Pregnant fiance being forced to leave the UK....

[Breezey007]

I am hoping there may be somebody out there that can assist us with a little helpful advice in regard to the best way to handle the situation we currently find ourselves in.

Basically I met my now fiance on Facebook, two years ago. She is from the USA, I am in England, like most people that meet in their 30's, we both have children from previous relationships, 4 each to be exact, and although it has always been difficult to keep them all happy, and spend time together, as well as working, and trying to build a future together, we have struggled along as best we could thus far.

The first time we met in person was in March 2012, when she traveled to Scotland to spend a week with me there. If it was possible, we would have loved to just move all of our children there and live happily ever, but sadly when it comes to exes, distance, schooling, and immigration laws, it was always just a dream.

After she returned, we had to spend the next 5 months apart, which was torture naturally. We worked hard and saved towards the next time we could be together, and in August 2012 she was able to return, this time for 3 months....at the beginning it seemed like it would last forever, but all to soon the departure date arrived, and she had to once again leave, which was heartbreaking.

At the beginning of 2013, I finally received an insurance payout for a work related accident. This meant I was able to buy all of our children their long overdue Christmas presents, and also pay for a ticket for her to travel back here for another 3 month stay. She was informed upon arrival that she would need to leave on the return date of her flight, even though the visa waiver program indicated that she could remain for 6 months maximum.....still, we were more than happy with another 3 months together.

During this visit, she fell pregnant, and although we knew it was going to be very difficult in the future, we were overjoyed. This however soon turned to devastation, when just days before she was due to fly back, we learned that she had suffered a miscarriage. To be brutally honest, I fell apart at this point. Not only was I about to lose the girl I love for another long period of time, but our baby had died. She was still bleeding on the day of her return flight, and I begged her not to leave, not only fearing for her health and mental stability, but also because I couldn't handle the though of her leaving right then.

The next 7 days is pretty much a blur. We barely left the house and cried continually. We didn't want any issues with immigration on top of the suffering we had already gone through, and so we called the airline, and booked the next available ticket for her to return to the US. Of course this was again heartbreaking for us both, but for many more reasons.

Then a miracle happened. A couple of weeks later, we found out that we were expecting again. We were elated, but at the same time saddened, as we knew this meant we would have to spend the vast majority of the pregnancy apart. I have spent the last 6 months watching my baby grow inside the girl I love through Skype, because I needed to provide for my children here, while keeping a roof over my head so that we have a home when she can finally return.

After spending the next 6 months apart, we purchased a ticket, and she flew into Heathrow Airport on Friday 11th October. She was then fingerprinted and photographed, held in a waiting area, interviewed, and basically treat like a criminal. She explained that she has been here twice before on a visa waiver program, and they seemed sympathetic as to the reasoning behind overstaying for 10 days last time, but yet they decided to retain her passport, and after ensuring she had missed her connection flight to Durham, told her she is allowed to stay temporarily, until Wednesday.....at which point she has to be back at Heathrow to leave the country.

At no point did anybody call me, even though they asked for my number and said they would. Because of their questioning, she then had to spend the night, at 6 months pregnant, in Heathrow Airport, and then travel the 400 mile journey via coach the next morning, arriving here late Saturday afternoon.

I find it ridiculous to believe that a girl who has never cost the British taxpayer a single penny, while carrying the child of a British citizen, can now be possibly banned from entering the UK for 10 years, regardless of the circumstances, which will ultimately lead to absolute tragedy for all of our children, not just the baby inside of her right now. We have a medical certificate stating that she is unfit to travel, based on the stress and anxiety caused at Heathrow, and are due to consult an immigration lawyer on Thursday to see what we can do in order to fight our corner....but if anybody has any extra advice in the meantime, it would be very much appreciated.

And just for the record, our other children are very well cared for by our ex partners, who we both have good relationships with, and all of them want this to turn out well for us, and their soon to be baby sister.

Many thanks for reading,

Stu.

[Lucapooka]

Wow, what a long post! Is there a question about immigration buried in there that you would like to clarify or are you just venting?

[MPH80]

Ok - so can I summarise this taking the emotion out of it (as there is little emotion inside the immigration authorities):

You've met and fallen in love with someone.

You met in person in March 2012, she stayed for a week
She returned in August for 3 months - leaving in October or November
She returned again in Jan 2013 and departed sometime in March 2013 having overstayed for 10 days.
She has now attempted to return again and has been told to leave by today.

Have I got that summary right?

So - the questions:

Was she attempting to return under the visa waiver program?
How long was she intending to stay?
Does she have a job back in the US?
Are all the medical bills incurred under the previous miscarriage paid for?
What's your current income level?

[Breezey007]

Ok - so can I summarise this taking the emotion out of it (as there is little emotion inside the immigration authorities):

You've met and fallen in love with someone.

You met in person in March 2012, she stayed for a week
She returned in August for 3 months - leaving in October or November
She returned again in Jan 2013 and departed sometime in March 2013 having overstayed for 10 days.
She has now attempted to return again and has been told to leave by today.

