Citizenship via descent

[Shadesofgray]

Hello, everyone!

I'm sure this question has been asked on here before, and I apologize in advance if I am being redundant, but I am interested in gaining citizenship in Ireland, and I cam upon this rule: How I read it, I am entitled to citizenship is my grandparent was born and raised in Ireland, and I am her biological grandchild (even if my parent was "not" a citizen of Ireland?) Can any of you confirm this for me? Thank you so much for your help.

Citizenship through descent from Irish grandparents
If one of your grandparents is an Irish citizen but none of your parents was born in Ireland, you may become an Irish citizen. You will need to have your birth registered in the Foreign Births Register.
If you are entitled to register, your Irish citizenship is effective from the date of registration. The Irish citizenship of successive generations may be maintained in this way by each generation ensuring their registration in the Foreign Births Register before the birth of the next generation.
Since 1 July 1986, a person registered in the Foreign Births Entry Book after 1986 is deemed to be an Irish citizen only from the date of his/her entry in the Register and not from the date of birth. This means that children born to that person before his/her date of entry in the Register are not entitled to citizenship.
People registered before July 1986 are deemed Irish citizens either from the date the original Irish Nationality and Citizenship Act came into force, that is, 17 July 1956, or their date of birth, whichever is later. Only children born after 17 July 1956 can claim citizenship in such cases.

[IntegratedMigrant]

Based on the information you've given, you are entiltled to Irish Citizenship.

[barnaby]

I'm sure this question has been asked on here before, and I apologize in advance if I am being redundant, but I am interested in gaining citizenship in Ireland, and I cam upon this rule: How I read it, I am entitled to citizenship is my grandparent was born and raised in Ireland, and I am her biological grandchild (even if my parent was "not" a citizen of Ireland?) Can any of you confirm this for me?

It's bizarre but true. I did it this year. BTW, your parent is automatically deemed an Irish citizen (assuming he/she hasn't given it up).

[Shadesofgray]

The one part of the rule that confused me a little bit was whether or not my father (he passed away in 1995) would have to have registered, thus maintaining a succession of family citizenship? Barnaby, from your post, I gather that since my father would have automatically been a citizen without registration (because his mother, my grandmother, was born and raised in Ireland,) this does not apply. Since I am the grandchild of an Irish citizen, even though my father was born in Boston, USA, I am entitled to register, and to gain citizenship. Thank you!

[barnaby]

The one part of the rule that confused me a little bit was whether or not my father (he passed away in 1995) would have to have registered, thus maintaining a succession of family citizenship? Barnaby, from your post, I gather that since my father would have automatically been a citizen without registration (because his mother, my grandmother, was born and raised in Ireland,) this does not apply. Since I am the grandchild of an Irish citizen, even though my father was born in Boston, USA, I am entitled to register, and to gain citizenship. Thank you!

That's right: you're entitled to citizenship via your father who was an Irish citizen (but probably never realized)!

[Shadesofgray]

Thank you, Barnaby, for this information! It's very helpful to get this from someone who has "been there and done that"

[aloft1]

Deleted

[Shadesofgray]

Here is the website I used to find out some reliable info. It also contains a phone number you can call where you could get the detailed response you need for your particular situation. I hope it helps:
http://www.citizensinformation.ie/en/mo ... scent.html

[Brigid from Ireland]

Irish law does not permit discrimination against the children who were born outside of marriage. So if you have no marriage cert for your parents simply include a letter to say that they were never married. End of story, as your rights are based on being the child of your father, not on being the child of married parents.

Submit the amended birth cert (yours) and the birth cert of your Irish born father, showing that he was born in Ireland. End of story. Do not include any letter of explanation. Reason is that they may not notice that it is an amended birth cert, so you do not want to draw attention to this point by including a letter of explanation. If it is a problem for them they can write and ask you for a letter of explanation, in which case you can reply. But don't start a problem for yourself by drawing attention to it at the start of your application.

If they query it, then show the proof that your father was not born in America, explain that he was illegal in America so he gave a false birthplace on your birth cert (that would be the usual reason why he would have lied) and you got it amended. Get a letter from your aunt to say that he told her he was Irish - through a solicitor, so a sworn statement. Send these off and see what happens.

If they will still not accept, you have the option of coming to Ireland, to the town where your Irish father was born, finding him or his relatives and asking one of your relatives to do a DNA test as proof you are related. This worked for the child of an Irish soldier born in Africa (he died, so his brother gave DNA, clear relationship on the DNA, so she got her Irish passport - it was a long process).

[aloft1]

Deleted

[Shadesofgray]

Brigid sounds as if she knows what she is talking about. Give it a try. Also, an original birth certificate is a legal document, so while a letter of explanation may call attention to the issue, a quick note pointed out that notation on the birth certificate might help because it can point out exactly what you want them to see. Tough call. I wish you luck!

[EUsmileWEallsmile]

@OP, please continue here.

[barnaby]

For any of you who have gained "citizenship through descent" in Ireland, would my father's birth certificate stating my grandmother was born in Ireland be enough to register in order to become an Irish citizen? Do I need more than this? Other documents?

You also need your grandmother's birth certificate.

