Refusal Letter 200 k from Pakistan-- Guidence from GURU'S

[Asefchdry]

All Guru attention plz.,

I need your guidance on following refusal letter of mine and co-applicant. I have applied under Tier 1 entrepreneur category 200 k pounds equivalent from Pakistan.

Case Summary:
01-Investment money is in joint account 200 k pounds equivalent.
02-Business plan to open a “business consultancy company” we are professional and knowledge ,experience of consultancy in Pakistan as a banker and a senior teacher.
03-Interview has been conducted by ECO

Refusal reasons:

01-ECO asked about the first year turn over which is forecasted 162000 pounds for a year accordingly to our business plan, which has been told and calculated correctly and logic has also been shared with him for generating this figure like divide in month wise we will achieve our turn over but this seems to him not understandable. As I have only given the example of one month of 12000 pounds target, but he thinks it will remain same for whole next month’s and put in refusal letter that end year forecasted turnover is less 18000 pounds by this calculation.
02-ECO further highlighted or argued over the offered wage rates are less than the given uk minimum wage rates. This has been told to him, it may vary from fresh individual to the experienced person. Moreover, I will introduce the incentive plan which will compensate and equilibrium these short figures soon the business grow, moreover I will be in better position to understand the things when I will land there. As these are assumed figures.
03-You provided no plausible explanation as to why your business plan consists of such simple miscalculations and errors. I told him that whenever a business plan made it contains assume fugures.

Therefor I refuse your application under sub paragraphs (B), (F),(G) AND (I) OF PARAGRAPH 245 DB of the immigration rules.

Concerns:

Can you please guide me should I proceeds first for Admin. Review or directly Judiciary review and chances in your opinion to respond in better and smartway

[Asefchdry]

Attention Guru .. please comments

[haider.syed]

guru reply kero

[top]

I have read carefully everything you wrote and could feel whilst assessing where things might have gone wrong.

do not mind me saying but most of us think it is simple as it looks but story and the criteria to assess an application or applicant is different so it is not straight forward (I am talking about having professional help that you might not have had it for your application).

I would suggest you not to think about JR or anything that takes ages to be solved but to re-apply as everything you mentioned they objected is your business plan, do not change the plan but plan it accordingly,in accordance with UK business law you need to get further information how companies work in UK, the UK minimum wage rates, looking at how you answered to their questions I assume there must have been gab in communication as well especially when questioned on UK minimum wage where they described yours to be lower than allowed but your answer to it was not relevant.
they have got admin review for the out of country applications what it means is every decision that they make is accountable in your case they seem not to have made a mistake whilst assessing your digits because it is back down to them if identified mismanaged or miscalculated that they do not want.

word of advice, seek professional help you hopefully get visa this time as nothing wrong except business plan that was not up to a required level.

[Olasunkanmi]

@ Asefchdry, if I may ask how much did you state as the salary for your staff either per hour or monthly? This will help those commenting to understand what caseworker really meant.

Also, how much is your projected annual turnover for you to have assumed an annual profit of £162,000?

[Asefchdry]

Infact I have answered about the wage in terms of hourly basis and rate is 5 pounds per hour for a full time office manager (5 days a week and 8 hours a daily), but end aggregrate according to this calculation was less than the mentioned in businnes plan. But i have told him these are preassumed figures and it will sorted once I wull be there and I have also a plan for incentive structures etc..

By projecting this figure of turn over I am expecting an annual profit of £28000 after tax , morover I have explained him in detail about the methodology and mechism for achieving this turnover.

He further writes in his rejection comments that "whilst all these are not pre-requisites I consider it resonable that a genuine entreprenurial with intentions of establishing a business consultancy company would have a good understand of their bsuienss plan and forecast contained within it."

I mean after all this is a business plan , plans have variations, I know there is a mistake at wages part, But I feel is this not be able to rectify in JR, I would like to know the probabilities and chances to win or comment to rectify it in JR.

[Olasunkanmi]

@ Asefchdry, making such mistake on your business plan is a very serious matter as £5ph for an office manager is not possible in UK.

You might consider making amendment to your business plan and then submitting a fresh application. You might be lucky if you pursue JR but the chances is very slim.

[SHAIKH9870]

All Guru attention plz.,

I need your guidance on following refusal letter of mine and co-applicant. I have applied under Tier 1 entrepreneur category 200 k pounds equivalent from Pakistan.

Case Summary:
01-Investment money is in joint account 200 k pounds equivalent.
02-Business plan to open a “business consultancy company” we are professional and knowledge ,experience of consultancy in Pakistan as a banker and a senior teacher.
03-Interview has been conducted by ECO

Refusal reasons:

01-ECO asked about the first year turn over which is forecasted 162000 pounds for a year accordingly to our business plan, which has been told and calculated correctly and logic has also been shared with him for generating this figure like divide in month wise we will achieve our turn over but this seems to him not understandable. As I have only given the example of one month of 12000 pounds target, but he thinks it will remain same for whole next month’s and put in refusal letter that end year forecasted turnover is less 18000 pounds by this calculation.
02-ECO further highlighted or argued over the offered wage rates are less than the given uk minimum wage rates. This has been told to him, it may vary from fresh individual to the experienced person. Moreover, I will introduce the incentive plan which will compensate and equilibrium these short figures soon the business grow, moreover I will be in better position to understand the things when I will land there. As these are assumed figures.
03-You provided no plausible explanation as to why your business plan consists of such simple miscalculations and errors. I told him that whenever a business plan made it contains assume fugures.

