Guru is there any light end on this tunnel for this NON EU ?

[askmeplz82]

a guy i work asked me to help him but i even don't know what to say

here is his case

Living in the UK Legally : since 1997 ( student VISA )

Married an EU national : 2006

EU resident card : 2007 ( for five years )

2nd EU resident card : 2012 ( again for five years )

I feel sorry for this guy, He spend almost 16 years in the UK legally. Only been out of UK to see his family for 2 weeks

He didn't apply for ILR because it was expensive for him . instead he decided to apply EEA2 which was FREE.

in 2012 he applied for PR but it was refused because Wife wasn't working continuously . He was given right to appeal but he decided not to go for it because a solicitor was asking £2,000 ..

So, he applied for EEA2 again ( 2nd one ) and HOME office issued again for 5 years

Now what. He was asking can he apply under human right because he spend almost 16 years here

Can he apply under 20 years Rule if PR is not successful again

thanks

[sheraz7]

If he has got all the passports and documents proving its continuous 10 years legal residence then he must go for ILR with set(lr). After 10 years legal residence a person can apply ilr anytime.

[wiggsy]

a guy i work asked me to help him
.....

in 2012 he applied for PR but it was refused because Wife wasn't working continuously

Two things stand out from your post:

1) Your friend is working, has he been working continuiously?
2) the spouse was not working continuiously. I assume she survived using your friends funds, and was therefore self sufficient?

if this is the case: reapply for PR on the basis of a mixture of Self Sufficiency (from non-eu spouse income) and working for the wife.

Does the wife have PR?

Did she register as a job seeker during the time she was not employed?

After 10 years legal residence a person can apply ilr anytime.

The problem is, the home office is saying he didnt have legal residence for 10 years... as the wife wasnt excersising treaty rights. otherwise PR (EU ILR) would of been gained after five years...

Holding a RC does not mean your residence is legal. hence why you need to show documentary proof of legal residence and the HO can refuse to confirm your PR.

[sheraz7]

@wiggsy

For ilr under 10 years:
Given the illustration with dates as above only the period between 2006-2007 will need to be covered with eea national treaty rights evidences because the period backwards the op's friend had spent under his own independent rights from 1997-2006.

[wiggsy]

@wiggsy

Given the illustration with dates as above only the period between 2006-2007 will need to be covered with eea national treaty rights evidences because the period backwards the op's friend had spent under his own independent rights from 1997-2006.

Ahh, but ILR via the Immigration Rules costs money. PR is FREE (or £55 for confirmation since they have the illegal charges )

It is also noted by the Home Office that people cannot swap between EU and UK law as they please. (i'll find a link if you wish - although, the rules technically allow it...)

although, I do believe that the ENTIRE period from the start of the ten years until date of ILR application need to show CONTINUIOUS LAWFUL residence. (as in, if he didnt have a visa, and his residence was not valid under EU law, the 10 years would start again?

http://www.ukba.homeoffice.gov.uk/visas ... rmset(LR)/

However, you must apply before your current permission to remain in the UK ends.

[sheraz7]

@wiggsy

Given the illustration with dates as above only the period between 2006-2007 will need to be covered with eea national treaty rights evidences because the period backwards the op's friend had spent under his own independent rights from 1997-2006.

Ahh, but ILR via the Immigration Rules costs money. PR is FREE (or £55 for confirmation since they have the illegal charges )

It is also noted by the Home Office that people cannot swap between EU and UK law as they please. (i'll find a link if you wish - although, the rules technically allow it...)

although, I do believe that the ENTIRE period from the start of the ten years until date of ILR application need to show CONTINUIOUS LAWFUL residence. (as in, if he didnt have a visa, and his residence was not valid under EU law, the 10 years would start again?

http://www.ukba.homeoffice.gov.uk/visas ... rmset(LR)/

However, you must apply before your current permission to remain in the UK ends.

This page tells you how to consider a long residence application when a person has spent
time in the UK with a right to reside under the European Economic Area (EEA) regulations.
Time spent in the UK does not count as lawful residence under paragraph 276A of the
Immigration Rules for:
 third country nationals who have spent time in the UK as:
o the spouse, civil partner or other family member of an European Union (EU), or
o an EEA national exercising their treaty rights to live in the UK but have not qualified
for permanent residence
 former family members who have retained a right of residence.
During the time spent in the UK under the provisions of the EEA regulations, the individuals
are not subject to immigration control, and would not be required to have leave to enter or
leave to remain. For more information, see related link: 05 Residence card applications.
However, you must apply discretion and count time spent in the UK as lawful residence for
family members of EU or EEA nationals exercising their treaty rights to reside in the UK, if
they meet all the other requirements for long residence.
This does not affect the rights of family members of EEA nationals to permanent residence
in the UK, where they qualify for it under Regulation 15 of the Immigration (European
Economic Area) Regulations 2006. For more information, see related link: Immigration
(European Economic Area) Regulations 2006 – Regulation 15.[/b]

http://www.ukba.homeoffice.gov.uk/sitec ... iew=Binary

[wiggsy]

thats what im saying, your advice also states lawful residence.

