EEA2 Refused. Make sure you have joint bank accounts if SS!

Londonguy79 · Post by **Londonguy79** » Fri Jul 19, 2013 9:07 pm

Hi,
So my EEA2 was denied today. I am Australian and my wife is from the Czech Republic. My wife doesn't work she looks after our baby daughter.
I applied for EEA2 through my wife with her exercising treaty rights as self sufficient.

Dates were:
Applied : Jan 14th 2013
COA : Feb 2nd 2013
Emailed HO as 6 month date had past : 12th July 2013
Emailed received from HO will be decided this week : 15th July 2013
Denied : 19th July 2013

My EEA2 was denied because we never bothered to get joint bank accounts! I feel very stupid that I didn't think to do this. I never had read on any forums this might be needed so I didn't think of it. Although in hindsight I can see why they would want this.

They said the following:

"Unfortunately in your application you have provided evidence that you are employed in the UK. Whilst providing bank statements to prove your own financial position, this does not accommodate the financial position of your EEA nation sponsor. For future applications this may be demonstrated by providing evidence that your EEA national spouse has full access to these funds and can therefore be considered self sufficent. This for example may be a joint bank account between yourself and the EEA National."

So now here come the questions!

1. I am currently working. Now that my application has been denied can I continue to work? It does not say anywhere if I can keep working either while I make a new application or submit an appeal.

2. We are going to the bank tomorrow to add my wifes name to my bank account. Should I just reapply for EEA2 on Monday? Or should I both appeal and reapply?

3. If I apply fresh my old application was at Liverpool now the new ones are at Duram. Do I have to wait another 6 months? Or maybe will they do it quicker because only thing thats missing is the joint bank account?

Do you only have the right to work if you appeal? It might take a few weeks for a new COA to come through so I am not sure if I can keep working until it comes?

Its a pity they do not tell you in the letter if your allowed to keep working or not.

They returned everything to me including my passport. I was on a Tier One when I applied for the EEA however it since expired in April 13. Strangely tho on the rejection letter they said the following:

"As you appear to have held alternative basis of stay in the UK at the time of the application you are not required to make arrangements to leave."

However then on the appeal form it says the following:

"As you appear to have no alternative basis of stay in the UK you should make arrangements to leave"

I am thinking the appeal form is a template and the other part where they say I do not have to leave is what counts?

Any thoughts would be very welcomed.

And anyone thinking of applying under Self-sufficient route where the non EEA person is the one working make sure you have joint bank accounts!!

Cheers,

Londonguy.

Post by **sheraz7** » Fri Jul 19, 2013 9:39 pm

In similar forum a lot of occasions I urged to Non-EU family members supporting their EEA partner with income to make them self sufficient. Regardless of income a non-EU family member unless its access to EU partner is not demonstrated the self sufficiency criteria does not fulfill. 2 options for that.
1. Open joint account. OR
2. Non-EU national regular transfer funds to Eu national individual account. Joint account is not necessary rather access of funds to EU national is important.

Londonguy79 · Post by **Londonguy79** » Fri Jul 19, 2013 9:48 pm

Hi sheraz,
Thank you for your reply.

Do you know the answers to any of my questions? Regarding if I can still work or not?

Cheers,

Londonguy.

Post by **sheraz7** » Fri Jul 19, 2013 9:54 pm

Yes you have right but employer will ask for some proof and if you apply again with correct documents then will receive COA again to meet employer requirement.

Londonguy79 · Post by **Londonguy79** » Fri Jul 19, 2013 10:07 pm

Hi Sheraz,
Thank you for your reply. Do you think I should bother appealing? Or just reapply?

Thank you for your help,

Londonguy.

Post by **sheraz7** » Fri Jul 19, 2013 10:17 pm

If you appeal then on what ground you can argue since the decision is correct. On the other hand since you now ready to open EEA national account which can meet this requirement then no harm in re-applying and getting new COA for work. If you want to travel then request back passport and come back visa freely since you are Australian.

poltrade · Post by **poltrade** » Fri Jul 19, 2013 11:19 pm

i got a question for you..you said that you were refused because you didnt have a joined account when you applied but did you have a private health insurance certificate?
as i understand it is needed to prove that you EEA wife if not working is covered by other that NHS services

thanks

Post by **Directive/2004/38/EC** » Sat Jul 20, 2013 3:10 am

I think you should definitely appeal. And an appeal is the only way to guarantee UKBA recognizes your right to work.

There is no requirement that you have a joint bank account. They can not just make this stuff up as they go.

You can imagine that even if an applicant had a joint bank account, they might threaten their partner and so prevent access to the money.

slough_Boy · Post by **slough_Boy** » Sat Jul 20, 2013 4:09 am

Londonguy79 wrote:Hi,
So my EEA2 was denied today. I am Australian and my wife is from the Czech Republic. My wife doesn't work she looks after our baby daughter.
I applied for EEA2 through my wife with her exercising treaty rights as self sufficient.

