PLEASE HELP! PR REFUSED EEA FAMILY MEMBER

[nemerkh]

Hello i have posted before. i am an eea family member of an eu citizen (no restriction) been here for around 6 years. Initiallty sent my application off last oct 2012 for a PR on the basis that my wife is self employed however they refused to confirm our eea3/4 because UKBA said my wife wasnt economically active. We appealed through a solicitor but today we got a reply that our appeal failed. solicitor said they might grant us another appeal but in all honesty i dont wanna part with another 2k.

question is what to do now. My wife is fully exercising her EU rights via employment (zero contract agency doing more than 16 hrs a week on average) and self sufficiency ( i make money and we have a joint account and a sickness insuranvce via AXA).
I understand that with her exercising eu rights i have rights to stay and work however i wanna apply for a confirmation.am guessing its gonna be another 5 yrs permit EEA1/2 but which route to take is it the employment or self sufficiency?
in general we are very stressed out could you help us?

[Obie]

Either your lawyer has done done his job properly in presenting your case, or the judge is simply wrong in law. You have a right to appeal to the Upper Tribunal if the case us the later.

[nemerkh]

thanks Obie
i take on board what you are saying the thing is its getting psychologically difficult for us like this. more appeals means more money and more passportless time not allowing us to carry on our normal lives. I dont care anymore about the PR in all honesty i am ready to apply for another 5 years and then the PR only i dont know if that is the correct way to do it?
as i mentioned before the solicitor said i have got a right to appeal again, i dont need to leave the country and that the UKBA is asking for more confirmation of exercising EU rights.
problem is after they told us that self employment isnt adequate in our case, sonce then my wife ditched that and is employed with a comprehensive sickness insurance hence we could do with self sufficiency if needed as well.

[Obie]

The lawyer should have put both issues on the card. Argue the PR and direct the Tribunal to still allow the appeal on the basis that you are entitled to another Residence card if you fail to demonstrate sufficient evidence treaty rights over a five year period. This is perfectly allowed under section 85 (4) NIA 2002.

You are more than free to apply again, but given their dealings with previous applications and the length of time it takes for application to be decided, it will be best to have both options in play.

[nemerkh]

well the thing is, for a PR you need to be exercising for 5 yrs. my wife wasnt emplyed till recently i.e. after the refusal and neither we have a comprehensive sickness cover. therefore, in logic we and according to them we were not exercising eu rights then. however the only thing is, i had friends who applied as self sufficient without sickness cover, and then did one and resent the application and were approved despite not having one throughout the 5 years so its confusing.
i will have a lengthy discussion with my solicitor friday and we will explore all options.

[Obie]

Ok.

I cant help thinking why a competent lawyer would allow you to pursue a costly appeal, when you could not show evidence of treaty right for 5 years period, and having realised this, why he did not advice you prior to the appeal to get medical insurance, together with your salary, and submit to the IJ that notwithstanding the fact that you do not qualify under 15(1b) , you nevertheless qualify for a new residence card under 17 (1) and hence your appeal stood to be allowed. In those circumstance 2k would not have gone down the drain and another appeal or a new application which could take several months to decide would not have proven necessary.

You indeed need to have a proper discussion with your lawyer, and in my opinion he owes you a lots of answers . Whatever the outcome he has costed you 3-6 months further delay, which in my judgement is totally unnecessary

[nemerkh]

i know and totally understand. am very frustrated myself but i havent got any options.

[nemerkh]

right had a chat to my solicitor, he said we could apply for a right to appeal but didn't sound convincingg and sure about it. I have decided to abandon the appeal, i have come to the conclusion that i wanna extend another 5 yrs i.e reapply via EEA1/2 route.
at the moment, my EU wife is on zero contract work through the agency, rough avg of 16 hrs/weekbut the agency are refusing to call themselves as her employers but stated she works regularly for them. the whole thing isn't very solid though on papers, we do have payslips.
i was thinking as we have a comp sick cover for all of us to just apply as self sufficient.
my 5 yrs permit expired on jan 2013, whilst i was processing the PR that was refused
so we are married have a joint account, i work with a good income, we have no public funds, no benefits, and a sick cover.

My question is, as we reside in the UK for the 6th year now, how far back we need to provide data for the EEA1/2? i have a contract of employ. and payslips for the last 6 years but am sure they don't want them that long. Is 6 months enough? or maybe a year back?
do i have to explain in the cover letter that our PR was refused on the basis of not enough Selfemplyed evidence and hence we r applying via EE1/2?
theoretically we have all whats needed for the self sufficiency route we only aren't quite sure on how far back information we need to provide!
could you guys please advice??
thanks muchly
Nick

[nemerkh]

Anyone?

