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Becoming a Stateless person?

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Shadowpost
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Becoming a Stateless person?

Post by Shadowpost » Fri Sep 20, 2013 1:38 am

Here is a question i hope you can answer.

I may one day hope to make a sovereign claim to some Terra Nullius. In order to do this i must become stateless. I am British through ancestry, birth and residence.

I note that i could renounce British citizenship if i have citizenship for another country. If i was to gain dual nationality, renounce British Citizenship, then later on renounce the other remaining nationality, would i become Stateless or would i automatically be rendered a British Citizen again?

If the latter, is there any way i can become voluntarily stateless?

ouflak1
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Re: Becoming a Stateless person?

Post by ouflak1 » Mon Sep 23, 2013 4:29 pm

Shadowpost wrote:Here is a question i hope you can answer.

I may one day hope to make a sovereign claim to some Terra Nullius. In order to do this i must become stateless.
I'm not sure this is true. Are you referencing any particular international treaties with regards to that assumption?
Shadowpost wrote: I am British through ancestry, birth and residence.

I note that i could renounce British citizenship if i have citizenship for another country. If i was to gain dual nationality, renounce British Citizenship, then later on renounce the other remaining nationality, would i become Stateless or would i automatically be rendered a British Citizen again?
No you would be stateless at that point, but there are only a few countries that allow you to renounce your citizenship without having another in tangent. The United States and Nigeria are the only two I could find from a brief internet search. I suspect Japan as well, but that will take some digging.

Pretty much every other country in the world has by default rules against citizens losing that citizenship and becoming stateless. But the point may be moot anyway as I really don't think you need to be stateless to make a sovereign claim over Terra Nullius.

Shadowpost
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Post by Shadowpost » Mon Sep 23, 2013 7:32 pm

Not referencing a treaty directly. I found the information in an un-sourced statement on the wikipedia article for Terra Nullius.

Not ideal but I figured that if i was not stateless, then i would still be a British subject and under the rule of Her majesty. Thus i could not be a sovereign, as i would be a subject.

Given that if not stateless, i would be a British subject, then surely any claim i make to Terra Nullius would automatically become a claim in the name of the Queen?

ouflak1
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Post by ouflak1 » Tue Sep 24, 2013 9:38 am

Shadowpost wrote:Not referencing a treaty directly. I found the information in an un-sourced statement on the wikipedia article for Terra Nullius.
That point you referred to is with respect to the seas and oceans, and outer space (and I suppose technically, deep underground). And it only refers to who may claim sovereignty as an individual when not specifically in a sovereign land or claimed patch of water.
Shadowpost wrote:Not ideal but I figured that if i was not stateless, then i would still be a British subject and under the rule of Her majesty. Thus i could not be a sovereign, as i would be a subject.

Given that if not stateless, i would be a British subject, then surely any claim i make to Terra Nullius would automatically become a claim in the name of the Queen?
After the British Nationality Act of 1981 (into force in 1983), no person is a British Subject except for those people formerly known as British subjects without any citizenship and people born in Ireland before 1949.

As far as I'm aware, there are no international agreements that state that a person cannot be a head of state of one country (even their own freshly staked one) even if they have citizenship of another country. Naturally for some countries, that will pretty much automatically cost you that original citizenship. But that is really a nation by nation thing.

If you went and staked a claim over a patch of Terra Nullius, it's just a matter of recognition, not original citizenship.

ukswus
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Post by ukswus » Tue Sep 24, 2013 1:23 pm

Shadowpost wrote:Not referencing a treaty directly. I found the information in an un-sourced statement on the wikipedia article for Terra Nullius.
No offence, but going to all the effort and expense of acquiring and losing another country's citizenship with a view to making a "sovereign claim" over some uninhabited remote land, just based on unreferenced Wikipedia article, sounds like the person wanting to do that is crazy.

Shadowpost
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Post by Shadowpost » Tue Sep 24, 2013 4:19 pm

I'm just initially testing the theoretical feasibility. I'd only ever claim the land if i got proper legal advice, raised a fair amount of money, had already drafted the foundation and sustainability plans of my nation and had an action plan in place for international recognition.

smalldog
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Ireland

Post by smalldog » Sat Sep 28, 2013 4:46 pm

Being British didn't stop James Brooke founding the Kingdom of Sarawak.

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