Dates were:
Applied : Jan 14th 2013
COA : Feb 2nd 2013
Emailed HO as 6 month date had past : 12th July 2013
Emailed received from HO will be decided this week : 15th July 2013
Denied : 19th July 2013

My EEA2 was denied because we never bothered to get joint bank accounts! I feel very stupid that I didn't think to do this. I never had read on any forums this might be needed so I didn't think of it. Although in hindsight I can see why they would want this.

They said the following:

"Unfortunately in your application you have provided evidence that you are employed in the UK. Whilst providing bank statements to prove your own financial position, this does not accommodate the financial position of your EEA nation sponsor. For future applications this may be demonstrated by providing evidence that your EEA national spouse has full access to these funds and can therefore be considered self sufficent. This for example may be a joint bank account between yourself and the EEA National."

So now here come the questions!

1. I am currently working. Now that my application has been denied can I continue to work? It does not say anywhere if I can keep working either while I make a new application or submit an appeal.

2. We are going to the bank tomorrow to add my wifes name to my bank account. Should I just reapply for EEA2 on Monday? Or should I both appeal and reapply?

3. If I apply fresh my old application was at Liverpool now the new ones are at Duram. Do I have to wait another 6 months? Or maybe will they do it quicker because only thing thats missing is the joint bank account?

Do you only have the right to work if you appeal? It might take a few weeks for a new COA to come through so I am not sure if I can keep working until it comes?

Its a pity they do not tell you in the letter if your allowed to keep working or not.

They returned everything to me including my passport. I was on a Tier One when I applied for the EEA however it since expired in April 13. Strangely tho on the rejection letter they said the following:

"As you appear to have held alternative basis of stay in the UK at the time of the application you are not required to make arrangements to leave."

However then on the appeal form it says the following:

"As you appear to have no alternative basis of stay in the UK you should make arrangements to leave"

I am thinking the appeal form is a template and the other part where they say I do not have to leave is what counts?

Any thoughts would be very welcomed.

And anyone thinking of applying under Self-sufficient route where the non EEA person is the one working make sure you have joint bank accounts!!

Cheers,

Londonguy.

Dates were:
Applied : Jan 14th 2013
COA : Feb 2nd 2013
Emailed HO as 6 month date had past : 12th July 2013
Emailed received from HO will be decided this week : 15th July 2013
Denied : 19th July 2013

Can you please tell us,

Which email address you sent email to remind HO 6 months have passed?

Londonguy79 · Post by **Londonguy79** » Sat Jul 20, 2013 7:31 am

Hello,
Thank you very much for your replies.

Yes we have private fully comp Bupa medical Insurance for myself, my wife and our baby daughter through the company I work for. So we were covered in that respect.

Directive - Thats what I was thinking. I think I need to appeal in order to keep working.

The question is should I appeal and also apply again with the joint bank accounts? Or just appeal?

Slough_boy - I emailed "Marje.Clarke@homeoffice.gsi.gov.uk" I got the email address off this board. She replied back within one day then I get the rejection at the end of the week.

Cheers,

Londonguy.

Post by **EUsmileWEallsmile** » Sat Jul 20, 2013 9:19 am

Londonguy79 wrote: My EEA2 was denied because we never bothered to get joint bank accounts! I feel very stupid that I didn't think to do this. I never had read on any forums this might be needed so I didn't think of it. Although in hindsight I can see why they would want this.

They said the following:

"Unfortunately in your application you have provided evidence that you are employed in the UK. Whilst providing bank statements to prove your own financial position, this does not accommodate the financial position of your EEA nation sponsor. For future applications this may be demonstrated by providing evidence that your EEA national spouse has full access to these funds and can therefore be considered self sufficent. This for example may be a joint bank account between yourself and the EEA National."

In my opinion this is utter nonsense. Self-sufficiency is a fact or it is not.

In the event of a divorce (just by way of analogy), one would find that all family income would get taken into account in any financial settlement. Not having joint accounts would not mean that the funds would be for one party's sole and private use. In Scotland, specifically, spouses have a legal duty to aliment each other, ie they cannot just let the other starve. I suspect there may be similar rules in other parts of the UK.

Londonguy79 · Post by **Londonguy79** » Sat Jul 20, 2013 9:51 am

Hi,
Yes its a little bit frustrating not being able to travel for 6 months then still get it denied because of something like this.

Now I will miss our family summer holiday as well.

Actually I would be interesting in opinions on this. I could appeal and send a new application then request my passport back and I might get it back in time before our holiday is booked. Because I am Australian I don't need a visa to get back into the UK so I could try to get back in as a tourist? However they could probably easily tell I live here with all my passport stamps. Plus I wouldn't have a return ticket to Australia. Do you think this would be risky to try to get back into the UK from a holiday?

Cheers,

Londonguy.

Post by **EUsmileWEallsmile** » Sat Jul 20, 2013 8:59 pm

Being a non-visa national certainly simplifies things.

Bear in mind that you are entitled to residence documentation provided that your wife is exercising treaty rights and of course she is.

