british citizenship and 9 points on driving licence

[gravesender]

Hi all , I can apply for citizenship in march 2014 , i have 6 points for minor speeding (both sp30 code) both from december 2012, i received yesterday another one , doing 68 in 60 ( 1 mile less and i wouldnt get it) , now then i think i wanna challenge it in court, worst case scenario is another 3 points , will 9 points ruin it for me? also will ther be a difference if i plea gulity and get 3 points without court ? or should i try challange it in court? coz i wont get more than 3 points anyway? thanks for any replies

[gravesender]

A FPN (often given for minor motoring offences such as speeding) is not a conviction and will not be grounds for refusal unless the applicant has received numerous FPNs in the last 12 months. Therefore, you should wait until you have no more one FPN in the last 12 months before applying.

If you go to court for a FPN because you do not pay the fine or you challenge the FPN and the FPN is upheld (found guilty) this will then be classed as a conviction and may lead to (at a minimum) a refusal for 3 years.

Does it mean if i plea gulity and take 3 points without going to court i'll be allright but if i decide to go to the court and they will find me guilty and give me 3 points i will have to wait 3 years???

[akhurshid]

You should stick to speed limit mate. How sooner did doing 68 mph get you to your destination?
Anyway, Only challenge it if you weren't over speeding and you can prove it else your FPN will turn into a non-custodial conviction which means 3 years ban.

[Amber]

You have highlighted the relevant text, if you challenge the FPN and lose you'll end up with a criminal conviction and thus a 3 year bar. Before you decide it's perhaps wise to see a criminal solicitor with expertise in traffic offences.

[gravesender]

the only reason i was thinking about it was because i could've lost my job, but i won't , and i still can apply for naturalization , so no problems , i'll be extra extra carefull from now on, driving like my granma

[gravesender]

lawers charge 120 + vat for advice only and then around 400 for representation in court ,thats a bit too much for me

[elthamman]

A FPN (often given for minor motoring offences such as speeding) is not a conviction and will not be grounds for refusal unless the applicant has received numerous FPNs in the last 12 months. Therefore, you should wait until you have no more one FPN in the last 12 months before applying.

If you go to court for a FPN because you do not pay the fine or you challenge the FPN and the FPN is upheld (found guilty) this will then be classed as a conviction and may lead to (at a minimum) a refusal for 3 years.

Does it mean if i plea gulity and take 3 points without going to court i'll be allright but if i decide to go to the court and they will find me guilty and give me 3 points i will have to wait 3 years???

i have the same problem , i read in a booklet today that if you have numerous convictions then it's not good , doesnt say anything about last 12 months , have the rules changed???

[Smam]

Hi,

I've got a pretty similar case I never ever challened my FPN, I've pleaded guilty and just requested for a special reasons hearing which I lost in October and ended up getting 6 points on my license.

The special reasons I requested from the Magisterate to heard is regarding a missleading insurance policy which never ever mentioned that I am not allowed to drive any other car but on the day of my appeal I've paid nearly £1000 of my hard earned blood shed money to a stupid idiot lawyer so called her self a barrister and she didn't said a work and offcourse I was so patrified already and failed to explained my self the Magisterate said I didn't find your special reasons hearing very useful and he said to me that I've pleaded guilty already that's all he just ordered me to pay the court fees and my fine has gone up from £200 to £500 I've lost that £1000 on that stupid lawyer as well and the biggest thing is that I wont be able to apply for my BC for 5 years.

I've always kept my record immaculate in my life and these points looks like to me that my life is end I feel so disturbed that I wont be able to apply for my Naturalisation for 5 years it just make me cry every day.

But this looks just so unfair that for this small reason I've to be punished for 5 years which is not even my mistake don't know if I can apply now and mention all these things on my BC application form and beg the case worker if the case worker can use the discretion and grant my BC.

Many thanks and waiting for your replies.

Good luck to every one who are applying for their BC.

[navalaviator]

Well to be honest your FPN turned conviction seems like the film called Mr. Bean in which he sneezes on to a painting accidently and then to make it clean back again he wipes it with a tissue and thinner and for few seconds it looks really nice and stunnimg like before sneeze matter on it but within seconds it changes into a mess and eventually he ends up with a completely disfigured and distorted image and then he finally draws the million pound picture with a pen in an effort to make it look like in its original form but it looks like a 3 year olds drawing.

Strictly no joke intended at all but it does look like the above scenario.


