Moving to Ireland under the EU directive - Urgent!

[Jellybean105]

Hi everyone

This is my situation so far - my husband came to the uk a couple of years ago on a student visa and last year he was refused an extension so he appealed but that was rejected. Since then, we applied for a spouse visa (after completing all the ridiculous requirements:shock:) and that was also refused.
In Feburary I had gone to Ireland (as we were previously going to take the surrinder route) and I set up my business and currently I have a place to stay there as well. Now, we want to move to Ireland.

My husband got a letter saying he needs to call up and discuss his plans to leave the country by 15th July. They have not returned his passport and from what I have heard they give him the passport once he has a ticket out of the UK.


My question is, will the UK immigration let my husband go to Ireland. I know that in theory he should be allowed to go with me as long as we have our passports and our marriage certificate but if he calls them up and says I'd like to move to Ireland with my wife, will they accept that? Will they not just say 'you don't have an visa for Ireland'? Or will they tell him to go back home?

Has anyone had any similar experiences of getting their passport back?
I have sent photocopies to Ireland embassy in the UK in the hope that they can give me a letter or something to allow my husband to enter Ireland (or atleast get his passport back from HO).

Also, since my business has been set up since Feb and I have utility bills in my name can I apply for my husbands RC as soon as we get his name on the bill?

I'd really appreciate some help!
Thanks

[IntegratedMigrant]

Because his passport is currently not on hold because he committed an offence in the UK, where you travel is really not their business!.

The reason I believe they wanted to discuss his plans is to know why he wants to abandon his spouse visa application.

Even without a Visa in his passport, he can travel with you outside of the UK.

Someone had any similar experience, travelling with her Spouse without any Visa and they let them through.

[Jellybean105]

IntegratedMigrant -Thank for your reply! Thats good news for me. I did think it was none of their business as long as he leaves the UK but needed some clarification.

About the call, the spouse visa application was refused by them and it states no appeal basically because they believe I can live in his home country and they expect me to drop everything and leave my over £18,600 before tax profit business in the UK. Sorry but the whole spouse process has got me really riled up.

Hopefully going to Ireland and coming back will be a lot less stressful, easier and a bit more fun!

[IntegratedMigrant]

IntegratedMigrant -Thank for your reply! Thats good news for me. I did think it was none of their business as long as he leaves the UK but needed some clarification.

About the call, the spouse visa application was refused by them and it states no appeal basically because they believe I can live in his home country and they expect me to drop everything and leave my over £18,600 before tax profit business in the UK. Sorry but the whole spouse process has got me really riled up.

Hopefully going to Ireland and coming back will be a lot less stressful, easier and a bit more fun!

What was the reason for refusal of the Spouse Visa application? Its ludicrous that they wont even let you appeal!?

They really dont like your husband do they?.

[wiggsy]

IntegratedMigrant -Thank for your reply! Thats good news for me. I did think it was none of their business as long as he leaves the UK but needed some clarification.

About the call, the spouse visa application was refused by them and it states no appeal basically because they believe I can live in his home country and they expect me to drop everything and leave my over £18,600 before tax profit business in the UK. Sorry but the whole spouse process has got me really riled up.

Hopefully going to Ireland and coming back will be a lot less stressful, easier and a bit more fun!

(I think you are the person I directed here from the Expat forums?)

The hardest part will be travelling without a passport. The Home Office know this... The major problems we (my wife) had in obtaining an Irish Visa was that she didn't have a current passport. We got a new passport, but the Irish embassy wanted her old (expired) passport.

At the border you can confirm your ID by other means... I would assume the fact that the Home Office state that they hold his passport is sufficient. Simply give them 14 days notice that you intend to travel to Ireland. (Dont ASK) - TELL THEM to either send your passport to you, or meet you at the XXX port where you will be travelling from.

UN conventions prohibit a country from refusal to let you leave ANY country.
EU Law gives your spouse the option to go to Ireland.

Ireland and the UK have a special arrangement to control the borders... (much like the shengen area)... They don't intend to make Singh too easy because of this... (this is prob why France is the next best choice)...

Did your spouse have Leave to Remain at the time of application... If not...

Also, Article 8 and Zambrano means that the UKBA CANNOT USE THE REASONING " Because they can leave the EEA" - so you still have JR open on the basis that the Decision Maker didnt excersise the discretion within law that they have been instructed to do so....

Article 8 and Zambrano Immigration Directorate Instructions:
See annex A of my FOI request response...
https://www.whatdotheyknow.com/request/ ... 027354.pdf

(a) Cases where the primary carer is being removed or deported to a country outside the EEA, but a Zambrano right is refused on the basis that the British citizen will be able to continue to live in the EEA with another parent

In some circumstances the case worker will refuse to recognise that the adult migrant has a right to residence here on the basis of Zambrano because the child or disabled adult could remain in the UK with another parent or carer and would not therefore be compelled to leave the EEA. Where a refusal is made on this basis, and the case worker is then considering the Article 8 rights of the primary carer, they cannot conclude that there will be no interference with family life because the family can live together as a family unit in a country outside the EEA. To do so would directly conflict with the basis upon which recognition of the Zambrano right had been refused.

