Caution from Rail Company - AN - BC Appl & Referee for M

[bsat]

Hi There

Caught up in an unfortunate situation and need advise on next steps.

I and my wife are good, hard working, law abiding, tax paying citizens - Both are working. I'm in IT and shes working in Hospital. I work in London / commute via national rail and Shes works Locally. Son my 4 yrs old.

I came thro HSMP in 2006, all 3 are ILRs from Feb-2010 and I'm now an BC since Jan-2012. Just realising the change in rules for new KOLL, we intend to apply for BC via Naturalisation for my Wife and via Registration for my son (4 yrs old). She has cleared her Life in the UK exam on 28-Sep-13 and we have booked in NCS on 23-Oct-13, to submit AN and MN1 for my wife & Son respectively.

I have couple of issues - which I entrust upon this forum to clarify.

Issue 1 :

On 29-Sep-13 Sunday evening 5pm ish (just after the day of Life in the UK test), it was a stressful weekend. My wife decided to visit a mall from the train station next to ours to visit the mall in town center. We usually go to town center by our Car, but as I was away, she thought to take train (FCC is the TOC in this case) and she had my monthly seasons ticket in with her (I was to join them, but I hv taken car to elsewhere and joined them later). When approached my local station, the barriers were open and the train was already due, so we have rushed to the train.

At the next station, instead using the automatic barrier which lets you out, she has approached the officer at the barrier to open (as she and my son we were going). She is not used to monthly seasons ticket and its terms and conditions. So she never realised the mistake of use of travel card, until she was stopped and told so by the officer at the station. Then he interviewed her, taken details, address etc and cautioned her, explaining that we'll receive the letter for prosecution in 2 weeks time. She was not given any letters for caution, but was orally told she's being cautioned. I believe this is simple caution. We are still awaiting the letter from the rail company.

It was completely an error in judgement, she understands the mistake now, as well the loss of revenue to FCC. She never intended to evade tickets, but its lack of understating of the rules and regulations of my seasons ticket. She called me only when she has got held and signed-off forms with RPI. We certainly have some lessons learnt.

Apart of loss of 15 days worth of travel card confiscated (which is worth £230), we are also worried on the prosecution or any other criminal records this would cause. My wife is in medical profession and will significantly impact on her career, as well the BC. We both are very worried for the past week for this unfortunate situation.

We are happy to compensate all loss of revenue and any administrative cost in this regard for FCC and being first time, (having spoken to friends and other forums) - We think this will be resolved between us and the rail company and dont go to court or end up in prosecution or criminal conviction.

Now my questions are :
1 = Should we really apply for BC now or wait this this matter resolved ? Still trying to understand what the KOLL requirements, should we apply this later.
2 = Should we need to inform this in 'Good Charater' section in AN form - not sure, as this is not a police caution and we don't have anything in writing from rail company ?
3 = If this will amicably resolved between us and the rail company, should we need to mention this caution in AN Form or is it ok to apply without mentioning this in the AN Form ?
4 = If this will be treated as 'Simple Caution' - does this mean, it will this result in refusal of application as this happened in last 12 months period - and I need to await another year for before we re-apply AN Form ?
5 = If we are taken to court etc or end up in criminal conviction (which will worst case scenario), this will usually end up in Fine, will this result in refusal of application for 3 years and I need to await another 3 years for the BC application ?

I went thro 'British Citizenship – Good Character Requirement FAQs' questions and no clear guidance for this scenario, as this is not an police caution.

Bit worried of the consequences and appreciate help.

Issue 2 :

Referee's for my son :
Since my son has just joined school (4 yrs old), Its too short time (only 3 weeks) to get an sign from his teacher. I'm happy to get (1) VAT registered professional signature and (2) an BC / 25 yrs old signature. Should this help. Or is it mandatory to get GP, Health Visitor or Teacher's signature ? All of these people would be very new to us, as we have moved into this place only an year ago (for my wife's work).

I did see one of thread in forum, which suggested this will usually be relaxed for small kids. But since he just started going school, trying to verify. Thanks.

Thanks for the help guys. Much appreciated.

[VR]

Bsat,

1. Simple caution or Conditional caution or whatever requires a 3 year clear period and I believe you will have to wait till 2015 for your application to be successfull.

2.As for referees for your kid, you can put the names you have on your application for him too. Should not be an issue.

Good Luck
vr

[Amber]

VR a simple caution is where you admit guilt and sign a declaration. What the OP's spouse was given was a caution as in the words of a caution.... anything you say, can and will be used against you..... as a Rail Officer is classed as "persons other than police officers" under PACE, this means that they can carry out a PACE interview. However, they can only detain somebody under sec 5.2 of the Regulation of Railways Act 1889. Thus, is not a 3 year bar. If there is a pending prosecution I suggest you wait until you find out what is the outcome.

[VR]

Dear Amber,

Agreed. But the outcome of it inevitably results in a charge tantamount to Fare evasion and fine. There have be numerous instances over the past few years. How would they treat it if this is the case in this instance?? 3years or no need to disclose or 1 year waiting?

Appreciate your inputs.
Best Rgds
vr

[Amber]

If they are subsequently prosecuted and found guilty at court, then that would be a non-custodial sentence and 3 year ban.

[VR]

Dear Amber,

Yes, I have not come across a single case where they gave the benefit of doubt to any OP. Hence I suggested a 3 year wait on the worst case scenario.

In this country they just wait for an opportunity to throw the rule book at you.
Best Regards,
VR