Therefor I refuse your application under sub paragraphs (B), (F),(G) AND (I) OF PARAGRAPH 245 DB of the immigration rules.

Concerns:

Can you please guide me should I proceeds first for Admin. Review or directly Judiciary review and chances in your opinion to respond in better and smartway

I am sure yeh AM hoga jis nay tujahy reject mara hay ...yeh aisay hi sawal kerta hay mujhay bhi is nay reject mara tha jubkay main 2004 say uk main who business ker raha houn ...sorry about my lang mugger main UK say Pak isi visa kay liye aya tha yaaroun ...yeh ISL walay kaminay hain 3rd party letter use mut karo ...yeh sub angreezi main likhta tu maza nahin ataa...Re-apply karo aur figure sub set hain u ki minimum wage £ 6.50 kerdo...

Edit this post!

[Asefchdry]

@ sheikh yes , Same AM...

I mean I can not understand why I should go into the again process of re-apply, as I know here in Pak, when i apply with corrections they again put an mark and compare it with the previous application that you said that time and now you with this version..how you got this...bula bula..

I am wondering why not I should fight in JR.. with strong comments that these are business plan digits and assumed figures and methodology for business plan to get an idea of starting an business. and i feel re apply is more costly than the JR..

DO not we feel that in JR jugde will apply it on flexibility law as business yet to set up and mking this state of mind i am considering this to go into JR. please comments so i could make up my mind..if i am thinking out of box..

rgds

[SHAIKH9870]

@ sheikh yes , Same AM...

I mean I can not understand why I should go into the again process of re-apply, as I know here in Pak, when i apply with corrections they again put an mark and compare it with the previous application that you said that time and now you with this version..how you got this...bula bula..

I am wondering why not I should fight in JR.. with strong comments that these are business plan digits and assumed figures and methodology for business plan to get an idea of starting an business. and i feel re apply is more costly than the JR..

DO not we feel that in JR jugde will apply it on flexibility law as business yet to set up and mking this state of mind i am considering this to go into JR. please comments so i could make up my mind..if i am thinking out of box..

rgds

I wouldn't advise to go for JR while you are in PAKISTAN ( 10th World country now thanks to MR 10%) anyway ...you better re-apply...in JR I had bad experience they will take your whole year may be more and you will suffer tension, Les Talk , Less paper work and money under your name go for it...I had interview at Monday morning and when Say this idiot AM he was seems Pissed and don't know nothing about businesses, he is just earning few quid's /hr.

[Asefchdry]

Did you re- apply and how was interview this time?

[SHAIKH9870]

Did you re- apply and how was interview this time?

No I haven't re-apply I went for AR - now waiting for it and thinking to make it FRESH application and money under my name NOW.

Interview seems to me unrelated with the business you do, I don't understand why they ask unrelated question, they should ask pry applicant for business related question.

[Davmck70]

Can you liken your situation to this story of a student that has been told to repeat due to not doing well at his exams. the boy has 2 options: 1. to repeat and put more efforts at passing this time around without looking back at previous mistakes but using it as an energy for progress as he completely understands where he went wrong or 2. to question the person that marked the scripts saying he failed him due to so and so reasons. at the end of the day, the scripts will be remarked and the chances of him passing at that point is still very slim.

Irony of the story is that your re-applying has nothing to do with your earlier mistake. Correct the mistakes, seek advice from the knowledgeable ones and prepare well for your interview. From your story, am not particularly convinced your business plan was solid enough. It looks very adventurous..

[Asefchdry]

I do link it with my situation the above story.. but as i mentioned earlier in pakistan..problem is they relate and compare with your previous and current situation of application..

i am hopeless in AR, that they will not turn down the result,, but i heard that JR ppl are supportive.. what you think

[top]

lets consider them(JR people) supportive for a minute but they can not stand along with you for the answers you made on UK minimum wage, you when JR would either say you did not know the rate or I made it assuming things but I will know exactly when I land as you have already said it in your interview, either ways it shows you being incompetent and unaware of how things work in UK, everything that you have said is recorded.

had if you said everything or provided everything in accordance with law where ECO assumed things in the air as normally happens would have given you a direction as JR but in a situation where you said something you are not supposed to, none of us members suggested you for JR either JR which is in fact an objection on the policy handling that one challenges as when you met all requirements but ECO is not satisfied is shown as an error made by ECO is a genuine ground for JR you case is not a JR case !!!