Lawful residence is a required factor for ILR. and as I said previously. If the lawful residence is broken before application, the 10 years start again. the fact is.

The OP may have PR. Just they might not of submitted the correct documentation and explainations (Self Sufficient / Job Seeker ETC). It might be a case that the wife wasnt working for 1 year at the start of this year, so he qualifies next year for PR. the 5 years CAN span multiple RC's. (You dont need to start it at the beginning of the RC Issue...)

As long as the OP's friend/Wife didnt claim any benefits. and held sickness insurance (Or Even an EHIC Card) - (although the OP's friend would also require it). they could argue self sufficiency.

It might be worth further detail, to establish a proper timeline. IE:

Married in 2006. Wife worked until june 2007 when she gave birth. in oct she began self employment, but was registered as a job seeker looking for fultime work... ETC... more details of the EEA National would be helpful to give some accurate advice... The biggest question for ILR or PR: Was the EEA National excersising treaty rights (and therefore was your residence under EU Law legal)

[sheraz7]

@wiggsy

For ilr under 10 years:
Given the illustration with dates as above only the period between 2006-2007 will need to be covered with eea national treaty rights evidences because the period backwards the op's friend had spent under his own independent rights from 1997-2006.

[wiggsy]

@wiggsy

For ilr under 10 years:
Given the illustration with dates as above only the period between 2006-2007 will need to be covered with eea national treaty rights evidences because the period backwards the op's friend had spent under his own independent rights from 1997-2006.

I really don't understand why what I have directed you to above is so hard to understand... IF the OP's friend has no leave to remain at the point of application / during the 10 years... then HE DOES NOT QUALIFY. See the HO / UKBA Website....

Also, which is better:

1) Paying hundreds of pounds for a failed application - with no right of appeal
2) Paying £55 for a sucessful application. (or even a failed application with a right of appeal)

[sheraz7]

@wiggsy

For ilr under 10 years:
Given the illustration with dates as above only the period between 2006-2007 will need to be covered with eea national treaty rights evidences because the period backwards the op's friend had spent under his own independent rights from 1997-2006.

I really don't understand why what I have directed you to above is so hard to understand... IF the OP's friend has no leave to remain at the point of application / during the 10 years... then HE DOES NOT QUALIFY. See the HO / UKBA Website....

Also, which is better:

1) Paying hundreds of pounds for a failed application - with no right of appeal
2) Paying £55 for a sucessful application. (or even a failed application with a right of appeal)

How did you know that OP was not having valid leave? Since he has mentioned in 1st post that he has been living legally since 1997.

[wiggsy]

How did you know that OP was not having valid leave? Since he has mentioned in 1st post that he has been living legally since 1997.

How do you know the OP's FRIEND AT WORK (not OP) Does have valid leave...?

Let's not argue about this, the fact of law is clear. It is down to the applicant to demonstrate that they have legal residence at the time of application and during the 10 years residence, ALL THE WAY THROUGH to the time of application.

If the person does not have PR (legal residence is 5 years) how can you argue that they will meet the requirement of 10 years legal residence. Lets talk sensibly here. The home office refuse to accept he has lived here legally for five years. How can you expect them to accept he has lived here legally for 10 years?

[sheraz7]

How did you know that OP was not having valid leave? Since he has mentioned in 1st post that he has been living legally since 1997.

How do you know the OP's FRIEND AT WORK (not OP) Does have valid leave...?

Let's not argue about this, the fact of law is clear. It is down to the applicant to demonstrate that they have legal residence at the time of application and during the 10 years residence, ALL THE WAY THROUGH to the time of application.

If the person does not have PR (legal residence is 5 years) how can you argue that they will meet the requirement of 10 years legal residence. Lets talk sensibly here. The home office refuse to accept he has lived here legally for five years. How can you expect them to accept he has lived here legally for 10 years?

Let me summarized and finalize this post. In above illustration (if its being described correct) for ILR reasons the op will only need to show lesser period of its EEA national partner activities in contrary to PR for which the evidences relating to 5 years of the treaty rights of eea partner are needed. Therefore, in this situation op has spent time much under his own rights from 1997-2006 and he only need to be covered from 2006 regardless whether he got visa or not after marrying with eea national because under eea regulation visa is not essential rather the relationship+eea national treaty rights evidence needed.
ILR ON THE BASIS OF LONG RESIDENCE CAN BE A MIXTURE OF DIFFERENT VISA STATUS AS LONG AS THE RELEVANT CRITERIA FOR THE RELEVANT CAPACITY/CATEGORY HAS CONSTANTLY BEEN MET DURING THIS TIME.

[wiggsy]

Let me summarized and finalize this post. In above illustration (if its being described correct) for ILR reasons the op will only need to show lesser period of its EEA national partner activities in contrary to PR for which the evidences relating to 5 years of the treaty rights of eea partner are needed. Therefore, in this situation op has spent time much under his own rights from 1997-2006 and he only need to be covered from 2006 regardless whether he got visa or not because under eea regulation visa is not essential rather the relationship+eea national treaty rights evidence needed.
ILR ON THE BASIS OF LONG RESIDENCE CAN BE A MIXTURE OF DIFFERENT VISA STATUS AS LONG AS THE RELEVANT CRITERIA FOR THE RELEVANT CAPACITY/CATEGORY HAS CONSTANTLY BEEN MET DURING THIS TIME.