Londonguy79 · Post by **Londonguy79** » Sat Jul 20, 2013 9:08 pm

Hi,
What exactly do you mean by "residence documentation" ?

Cheers,

Londonguy

Post by **EUsmileWEallsmile** » Sat Jul 20, 2013 9:10 pm

Londonguy79 wrote:Hi,
What exactly do you mean by "residence documentation" ?

Cheers,

Londonguy

A residence card. What I am saying is that from what you posted, your application cannot fail, whether you need to appeal or reapply.

Londonguy79 · Post by **Londonguy79** » Sat Jul 20, 2013 9:24 pm

Oh yes sorry I understand!

I guess the only problem is our holidays are booked for four weeks time.

I am guessing when I reapply I will have to wait another 6 months?

Post by **EUsmileWEallsmile** » Sat Jul 20, 2013 11:23 pm

Londonguy79 wrote:Oh yes sorry I understand!

I guess the only problem is our holidays are booked for four weeks time.

I am guessing when I reapply I will have to wait another 6 months?

:(

In theory yes, a fresh application up to six months' wait.

An appeal will work on an appeal timeline

A complaint, should work on a ... well it depends on how strongly you feel and on how, much a pain you wish to be. Evidence provided, guidance followed; case worker fails to ask for additional evidence (even if spuriously required), simply rejects...

Post by **Directive/2004/38/EC** » Sun Jul 21, 2013 1:38 am

I personally would think the best approach is to appeal. And keep your passport and go on holiday.

Is there any downside to this?

I would also strongly suggest you complain to the European Commission. If they do not know that this stuff is happening, they can do nothing about it.

Londonguy79 · Post by **Londonguy79** » Sun Jul 21, 2013 7:20 am

Hi,
Thanks very much for the replies!

If I appeal and keep my passport and go on holiday the only think I am not sure of is how do I get back into the UK?

They will ask how I am living here. My old tier one has expired. I cant exactly tell them to let me in as a tourist...

Londonguy

Post by **EUsmileWEallsmile** » Sun Jul 21, 2013 9:55 am

Londonguy79 wrote:Hi,
Thanks very much for the replies!

If I appeal and keep my passport and go on holiday the only think I am not sure of is how do I get back into the UK?

They will ask how I am living here. My old tier one has expired. I cant exactly tell them to let me in as a tourist...

Londonguy

It would be a personal decision as to whether you chose to travel or not. Some might be inclined to wait unit the appeal is resolved. I would certainly recommend waiting if you were a visa national.

At arrival at the border, you would simply state that your wife is exercising treaty rights and evidence that there and then if required.

Post by **Directive/2004/38/EC** » Sun Jul 21, 2013 11:58 am

Londonguy79 wrote: I emailed "M.Clarke" I got the email address off this board. She replied back within one day then I get the rejection at the end of the week. .

What is she relevant for? What did you email her about? What did she say?

Londonguy79 · Post by **Londonguy79** » Sun Jul 21, 2013 9:57 pm

Hi,
I emailed her because my EEA application had been outstanding longer than six months without hearing anything back. She replied back that she would get one of her team to look at it. Then I got the refusal back within a few days.

Its very annoying that most likely my application was just sitting there for 6 months then when you email to ask whats happening all of a sudden I get it back in like three days.

I should have emailed them earlier. But I thought id do the right thing and wait the six months.

I will call an immigration lawyer tomorrow and ask if I should both appeal and submit a new application at the same time like somebody else did on this forum board with success.

I don't go on holidays for 5 weeks so just maybe if I hassle them every week on my new application and include my old refusal letter stating all we needed was joint bank access they might do it quicker??

I think I am wishing there !!

I don't think I will risk travelling without the RC... I am not brave enough !

Londonguy.

Post by **EUsmileWEallsmile** » Sun Jul 21, 2013 10:33 pm

In order to obtain a residence card, all you need to do is provide evidence that your spouse is exercising treaty rights. I would have thought that the evidence supplied thus far was sufficient. I see no reason why you would need to wait another six months. Complain!

To keep your options open, I would suggest that you start the appeals process in parallel.

Londonguy79 · Post by **Londonguy79** » Sun Jul 21, 2013 10:47 pm

How do I complain though? To whom?

Yes I will definitely appeal as well...

Post by **EUsmileWEallsmile** » Sun Jul 21, 2013 10:50 pm

Londonguy79 wrote:How do I complain though? To whom?

Yes I will definitely appeal as well...

A complaints procedure is outlined on the form (it's not particularly comprehensive). The person you emailed previously appeared to respond reasonably quickly, perhaps pursue that.

Did you note the points I'd made about spouses having an obligation to support each other? It is simply ridiculous that an application is refused for lack of joint bank accounts.

Immigrationboards.com: Immigration, work visa and work permit discussion board

EEA2 Refused. Make sure you have joint bank accounts if SS!

EEA2 Refused. Make sure you have joint bank accounts if SS!

help plz

Re: EEA2 Refused. Make sure you have joint bank accounts if

Re: EEA2 Refused. Make sure you have joint bank accounts if