Have I got that summary right?

So - the questions:

Was she attempting to return under the visa waiver program?
How long was she intending to stay?
Does she have a job back in the US?
Are all the medical bills incurred under the previous miscarriage paid for?
What's your current income level?

Hi, yes apologies for the lengthy post, I wanted to get all the info out there, but could have probably done this in a shorter fashion.....

To answer your questions, she was attempting to return under the visa waiver program, intending to stay for 2 months, she does have a job and a home back in the US, there were no medical bills incurred with the miscarriage, as she was only in the very early stages of pregnancy, and my current income level falls short of the 18k benchmark, at around 15k....but my fiance's family are reasonably well off and have always been very supportive financially, as have my own, so although I get why they set a minimum income requirement, in the 8 months she has been here previously we have never asked for or received a single penny from government funds.

To answer the first post, I guess it does appear as more of a rant than a request for information, but I am just hoping that somebody will have a little experience of this, maybe been through a similar situation, and could possibly help us figure out a way to be able to spend a little more time together that isn't spent stressing about this predicament.

[MPH80]

Ok - so if we look at it from the UKBA point of view:

1) She overstayed last time - albeit with good reason - but after she had been cautioned to leave on her ticket date.

2) She's now 6 months pregnant and planning to stay to 8 months - which is a) very close to full term and b) dangerously close to the cut off issued by most airlines.

If I were an ECO - my eyebrows would raise as to whether this person is a genuine visitor or not.

Note: My wife was almost denied boarding on a return holiday flight earlier in the year when 24 weeks pregnant as they refused to believe her notes! This is despite being allowed on only a week earlier. It was only at the last second they said 'ok'. It's also worth noting she was in and out of hospital from week 34 and finally then went into labour at 36+2.

The easiest way to alleviate the stress of the situation you are in now is for her to return. It is probably the safest medically and for your sanity. Any appeal is not going to be resolved very quickly (e.g. not within days) and you may find her time is up anyway before any response is properly given. In the meantime you'll have spent the entire time wondering 'what if'.

Looking beyond that you now have to work out what you're willing to do to be together. Since you both have children on both sides of the pond - and you are well below the income threshold to support a wife AND children - I feel you have two options:

1) Move to the US and sacrifice your contact with your children here.

2) Follow the Singh route, get married, and move to another European country, bringing her and her children under the EEA permit route before returning to the UK.

You need to play any long distance, immigration bound, relationship as a long term game. My wife is from South American and we were apart for 4 years before she was able to arrive, but because we played within the rules we were able to do it entirely legally, without too much hassle, and with no issues in immigration. You need to think very carefully about the relationship and immigration choices you make.

You have one final option which is to wait and hope. There is an appeal going on around the financial thresholds which might result in an adjustment to them. But what this adjustment might look like or what the rules might look like after is anyone's guess. It would be unwise to pin your hopes on that.

I have one final comment - when talking to any immigration advisor keep in mind the motivation they have. Some are interested, ultimately, in financial gain - so will be willing to submit appeals that have little hope and willing to go down routes that may take a while to resolve, on the off chance that something might happen.

I do not wish to tar all advisors with this brush by any means, but you need to push the advisor under what, solid, grounds they are appealing and what cases they are going to be using to bolster your case (ask for the case references).

[Wanderer]

Bear in mind too the 18k benchmark is for a single person, children raise the bar and with four of them applying too....

I make it that you need to be earning nigh on £30k before you can apply, and the visa cost is not insignificant either, just checked and I nearly fell off my chair, £851 each, a total of £3404 - Wowzer. I remember when it was all free....

[vinny]

Consider MPH80's option 2: marriage, followed by the EEA route.

[Mr Rusty]

You need to play any long distance, immigration bound, relationship as a long term game. My wife is from South American and we were apart for 4 years before she was able to arrive, but because we played within the rules we were able to do it entirely legally, without too much hassle, and with no issues in immigration. You need to think very carefully about the relationship and immigration choices you make.

You have one final option which is to wait and hope. There is an appeal going on around the financial thresholds which might result in an adjustment to them. But what this adjustment might look like or what the rules might look like after is anyone's guess. It would be unwise to pin your hopes on that.

I have one final comment - when talking to any immigration advisor keep in mind the motivation they have. Some are interested, ultimately, in financial gain - so will be willing to submit appeals that have little hope and willing to go down routes that may take a while to resolve, on the off chance that something might happen.

Superb advice

[Breezey007]

Ok - so if we look at it from the UKBA point of view:

1) She overstayed last time - albeit with good reason - but after she had been cautioned to leave on her ticket date.

2) She's now 6 months pregnant and planning to stay to 8 months - which is a) very close to full term and b) dangerously close to the cut off issued by most airlines.

If I were an ECO - my eyebrows would raise as to whether this person is a genuine visitor or not.

