MN1 - GP and School declined to provide reference!

[a-s]

Hi,

My husband and I, along with two children, are applying for our naturalisation via the Form-AN.

I have tried getting a reference from both the school and the gp however both have declined without any reasons. They just say that its against their policy.

We've never known a health visitor, a social worker or a minister of religion.

Any bright ideas please?

We will get the other references from a friend or neighbour so that's not an issue.

Thanks

[Jambo]

See the relevant question in Citizenship FAQs - Common Questions - Read before posting - children.

[a-s]

See the relevant question in Citizenship FAQs - Common Questions - Read before posting - children.

Thanks, our kids are both 10 year old (twins) and were born outside the UK (we immigrated to UK under HSMP when they were 3).

The link you have provided does not give specific information about the referee issue for children born outside the UK. I found the following but it refers to children born in the UK:

Q1: I can’t find a professional referee to support my child application. What should I do?

Try the GP or health visitor.

If applying under section 1(3) (child born in the UK), and you can't find a referee who knows the child in a professional capacity, just get any professional to sign. The HO are less strict on the referees especially if the child is young.


Can we also have any professional to sign the form?

Regards

[chuba2012]

My understanding is that references for children is all about identity and confirmation that the child actually exists and is in the UK. And unlike adult references the referees do not have to give their passport number. They only need to provide an official contact address. May be if you let the school know this it might make it easier.

There is an official guidance document which outlines this. May be this will help.


http://www.ukba.homeoffice.gov.uk/sitec ... iew=Binary

6.3.7.9 Those acting in a professional capacity may not wish to provide their personal details. In such cases, we would be content for the person acting as a referee to put his or her business contact details. In addition, if the person does not wish their passport details to be seen by the person applying for citizenship, they can omit this from the form, entering “details available on request”.

6.3.7.10 This allows us to ensure that the privacy of the individual is protected, whilst still being able to satisfy ourselves of the child‟s presence in the United Kingdom.

[neoseal]

We had all our references put "details available on request". Got approval. Just explain that to the school and ask to put school address and contact details. That should suffice the requirement.

[vinny]

Did you ask the school or specific teachers at the school?

[a-s]

Hi all,

Thanks a lot for the helpful replies.

We requested the head teacher for reference as we thought teachers wouldn't sign. The first attempt was refused and the school reception called me to confirm this.

My husband and I then wrote a letter to the head teacher explaining how we need a professional reference which cannot be a solicitor and how they only need to confirm the details on page 3 of the MN1 form most of which they already have in their school record (i.e. name, address etc.). We attached copies of kids passports and ILR's (verified by solicitors). We mentioned the 'detail upon request' option for passport detail.

However we also said that if the school still refuses to provide reference they should give their response in writing so we can send it to the Home office confirming that we have tried our best to explain the situation.

This morning I was told over the phone that head teacher's written response is ready for me to collect, which simply means they have declined the request once again!

I will now take the advice shared over here to the gp and see if they can help at all.

I guess if nothing else works I will take written responses from the gp and school to our MP and request for a reference? Do you think this should suffice?

Thanks and regards.

[vinny]

Ask the child's former class teacher, someone who has known the child for the required years.

[JAJ]

While one accepts that a head-teacher shouldn't be obliged to provide a reference (which isn't a character reference, but more a verification of details), it seems quite inappropriate that a teacher would care so little about the welfare of one of his or her pupils.

Same goes for a GP, really.

If there is a concern about the specific wording they could always strike out something on the form, or give the reference in a supplemental letter.

If all the "professionals" in the child's life are not concerned enough to be willing to provide a reference, then I would recommend omitting it and explaining in a letter to the Home Office. You may wish to include copies of documents showing the child's attendance at school, etc.

I think it's highly unlikely that the MN1 application would be refused if this was done.

[a-s]

Hello all,

Just wanted to share the update with everyone.

The school did decline again and in writing this time. The reason was that teachers wouldn’t want to give their passport details.

I didn’t argue on the above because in the meantime I’d also emailed the gp requesting for a written confirmation. In response to this I received a call from the Practice Manager who sounded sensible so I explained the whole situation in detail then also emailed her the MN1 form as well as the document provided at the link shared by chuba2012. I explained how this is only to confirm that the child exists and that "available on request" is okay in the passport number section. Eventually the Practice Manager advised me to bring the original forms in along with both kids so they can check if the photos are of ‘true likeness’.

So the following days I picked up both kids from the school and went to the surgery again and surprisingly, the attitude of the staff was stiff once again until I specifically mentioned that the Practice Manager has arranged this appointment. After this the atmosphere suddenly changed and after a 30min wait a very scared looking doctor agreed to approve the forms. I wasn’t charged for this and haven’t received a bill yet either.

All in all I think it’s a lack of awareness issue compounded by the Home Office conditions. Their form mentions scary things like 3 month imprisonment and £5000 fine and then people are expected to give out their personal details. However clauses 6.3.7.9 and 6.3.7.10 are not stated on the form or in the guidance.

My suggestion to anyone in similar situation would be to book an appointment with the GP and/or school instead of dropping off the documents as its not as simple as this. Try meeting people in person and take the relevant documentation along and try to put them at ease by explaining the purpose of the reference and what the Home Office is asking for.

Thank you all once again for your support. This forum has been immensely helpful for us over the years.

Regards