Such instructions must be afforded equally to all... If it can apply to a disabled man/woman applying, then the same principle not being applied to a non-disabled person would clearly be reverse discrimination...

[Jellybean105]

IntegratedMigrant - they refused it because his ILR had expired. When he applied for spouse, it was during his appeal (and I assumed that, that was within the 28 days) but turns out they count it from the previous valid visa - so that was a year ago.
Other reason was that I could go and live with him in his country as we have no children etc
And thirdly something like he has broken ties with his home country so he has no reason not to go back.

Somethint along those lines. Yes, looks like they don't! But we will get through it!

@ wiggsy

Hii - Yes it is me!

Thank you for that information. I'm quite sure we can get past control somewhere or another, main thing is getting the passport. I will keep in mind what you said.

I don't quite understand the zambrano thing.

[IntegratedMigrant]

@Jellybean105 you'll be alright. Few hurdles left to jump and it seems like you're ready for it.

After the discussion/interview they must give him his passport and probably may inform the Irish authorities of his plans. But at the end of the day, you'll make it to Ireland. Best of luck.

[EUsmileWEallsmile]

If you read through the directive, you will see that on leaving an EU state for another, all that is required is a passport (for EU / non-EU family members).

The UK would have no cause to retain non-EUs passport in these circumstances.

[Jellybean105]

Thank you EUsmileWEallsmile.

So today we went to see an agent (a friend of a friend) and I wanted to ask for some advice.

I have an option to go for this Ireland route or -

According to the agent, he said that my husband has not overstayed. The original visa was valid until July last year and he had lodged a new application in time. After that he appealed and again appealed which was refused. While the appeal was going on, we applied for the spouse visa and there was no time in between the appeal and the application to have 'overstayed'. While the application was made after a year from the original application, he clearly has not overstayed. If he had overstayed, they would not have given him a right of appeal for his previous visa.

In the letter he received it says:

"You submitted this application on 5th June 2013, more than 28 days after your leave of remain expired. To qualify for leave under D-LTRP 1.1 you must not be in the UK in breach of immigration laws (disregarding any period of overstaying for a period or 28 days or less). As you have overstayed by more than 28 days you fail to qualify for leave by virture of LTRP 2.2 of the Immigration rules. "

I know this might be asking in the wrong section so I appologise - if you can tell me where to start a new post I can do that.

I just want to know if there is any hope going ahead and challenging the decision and going for a hearing (I have already forked out thousands of pounds and a lot of effort on this route and wondering if I should see it through) - or go for the Ireland route?

[Jellybean105]

Hi guys

Just a quick update...
My husband called up the law enforcement office and they asked him what he wants to do so he said he wants to go to Ireland. The lady asked him whether he has a visa and he replies that my wife is exercising her EU treaty rights there. She said to come in on Monday 15th july to discuss his plans and they agreed to let me go as well.

On monday we went, and the guard at the door didn't let me go in. Anyway, so the lady inside asked him if he was the one who wanted to go Ireland and he showed her provisional ferry tickets. She said shell go check with authorities if hes allowed to go there. She came back saying she couldn't get through and then asked what I was doing in Ireland. He said That I have a business there etc so she was like oh okay thats fine then.

Then she said that book your tickets asap, by the 18th if July as that is 28 days from your ARE date. (I have no idea what that means - anyone know?).

But when we got home he called back and said that he cant wind up everything in 3 days so can he leave after 2-3 weeks. The lady said thats fine as long as you inform us what you are doing. He called up later and said he's booked the ferry tickets and asked whether he would be counted as an overstayer because he asked for a few extra weeks. The lady said that they call him for an interview nearer the time and the office will know if you have overstayed or not etc (not much help as it will then be too late!)

Overall, it was pretty positive and hopefully there won't be a problem.

[Jellybean105]

Another update!

My husband was called for an interview on Monday and he was asked to bring along an e-ticket. He went there and told the lady that he wanted to go Ireland (and not Sri Lanka as wrongly stated on the letter). She took the confirmation ticket of our ferry booking and went somewhere.

A few minutes later she returned with my husbands passport!!! Yaaaay
They did do something silly though, they werent given our other documents (most importantly our marriage certificate) from Home office so now he has to go back for them!

So finally, we will be leaving for Ireland soon! I had already applied for a visa for Ireland on 5th of July but so far theres no news on that. I hope he gets a reply before we leave otherwise I'll have all my Directive notes at hand at the border!