Sheraz, you are missing the main point of what I am saying: According to the Home Office the applicants residence is/was not legal under the EEA REGS. Therefore his continuious lawful residence has been broken. It is the applicants requirement to show the fact that this is not the case.

The lawful residence does not need showing from 97 until 2007. The residence needs showing for ten years prior to the date of application at which point:
the applicant requires a legal right of residence.
the applicant must of lived in the uk legally continiously for at least 10 years (or the 10 years must complete no later than 28 days before the date of application).

To clarify this also, it might be useful for the applicants refusal notice wording to be posting, highlighting why the PR failed...

[sheraz7]

The time spent under eea regulations is counted towards 10 years long residence. Did you really read my last underlined quote which i taken from the chapter called long residence and private life 2013 version. Its link i have provided too and can you refer its chapter called time spent as eea national family member.

[wiggsy]

The time spent under eea regulations is counted towards 10 years long residence. Did you really read my last underlined quote which i taken from the chapter called long residence and private life 2013 version. Its link i have provided too and can you refer its chapter called time spent as eea national family member.

Im not going to keep going over this same point over and over.

I AGREE THAT TIME SPENT CAN BE MIXED. THE RULES ALLOW IT.

What I am stating is: The HOME OFFICE HAVE STATED: The Applicant's residency in the uk is not in accordance with the EEA Regulations. Therefore legal residence is broken.

[sheraz7]

He has been refused for PR which need 5 years of eea national treaty evidences but he has still been getting EEA2 even second time. Therefore if op proved only 1 year (2006-2007) then he will be fine.
Thanks for at least understanding that ILR can be applied on mixture of visas including EEA route.

[wiggsy]

He has been refused for PR which need 5 years of eea national treaty evidences but he has still been getting EEA2 even second time. Therefore if op proved only 1 year (2006-2007) then he will be fine.
Thanks for at least understanding that ILR can be applied on mixture of visas including EEA route.

[UKBA HUNTER]

I am reading this post since 2 days silently including the incompetent google search from Wiggsy who already wasted moderators time too in many places with his incompetent google search. I think his internet surfing device need upgrade. Honestly on my old phone many file format me too cannot read same like you.
But i totally agree with guru after reading chapter.

[wiggsy]

I am reading this post since 2 days silently including the incompetent google search from Wiggsy who already wasted moderators time too in many places with his incompetent google search. I think his internet surfing device need upgrade. Honestly on my old phone many file format me too cannot read same like you.
But i totally agree with guru after reading chapter.

Google Search> Hmm, I posted a link directly to the relevant visa requirement: Copy it to your browser address bar (the home office use brackets and therefore linsk break on the forum)

http://www.ukba.homeoffice.gov.uk/visas ... rmset(LR)/

The information on this page is regarding SET(LR).

you can even read the guidance notes here (linked on the page above) http://www.ukba.homeoffice.gov.uk/sitec ... uidelr.pdf


- http://www.ukba.homeoffice.gov.uk/polic ... les/part9/

[askmeplz82]

He has been refused for PR which need 5 years of eea national treaty evidences but he has still been getting EEA2 even second time. Therefore if op proved only 1 year (2006-2007) then he will be fine.
Thanks for at least understanding that ILR can be applied on mixture of visas including EEA route.

thanks guys....


Yes my friend was a student studying . His student permit renewed 4 times in total. Never had any issue. he had valid student permit until 2007 . The biggest mistake he made was to switch to EU route even when he had more then one year valid leave to remain as student. If he didn't then he could apply for ILR under 10 years on his own right

The main reason he switched to EEA2 was because he can work FULL TIME and as a student he could only work part time

My friend wife is a french national. She worked since arriving in the UK continuously for 17 months ( january 2006 - May 2007 ) then started self employment as a cleaner for almost one year

Home office refused her application for PR because of this self employed. she paid NI contribution only but no TAX because it was only 14 hours per week and under £100

She was working for a Russian billionaire but they no longer living in the UK so she couldn't get any letter from them later. Home office wanted to see receipt, letters, invoice, adverts so on. She didn't have anything like that. Only NI contribution.

That was the main reason Home office rejected her PR application. She was given right of appeal but they decided not to go for it because of a Lawyer asked £2,000 for it

I will advice my friend his problem solved. All he need to do now is just to collect his wife 12 months payslip and his 9 years bank statement

He never been outside UK during those 9 years. Only once with his wife after marriage to introduce her to his family and it was for 2 weeks only

[wiggsy]

before wasting a grand, it'ld be wise for him to get a solicitor to confirm his rights. (better loose £100 solicitor fee than the application fee)

http://www.ukba.homeoffice.gov.uk/polic ... les/part9/