever you want after you obtain the visa. All you need to do is to invest 50k into any of your businesses and prove that you have done so. The NQF/ level stuff does not apply anymore and these things aren't present in the extension application forms. UKBA customer care helpline people are non-sense. They do not know what they talk about. If you put the same question in different way you get a different answer. So do not rely on their responses.

Anyway During an extension application, the extension attributes only ask you to :

"You have invested, or had invested on your behalf, not less than £200,000 (or £50,000 if, in your last grant of leave, you were awarded points for funds of £50,000) directly into one or more businesses in the UK."

It clearly says one or more businesses. You do not have any restrictions once you obtain the initial visa.

Also, Please note the following point from policy guidance

70.We recognise that, as an entrepreneur, you may have moved on to other activities and no longer be involved in the business in which you initially invested, but we still require this evidence to show that the money was invested.

At the time of extension, You just need to prove that the money has gone into businesses that you own. The entire amount can be split with multiple businesses. Moreover, the extension application form does not contain any fields about the type of services/business details/Job title/nature of business etc.... All you would require is an accountant confirming that the funds have gone into the business "XXXX LTD".

NQF level and stuff is just a requirement to claim points for 50k route. And remember 50k-psw route is just an option to attain entrepreneur visa, its not a "Condition of Stay".

[Entrepreneur9]

rsrameshsunil - thanks for your reply.

Please check the link below for extension applicants:

Please check "engaged in business actitvity" where is clearly says that

You are are working in an occupation which appears on the list of occupations skilled to National Qualifications Framework level 4 or above, as stated in the Codes of Practice in Appendix J of the Immigration Rules and the Codes of Practice for Tier 2 Sponsors and you provide the specified evidence in paragraph 41-SD.

http://www.ukba.homeoffice.gov.uk/visas ... igibility/

Any suggestions?

I really doubt if that would be a problem while extension. As per the guidelines, you are free to do whatever you want after you obtain the visa. All you need to do is to invest 50k into any of your businesses and prove that you have done so. The NQF/ level stuff does not apply anymore and these things aren't present in the extension application forms. UKBA customer care helpline people are non-sense. They do not know what they talk about. If you put the same question in different way you get a different answer. So do not rely on their responses.

Anyway During an extension application, the extension attributes only ask you to :

"You have invested, or had invested on your behalf, not less than £200,000 (or £50,000 if, in your last grant of leave, you were awarded points for funds of £50,000) directly into one or more businesses in the UK."

It clearly says one or more businesses. You do not have any restrictions once you obtain the initial visa.

Also, Please note the following point from policy guidance

70.We recognise that, as an entrepreneur, you may have moved on to other activities and no longer be involved in the business in which you initially invested, but we still require this evidence to show that the money was invested.

At the time of extension, You just need to prove that the money has gone into businesses that you own. The entire amount can be split with multiple businesses. Moreover, the extension application form does not contain any fields about the type of services/business details/Job title/nature of business etc.... All you would require is an accountant confirming that the funds have gone into the business "XXXX LTD".

[rsrameshsunil]

That looks like an error on the Website. Silly UKBA copy pasted the same content for intial applications and extension application.

Please use the policy guidance and take a look at the extension section. You can double check it with the extension application form.

[Entrepreneur9]

Naheedsammar - thanks for your reply bro. Lets say I invest over 50K in my business on salaries, rent, insurance, expenses, etc. However I also keep trading (buying and selling) within the same business. Do you think that may be a problem with extension as this is not level 4? Please advice?

Fir extention u need to hire two employees. Their salaries in 3 years+office rent+ insurance+purchasing softwares+bills+advertising+office maintenane+other expenses i bet u ll end up spendung or investing more thsn 50k in 3 years time.

[Entrepreneur9]

rsrameshsunil - I have checked the policy guidance and also the extension application. You are right, it says nothing about the level of business or job title.

I really dont understand what is wrong with UKBA. How can they make such an error and confuse applicants ? I believe they should really be punished for all the nonsense they are doing. I understand they are just behind money but for God sake please understand our situation too. How are we supposed to work when we arent 100% sure about the requirements?

That looks like an error on the Website. Silly UKBA copy pasted the same content for intial applications and extension application.

Please use the policy guidance and take a look at the extension section. You can double check it with the extension application form.