Naturalisation Joint Application - TWO Different Decisions??

[westgigo]

ih

[Jambo]

Are you married? Have you been married for the past 6 years?

If yes, then your wife can base her stay in the UK on your activities (I assume you don't have gaps in employment).

There isn't such a thing as joint application. Each application is considered separately. There is a reduced joint fee if applying together.

[westgigo]

ih

[westgigo]

I

[Jambo]

I assume you don't hold a PR Confirmation following EEA3 application. This is not mandatory to have but will make the application simpler.

Also - If you are from A8 country (one of the new joiners in 2004), did you register with WRS when you started employment? Did you work for at least 12 months after registration?

As EEA nationals, you need to hold PR for 1 year before applying for naturalisation. PR can also be obtained if your spouse has been exercised treaty rights for 5 years so your activities will grant yourself and your wife PR regardless of what she did.

You can apply together. In form AN, in section 2.4-2.6 she should tick "a family member of EEA national" and provide details (and evidence) of your activities.

[westgigo]

ih

[westgigo]

If

[westgigo]

ih

[Jambo]

The permanent residence certificate (blue card) was issued Aug 2007 for both myself and my wife. We are from the A2 countries joined the EU in 2007.

The blue card is not a permanent residence certificate (this is only obtained after 5 years) but a Registration Certificate for EEA nationals exercising treaty rights in the UK.

In her application if she ticks only "a family member of EEA national" in section 2.4-2.6, she does not have to provide any evidence for study or employment at all. If that is the case in the residency period section are only last 3 years required to be provided if the application is on the grounds of a family member?

If she is a family member of EEA nationals, her activities don't matter. She will obtain PR based on your activities.
She is not applying based on 3 years rule. This is for spouse of British citizens. You are not British (yet). She is applying the same way that you apply (i.e. after 6 years = 5 years EEA treaty rights + 1 year after). The only difference is that her PR (under EEA regulations) is based on your activities.

[Jambo]

In form AN, in section 2.4-2.6 she should tick "a family member of EEA national" and provide details (and evidence) of your activities.

I would really appreciate if you can share where is this particular information (in the quote) so I would be able to read it with any additional explanations.

Thank you.

It is not explicitly stated in the form or the guide but I will explain the logic.

That section is intended to determine if the applicant has obtained PR status under the EEA Regulations (as having PR Card is optional). It's basically a mini EEA3/4 application.
Under EEA Regulations, an EEA national obtains PR status automatically after 5 years of exercising treaty rights. The same applies to his family members (spouse, children) even if they are EEA nationals themselves (see form EEA3 for example). All the family will obtain PR if resident in the UK for 5 years while the "main" applicant exercised treaty rights.

Taking this from a different angle - if your spouse was a non EEA national, then ticking "family member" and providing evidence of the EEA national (your) activities is what the form asks for. So why would it be different if your spouse is EEA national. It can't be that by being EEA national she is required to meet requirements a non EEA national doesn't.

[westgigo]

Thank

[westgigo]

ih

[Jambo]

I suggest you read Q1 & Q5 in Citizenship FAQs - Common Questions - Read before posting.

You don't need to hold PR Card but you need to have PR status. Your application will be reviewed as two stage application - first examine the evidence to show you have obtained PR (5 years treaty rights) and then check you have met the requirements for naturalisation (including that the 5 years period of treaty rights i.e the PR date is at least 1 year before the application).

The extra stage will not slow your application. Your wife can apply the same way you do (no PR card based on your activity). She will only need to provide evidence of residence in the UK for the 6 years (normally a passport is enough. Sometimes additional evidence such as official letters are required).

I suggest you use NCS who will go over the application, photocopy your documents and return them to you.

[westgigo]

ih

[westgigo]

.ih

[Jambo]

The reason given is because under "family member" definition is specified a non-EU family member only.

Where exactly this is defined as such? It doesn't say "non-EEA family member" only "family member".

Honestly, I would not trust the HO call centre advice. They have misled people in the past. You might find that if you call again, they will give you a different answer.

In any case, even if she ticks the "EEA national" box, she can still base her application on your activities. It doesn't need to be based on her. Otherwise, it would mean that wives of EEA national who do not work are not eligible to apply for naturalisation. Does that sound logical to you? Did you ask the HO over the phone if she can (as EEA national) apply based on your treaty rights activities and not to provide any evidence of her activities?