In your case you have almost done the same thing when you were told not to go to the court but in an effort to get rid of FPN you have now got a conviction.

Sorry but someone wise and educated like you is not suppose to deal such matters of paramount importance in such a stupid way of taking them to the court despite of being told here by the ecperts NOT to at all.

[Amber]

Smam, you'll have to wait 3 not 5 years, possibly 2 if you show good reason. Don't know where you got the legal advice, but I wouldn't go back again.

[Smam]

Well to be honest your FPN turned conviction seems like the film called Mr. Bean in which he sneezes on to a painting accidently and then to make it clean back again he wipes it with a tissue and thinner and for few seconds it looks really nice and stunnimg like before sneeze matter on it but within seconds it changes into a mess and eventually he ends up with a completely disfigured and distorted image and then he finally draws the million pound picture with a pen in an effort to make it look like in its original form but it looks like a 3 year olds drawing.

Strictly no joke intended at all but it does look like the above scenario.


In your case you have almost done the same thing when you were told not to go to the court but in an effort to get rid of FPN you have now got a conviction.

Sorry but someone wise and educated like you is not suppose to deal such matters of paramount importance in such a stupid way of taking them to the court despite of being told here by the ecperts NOT to at all.

Hi

I really like your comments about my scenario many thanks and I also really love the way you've summarised it. You're right I am quite an articulate and educated person but I did all this mistake in just share desperation to apply for my BC that's all it is.

Amber I am really sorry but I still didn't really get what you actually wanted to say. One year is almost already passed from the day of my conviction, do you mean 2 years from the date of my conviction or from the date of my court decision. and you said if I show good reason if you dont mind kindly ellaborate this for me that would be really great. I've lost all the hopes already any ways I don't know what to say now.

I do really appoligise for hijacking some body else thread.

Many thanks and waiting for your reply.

[navalaviator]

Well your desperation definitely makes sense as you have been waiting for the last 6 odd years for BC and to honest you deserve it as you have worked your way up from the year 1 till your ILR and must have gone through alot to reach the stage of applying for BC.

Honestly you are still better off then so many other people who don't even have a visa and living and working illegally in a hope that one day they will be granted the right to stay here permanently i.e. ILR and you have got ILR which makes you a permanent resident and also gives you this huge edge over the others where you can work freely and live without any fear of immigration officers turning up at your work place.
so you should be grateful my friend and just move on.I know its really really difficult to come at terms with your predicament but you should move on and give some time to forget it.

As amber has said you might be eligible or lets put it this way you might have m ore chances of getting your BC after a period of two years as there is this exceptional grant discretion for non-custodial sentences where just two years have passed since the convition as normally you can apply after 3 years of the non-custodial conviction and this discretion could be applied in your case.

Please check the FAQ thread to comprehend what I am on about particularly non-custodial sentence questions.

You have mentioned in your previous posts that you would like to just get BC and move out but then whats the point I mean BC is for those people who have long term intentions of Living here permanently and obviously British passport allows them to enter several countries visa free but then again you still need a long term work visa if you want to move to somewhere else even with a Brit passport so whats the point when you can do the same with your current passport.

[Ayyubi72]

I am really sorry but I still didn't really get what you actually wanted to say. One year is almost already passed from the day of my conviction, do you mean 2 years from the date of my conviction or from the date of my court decision.

I think you are confused and do not understand the concept of conviction, and you are using date of FPN and conviction interchangeably.

When a police officer stops and give you a FPN, then that is the date of FPN. There is no conviction of any kind with this. If you do what it says on FPN then it is the end of matter. So, the word conviction must not be used for an FPN.

If you take the matter to the court, then word FPN should not be mentioned at all, as this matter is now before a court and this matter has nothing whatsoever to do with FPN.

Now you will be summoned to court. If you plead guilty in court, or just by sending papers to court, you will be pronounced quilty on the hearing date. It amounts to hollywood or bollywood drama that judge says "you are quilty". This is now conviction. No matter how you mitigate your circumstances to try to get lesser fine or points, a guilty plea is guilty plea and a conviction is a conviction. If you are fined 50 pence or 500 pounds, if you get 3 points or 12, it is the same thing for naturalisation purpose.

If you plead not quilty, then the judge will hear prosecution evidence and your defence. After that he will either give a "guilty" or "not guilty" verdict. If you are found not guilty, then you can just walk away as if nothing ever happened.

(You have to count 3 years from the date judge pronounced you quilty in the court.)