[Shadesofgray]

For any of you who have gained "citizenship through descent" in Ireland, would my father's birth certificate stating my grandmother was born in Ireland be enough to register in order to become an Irish citizen? Do I need more than this? Other documents?

You also need your grandmother's birth certificate.

Okay, thanks, Barnaby. I will do the necessary paperwork for my grandmother's certificate

[barnaby]

For any of you who have gained "citizenship through descent" in Ireland, would my father's birth certificate stating my grandmother was born in Ireland be enough to register in order to become an Irish citizen? Do I need more than this? Other documents?

You also need your grandmother's birth certificate.

Okay, thanks, Barnaby. I will do the necessary paperwork for my grandmother's certificate

While doing that, don't forget your grandmother's marriage certificate and death certificate! Plus similar documents for your parent and yourself. http://www.dfa.ie/home/index.aspx?id=88050

[Shadesofgray]

For any of you who have gained "citizenship through descent" in Ireland, would my father's birth certificate stating my grandmother was born in Ireland be enough to register in order to become an Irish citizen? Do I need more than this? Other documents?

You also need your grandmother's birth certificate.

Okay, thanks, Barnaby. I will do the necessary paperwork for my grandmother's certificate

While doing that, don't forget your grandmother's marriage certificate and death certificate! Plus similar documents for your parent and yourself. http://www.dfa.ie/home/index.aspx?id=88050

The marriage and death certificate should be easy. She was married in Boston and she died in Boston. My sister has a copy of my father's death certificate. Is a copy good enough, or do I need to send the original? In addition, I have my birth certificate, so this should be fine with connecting family lineage. My concern is this: On my father's birth certificate, I noticed that the spelling of my father's last name was recorded differently than how he spelled it in every day life. On his birth certificate, the conventional spelling of Carmichael was used instead of Carmickle (this is the spelling my family has always used--it is on my birth certificate.) My thought is that the information was given verbally to whomever recorded it (on my father's birth certificate, and he/she used the conventional spelling.) Records were much more loosely kept in days-gone-by. Now, since on my birth certificate the spelling is Carmickle, (both for me and my father) is the miss-spelling going to be questioned (e.g., are they going to question whether my father was really the same Carmichael/Carmickle)? I hope this makes sense--it's just a matter of a miss-spelling, but in current times, this could potentially be a problem (or so I fear). Thank you in advance!

[barnaby]

The marriage and death certificate should be easy. She was married in Boston and she died in Boston. My sister has a copy of my father's death certificate. Is a copy good enough, or do I need to send the original? In addition, I have my birth certificate, so this should be fine with connecting family lineage. My concern is this: On my father's birth certificate, I noticed that the spelling of my father's last name was recorded differently than how he spelled it in every day life. On his birth certificate, the conventional spelling of Carmichael was used instead of Carmickle (this is the spelling my family has always used--it is on my birth certificate.) My thought is that the information was given verbally to whomever recorded it (on my father's birth certificate, and he/she used the conventional spelling.) Records were much more loosely kept in days-gone-by. Now, since on my birth certificate the spelling is Carmickle, (both for me and my father) is the miss-spelling going to be questioned (e.g., are they going to question whether my father was really the same Carmichael/Carmickle)? I hope this makes sense--it's just a matter of a miss-spelling, but in current times, this could potentially be a problem (or so I fear). Thank you in advance!

1. They require original (i.e., not copies of) death certificates, etc.

2. I don't know whether the misspelling will be a problem, but presumably you will also be sending other documents with the correct spelling. E.g., your father's death certificate will show his correct (?) name and date of birth, so that should prove it's the same person.

I was also worried because my grandmother's date of birth was different on different documents (she "changed her age" on moving to England!), but it wasn't questioned.

[Shadesofgray]

The marriage and death certificate should be easy. She was married in Boston and she died in Boston. My sister has a copy of my father's death certificate. Is a copy good enough, or do I need to send the original? In addition, I have my birth certificate, so this should be fine with connecting family lineage. My concern is this: On my father's birth certificate, I noticed that the spelling of my father's last name was recorded differently than how he spelled it in every day life. On his birth certificate, the conventional spelling of Carmichael was used instead of Carmickle (this is the spelling my family has always used--it is on my birth certificate.) My thought is that the information was given verbally to whomever recorded it (on my father's birth certificate, and he/she used the conventional spelling.) Records were much more loosely kept in days-gone-by. Now, since on my birth certificate the spelling is Carmickle, (both for me and my father) is the miss-spelling going to be questioned (e.g., are they going to question whether my father was really the same Carmichael/Carmickle)? I hope this makes sense--it's just a matter of a miss-spelling, but in current times, this could potentially be a problem (or so I fear). Thank you in advance!

1. They require original (i.e., not copies of) death certificates, etc.

2. I don't know whether the misspelling will be a problem, but presumably you will also be sending other documents with the correct spelling. E.g., your father's death certificate will show his correct (?) name and date of birth, so that should prove it's the same person.

I was also worried because my grandmother's date of birth was different on different documents (she "changed her age" on moving to England!), but it wasn't questioned.

Thanks. Yes, his death certificate has his correct sir-name spelling on it. The birth date is the same--etc. . I think it will be okay, but I do have a phone number to call for more info (should I need it.) I appreciate all your help