Note: My wife was almost denied boarding on a return holiday flight earlier in the year when 24 weeks pregnant as they refused to believe her notes! This is despite being allowed on only a week earlier. It was only at the last second they said 'ok'. It's also worth noting she was in and out of hospital from week 34 and finally then went into labour at 36+2.

The easiest way to alleviate the stress of the situation you are in now is for her to return. It is probably the safest medically and for your sanity. Any appeal is not going to be resolved very quickly (e.g. not within days) and you may find her time is up anyway before any response is properly given. In the meantime you'll have spent the entire time wondering 'what if'.

Looking beyond that you now have to work out what you're willing to do to be together. Since you both have children on both sides of the pond - and you are well below the income threshold to support a wife AND children - I feel you have two options:

1) Move to the US and sacrifice your contact with your children here.

2) Follow the Singh route, get married, and move to another European country, bringing her and her children under the EEA permit route before returning to the UK.

You need to play any long distance, immigration bound, relationship as a long term game. My wife is from South American and we were apart for 4 years before she was able to arrive, but because we played within the rules we were able to do it entirely legally, without too much hassle, and with no issues in immigration. You need to think very carefully about the relationship and immigration choices you make.

You have one final option which is to wait and hope. There is an appeal going on around the financial thresholds which might result in an adjustment to them. But what this adjustment might look like or what the rules might look like after is anyone's guess. It would be unwise to pin your hopes on that.

I have one final comment - when talking to any immigration advisor keep in mind the motivation they have. Some are interested, ultimately, in financial gain - so will be willing to submit appeals that have little hope and willing to go down routes that may take a while to resolve, on the off chance that something might happen.

I do not wish to tar all advisors with this brush by any means, but you need to push the advisor under what, solid, grounds they are appealing and what cases they are going to be using to bolster your case (ask for the case references).

Many thanks for this very informative advice. As of writing this we have had a phone call from border control, who have informed us they are handing the details to their casework department, so at this moment we are pretty much just waiting to see what happens next.

You are very right about immigration advisors (not all, I'm sure). We received no real help contacting the citizens advice bureau, but were given the number of an immigration helpline, only to be told they charge a pound per minute....wish I could earn that, it would certainly ease the stress!.

And the immigration lawyer we spoke to told us that the visa application would cost 900, and for him filling it in a further 500...truth is we don't have thousands in the bank sadly, just an average couple doing their best to make a future, with a baby on the way, bills to pay, and a mountain load of issues to contend with on top....one day I'm sure we will be able to look back on all of this and laugh....I hope anyway.

Moving to another European country does seem like the best option given the current circumstances. Seems ridiculous to need to though, seeing as I was born here, I pay taxes, my fiance has never claimed any help from the government in all of the time spent here, and yet unemployed criminals, most likely from the same countries we will be checking into relocating to, can arrive here and be welcomed with open arms.....

Again, thank you so much for your helpful advice, and to everybody else who posted...I will of course write an update once we hear anything further, in the meantime I guess I can only try and keep my fiances blood pressure down while praying not to hear that dreaded knock at the door.

[Wanderer]

Many thanks for this very informative advice. As of writing this we have had a phone call from border control, who have informed us they are handing the details to their casework department, so at this moment we are pretty much just waiting to see what happens next.

You are very right about immigration advisors (not all, I'm sure). We received no real help contacting the citizens advice bureau, but were given the number of an immigration helpline, only to be told they charge a pound per minute....wish I could earn that, it would certainly ease the stress!.

And the immigration lawyer we spoke to told us that the visa application would cost 900, and for him filling it in a further 500...truth is we don't have thousands in the bank sadly, just an average couple doing their best to make a future, with a baby on the way, bills to pay, and a mountain load of issues to contend with on top....one day I'm sure we will be able to look back on all of this and laugh....I hope anyway.

Moving to another European country does seem like the best option given the current circumstances. Seems ridiculous to need to though, seeing as I was born here, I pay taxes, my fiance has never claimed any help from the government in all of the time spent here, and yet unemployed criminals, most likely from the same countries we will be checking into relocating to, can arrive here and be welcomed with open arms.....

Again, thank you so much for your helpful advice, and to everybody else who posted...I will of course write an update once we hear anything further, in the meantime I guess I can only try and keep my fiances blood pressure down while praying not to hear that dreaded knock at the door.

Fee is £851 per applicant, you've not said whether you intend to apply for her kids too but £500 for half a days work, if that cos you'd still have to do most of the legwork, is daylight robbery...

EU route is you best bet, it's free but of course you have the burden of relocating, flights everywhere etc, twice, so you might find it actually cheaper to pay the UK way in the long run!

[vinny]

you might find it actually cheaper to pay the UK way in the long run!

The UK way may be impossible, as

my current income level falls short of the 18k benchmark, at around 15k....but my fiance's family are reasonably well off and have always been very supportive financially,

Fiancé(e)'s income is ignored under 1(c). Third party maintenance support is limited.