[Smam]

Well your desperation definitely makes sense as you have been waiting for the last 6 odd years for BC and to honest you deserve it as you have worked your way up from the year 1 till your ILR and must have gone through alot to reach the stage of applying for BC.

Honestly you are still better off then so many other people who don't even have a visa and living and working illegally in a hope that one day they will be granted the right to stay here permanently i.e. ILR and you have got ILR which makes you a permanent resident and also gives you this huge edge over the others where you can work freely and live without any fear of immigration officers turning up at your work place.
so you should be grateful my friend and just move on.I know its really really difficult to come at terms with your predicament but you should move on and give some time to forget it.

As amber has said you might be eligible or lets put it this way you might have m ore chances of getting your BC after a period of two years as there is this exceptional grant discretion for non-custodial sentences where just two years have passed since the convition as normally you can apply after 3 years of the non-custodial conviction and this discretion could be applied in your case.

Please check the FAQ thread to comprehend what I am on about particularly non-custodial sentence questions.

You have mentioned in your previous posts that you would like to just get BC and move out but then whats the point I mean BC is for those people who have long term intentions of Living here permanently and obviously British passport allows them to enter several countries visa free but then again you still need a long term work visa if you want to move to somewhere else even with a Brit passport so whats the point when you can do the same with your current passport.

Hi navalaviator,

Many thanks for your reply mate thanks a zillion you've made me a ill emotional and made my eyes teared. But unfortunately the pp I've today won't increase my mobility that's the bad thing hence I wanted to get my british pp and today is my 12th year going on in this country and bring perfectly honest with you I've lost more than what I've gained any ways.

Thanks a lots for useful reply.

Good luck to you for your bc.

Keep me updated with your application for bc.

[navalaviator]

Anybody who has been here for x number of years has gone through alot and I am no exception and have seen many very hard times and gone through alot during my immigratioin journey which rarely gave me moments of joy and relaxation but only faced tremendous amount of stress and despair.

Well IMHO If you make an application for BC and explain everything that how your FPN ended up as a conviction on your record and what efforts you made to prevent it from turning into a conviction might help you in your application and again IF you make your application as obviously as you have been advised here that applying with an unspent conviction could have detrimental effect on the outcome but I don't know if you explain everything and also tell your story that how long you have been here and also the amount of tax you have paid ever since you started working in a Highly professional category and also that you have always been a law abiding citizen throughout your 12 years stay plus you are professional and will continue to stay here and contribute and keep paying tax then it might help the case worker decide it in your favour.
I think if you apply along the above lines and use a professional immigration or nationality adviser(solicitor) to represent your case and explain your situation in a very convincing and persuasive way then they might give it you.

Pewasta reh shajar say umeed e bahar rakh(Remain Attached To The Tree Keep Spring’s Expectation)

[Smam]

Anybody who has been here for x number of years has gone through alot and I am no exception and have seen many very hard times and gone through alot during my immigratioin journey which rarely gave me moments of joy and relaxation but only faced tremendous amount of stress and despair.

Well IMHO If you make an application for BC and explain everything that how your FPN ended up as a conviction on your record and what efforts you made to prevent it from turning into a conviction might help you in your application and again IF you make your application as obviously as you have been advised here that applying with an unspent conviction could have detrimental effect on the outcome but I don't know if you explain everything and also tell your story that how long you have been here and also the amount of tax you have paid ever since you started working in a Highly professional category and also that you have always been a law abiding citizen throughout your 12 years stay plus you are professional and will continue to stay here and contribute and keep paying tax then it might help the case worker decide it in your favour.
I think if you apply along the above lines and use a professional immigration or nationality adviser(solicitor) to represent your case and explain your situation in a very convincing and persuasive way then they might give it you.

Pewasta reh shajar say umeed e bahar rakh(Remain Attached To The Tree Keep Spring’s Expectation)

Hi,

Many thanks mate your words really sounds magical to me mate.

Many thanks once again and good luck for all of your future endeavours.

will definitely keep the forum updated with me outcome.

[Amber]

Unless your non-custodial conviction has lapsed or there is good reason and 2 years have lapsed you will face almost certain refusal.

[gravesender]

Unless your non-custodial conviction has lapsed or there is good reason and 2 years have lapsed you will face almost certain refusal.

hi Amber , is your answer meant for me??

[elthamman]

can someone tell me how many is numerous fpn please??? i can apply in 3 weeks time , i have 9 points , 3 x 3 points , all minor speedings , only one in last 12 months , will i be allright???