[westgigo]

ih

[Jambo]

I don't know whether to laugh or cry. The incompetence of the call centre staff is appalling. They are wrong. Period. Luckily the caseworkers who actually examine the applications (they are not the ones answering the phone) know their stuff.

But I don't want you to take my word for it. You may want to contact the European Cases Policy Team in UKBA. They are in charge of EEA regulations not naturalisation but can advice you on the PR side of things.
I'm guessing they have been involved in the writing of the 2.4-2.6 section of the form (it's a recent addition from 1-2 years ago).

Their email address is EuropeanOperational@homeoffice.gsi.gov.uk
Make sure you construct your query as a general policy one as they can't comment on individual cases. Also make sure the situation is explained clearly and the questions asked are to the point. Generic questions would get generic answers.

You can also try the nationality enquiries email ukbanationalityenquiries@ukba.gsi.gov.uk although if this is staffed with the same people answering the phone, you won't get far.

[sobol]

First all, I wanted say Hi as this is my first post in this forum and thank everyone for the knowledge they've shared here.

I've been reading this topic and it seems that westgigo situation is quite similar to mine.

Although mine differs where me and my partner are in relationship for 13 years but not married or in civil partnership. We're both from A8 country.

I've been WRS registered since April 2006. Myself and and my girlfriend got residence document ( blue card ) in June 2008 and her's was issued based on my activities here.

Can she apply for Citizenship with me based on the fact that she has been here with me and I have been in full time employment for 7 years?

[Jambo]

Hey all,

First all, I wanted say Hi as this is my first post in this forum and thank for all the knowledge shared here.

I've been reading this topic and it seems that westgigo situation is quite similar to mine.

Although mine differs where me and my partner are in relationship for 13 years but not married or in civil partnership.

I've been WRS registered since early 2007. Myself and and my girlfriend got residence document ( blue card ) from June 2008 and her's was issued based on my activities here. Can she now apply for Citizenship with me based on the fact that she has been here with me and I have been in full time employment for 7 years?

It's better to open a new thread and not hijack someone else.

For unmarried partners, time under EEA regulations starts when a residence document is issued. If June 2008 was the first document under EEA regulations, then her clock for PR starts then, so she has obtained (automatically) PR in June 2013 (after 5 years of residence and assuming you have been exercising treaty rights for 5 years). She can apply for naturalisation 1 year after PR date - June 2014.

See also - Q1, Q5 & Q6 in Citizenship FAQs - Common Questions - Read before posting.

[westgigo]

ih

[westgigo]

ih

[westgigo]

ih

[Jambo]

Can my wife apply as an EEA national for naturalisation under my activities?

Yes.

That what I said from the beginning. Whether she ticks one box or the other in the form, it doesn't really matter. One member in the family who exercise treaty rights for 5 years is enough to gain PR for all the family (assuming they lived in the UK for those 5 years).

For naturalisation, you just need to have PR status for 1 year. Which route you used to obtain it is irrelevant to the naturalisation application. You just need to show you have PR for 1 year (by provided your employment as evidence).

[Jambo]

Please confirm any documents required and if any additional documents are necessary/preferably.

Myself:
- Application form
- Passport/UK driving licence
- Life in the UK test
- P60 and letter of the employer (confirming worker status)
- Bank statements and annual council tax letters (for confirmation of the address/residence)

My wife:
- Application form
- Passport
- Life in the UK test
- Bank statements and annual council tax letters (for confirmation of the address/residence)

Any other documents required because I am prepared to take the risk and apply.

This is fine. You are just missing the marriage certificate.

I presume you used the driving licence for the LIUK test (otherwise not required).
Bank statements / annual council tax are fine. Don't make it a big pile. No need for 60 bank statements (for each month). A selection would be enough.

Just make sure you have been physically in the UK in the period you apply 5 years back so if you apply tomorrow, make sure you have been in the UK at the end of September 2008. This is a requirement that if you miss, the application fails.

Use NCS, it a good value for money + you keep all your documents. If they give you hard time, ask them to call the HO. They have direct access to the caseworkers (not the ones answering the enquiry line).