[SHAIKH9870]

lets consider them(JR people) supportive for a minute but they can not stand along with you for the answers you made on UK minimum wage, you when JR would either say you did not know the rate or I made it assuming things but I will know exactly when I land as you have already said it in your interview, either ways it shows you being incompetent and unaware of how things work in UK, everything that you have said is recorded.

had if you said everything or provided everything in accordance with law where ECO assumed things in the air as normally happens would have given you a direction as JR but in a situation where you said something you are not supposed to, none of us members suggested you for JR either JR which is in fact an objection on the policy handling that one challenges as when you met all requirements but ECO is not satisfied is shown as an error made by ECO is a genuine ground for JR you case is not a JR case !!!

True, Well said, good stories but due to your apart from mistakes you did in your application, I would say better to wait for few months ( as its bad time to applying from Pakistan under Tier 1, Tier 4 Visa ) Whatever you do , either you seek help from QC ...case worker will always have point to reject the application and they will not return such letter ( which cause the mistake in application ) I know that they do knowingly that's why they don't return such docs.

Better to Wait or apply fresh if rejected then again re-apply and so on until you got the visa.

[feelings92]

Hi
I got even rejected after interview in islamabad
First reason is tht i didnt tell him right turnover, which later he gave right figure according to business plan doesnt seem to be tht turnover for
A year( actually when he asked question abt turnover, i didnt hear properly bec there was Pakistani guy who was translating question to me, then later when i understand i told him figure

Second question was abt minimum wage n it was nt in my mind of
Minum wage so maybe i told him wrong( but in my business plan it was mentioned tht i will hire experience people for my company)

Third reason i was given tht i have been to uk for Acca, which i found difficult n came back to pakistan without completing my degree and u obtained no formal education. In light of your ability to obtain a acedemic qualification on ur last stay in uk, i do nt consider plausible tht u have the skills n capabilities to establish a business in uk at this time

My application was refused under paragraph (b) (f) (g) and (i) of paragraph 245BD


Now i have sent for Ar, so what u think any chances there after AR,

Thanks in advance

[SHAIKH9870]

Hi
I got even rejected after interview in islamabad
First reason is tht i didnt tell him right turnover, which later he gave right figure according to business plan doesnt seem to be tht turnover for
A year( actually when he asked question abt turnover, i didnt hear properly bec there was Pakistani guy who was translating question to me, then later when i understand i told him figure

Second question was abt minimum wage n it was nt in my mind of
Minum wage so maybe i told him wrong( but in my business plan it was mentioned tht i will hire experience people for my company)

Third reason i was given tht i have been to uk for Acca, which i found difficult n came back to pakistan without completing my degree and u obtained no formal education. In light of your ability to obtain a acedemic qualification on ur last stay in uk, i do nt consider plausible tht u have the skills n capabilities to establish a business in uk at this time

My application was refused under paragraph (b) (f) (g) and (i) of paragraph 245BD


Now i have sent for Ar, so what u think any chances there after AR,

Thanks in advance

Hahahaha Sorry for my Laugh but Same Question about Turnover as he asked me I got confused and told him cost of Sale, and then he told me the right figure so I said , I mentioned excluding the profit as he start argue with me about Turn over Terms ...I said sorry I got confused etc - and same Pakistani Guy was there , I start my interview in English so he said you told me I will translate him ...anyway I was thinking why he is not asking about my business not the things related for Accountants and Solicitors ( That is why we paid for them ) ASK me about my Product my business...well after few times he came up with my business ...and I started. but I got refusl 3rd part bank letter ( Which UKBA don't required after 1st oct 2013 - they knew its their stupid demand)...anyway I got Refusal ffom AR as well now will got for new fresh application...as I am genuine entity.

[SHAIKH9870]

AR is just waste of time to be honest...they support each other caseworker / ECO different Terms but same work - having TEA together...anyway WHO was your ECO ? named at your refusal letter

[Asefchdry]

@sheikh just tell me do we have to dispatch/ submit the AR in pakistan or in uk.

[Amber]

SHAIKH9870 this is a warning, do not write in Urdu, the language of the board is English. Moreover, the Urdu you have used above is not acceptable. I want you to edit your post above and remove the offensive language please. If I see it again you'll be put on thin ice.

[SHAIKH9870]

@sheikh just tell me do we have to dispatch/ submit the AR in pakistan or in uk.

Hi just got my AR reply yesterday and it Was -ve as expected ( yes we do submit AR reply in Pakistan - Islamabad Address )

as I said above they don't consider the AR - they have all my letters from initial application to AR but they saying they have not got it ...I wish They were here in UK not in Pakistan - I can get QC to fixed them properly and get visa for real entity.

anyway - AR / Outside Pakistan waste of time - try new Fresh apps.

or Let this AM go for holidays

[SHAIKH9870]

SHAIKH9870 this is a warning, do not write in Urdu, the language of the board is English. Moreover, the Urdu you have used above is not acceptable. I want you to edit your post above and remove the offensive language please. If I see it again you'll be put on thin ice.

Ok Boss ...

[usemobile]

Same 245DB rejection from India,... its copy paste format for all interviews.

Any news on AR and JR s ?

[passion5]

this is the same kuta who refused our t1 ent on same grounds ,,i know him ,he is dearly beloved as well.