[sheraz7]

right had a chat to my solicitor, he said we could apply for a right to appeal but didn't sound convincingg and sure about it. I have decided to abandon the appeal, i have come to the conclusion that i wanna extend another 5 yrs i.e reapply via EEA1/2 route.
at the moment, my EU wife is on zero contract work through the agency, rough avg of 16 hrs/weekbut the agency are refusing to call themselves as her employers but stated she works regularly for them. the whole thing isn't very solid though on papers, we do have payslips.
i was thinking as we have a comp sick cover for all of us to just apply as self sufficient.
my 5 yrs permit expired on jan 2013, whilst i was processing the PR that was refused
so we are married have a joint account, i work with a good income, we have no public funds, no benefits, and a sick cover.

My question is, as we reside in the UK for the 6th year now, how far back we need to provide data for the EEA1/2? i have a contract of employ. and payslips for the last 6 years but am sure they don't want them that long. Is 6 months enough? or maybe a year back?
do i have to explain in the cover letter that our PR was refused on the basis of not enough Selfemplyed evidence and hence we r applying via EE1/2?
theoretically we have all whats needed for the self sufficiency route we only aren't quite sure on how far back information we need to provide!
could you guys please advice??
thanks muchly
Nick

Regardless number of times an EEA2/EEA1 RC is applied then only the evidences of treaty rights of current time/time of application are needed despite evidences covering a bit longer can make case more stronger. I believe as you said 6 months then it should be sufficient. But make sure in your self sufficiency route your EEA partner has access to funds and your CSI plan covers whole family.

[nemerkh]

Thanks

Yes my wife and i have a joint account and obviously we both use it. We do have a CSI covering the wife and kids hence it should be all ok fingers crossed.

[Amber]

in the process of applying for yet another EEA1/2. my spouse and i wanna go the self sufficient route, but the beloved HSBC bank sent us incomplete statements for our joint account. we asked for last 12 months they sent us around 5-6 statements with gaps in months. on the statements however we can produce my income and our AXA CSI direct debit.
question is does the UKBA require all of statements in order or this will do? i just wanna do the applications ASAP to get the COA to produce to my employer before the s*** hits the fan!
thanks

in the process of applying for yet another EEA1/2. my spouse and i wanna go the self sufficient route, but the beloved HSBC bank sent us incomplete statements for our joint account. we asked for last 12 months they sent us around 5-6 statements with gaps in months. on the statements however we can produce my income and our AXA CSI direct debit.
question is does the UKBA require all of statements in order or this will do? i just wanna do the applications ASAP to get the COA to produce to my employer before the s*** hits the fan!
thanks

You are require to sent within 6 weeks from the date on which you submit your application.

sorry i didn't really get what you said. send what within 6 weeks?

Why you want to sent 12 months bank statement?is there any reason.


For EEA1/2 applicants are require to sent current treaty rights.(treaty right documents date within 6 weeks before the application sent date).

[nemerkh]

I see.
Well i provided documentation for upto 8 recent months. I am a bit twitchy about ukba after my experience with the PR leaving us with MORE EVIDENCE NEEDED excuse. I have sent an EEA1/2 for now cause we decided with my wife self employment is just a mine field and that the ukba is just finding the tiniest excuse just not to give.
For now we dont really care, we juat wanna get an RC be it for another 5 yrs and later we will sort the PR out.
We sent all what they wanted for self sufficience status as eea1/2 fingers crossed.

[askmeplz82]

[quote="nemerkh"]

" i had friends who applied as self sufficient without sickness cover, and then did one and resent the application and were approved despite not having one throughout the 5 years "




Can you tell us bit more about your friend case. I've seen 5/6 cases in this forum exactly same like this but haven't got a clue how is it possible. Obviously HOME OFFICE can't issue a PR without seeing 5 years exercising treaty right for EEA national ( I mean they must abide by the rules )

i'm trying to do bit research on that . Can you ask your friend

- How he got his/her 5 years resident card

- What documents he submitted for PR application

- What his/her wife doing for 5 years

[nemerkh]

Well he is non eu his wife is an eu national. He also got a criminal record even! Basically they applied for a PR on the basis of a joint account, his employment and thats it. The Home office then sent the docs back saying that they needed a sickness cover, so they bought one, sent the documents back to the home office and got the PR!! I was amazed on how unfair the system is and its a matter of luck.
By the way the same guy and his wife went for naturalisation docs with the CAB to fill out the application, they told him that it was a mistake that he got the PR for two things: the CSI and the criminal record!!
There you go mate. Fair life.

[askmeplz82]

Well he is non eu his wife is an eu national. He also got a criminal record even! Basically they applied for a PR on the basis of a joint account, his employment and thats it. The Home office then sent the docs back saying that they needed a sickness cover, so they bought one, sent the documents back to the home office and got the PR!! I was amazed on how unfair the system is and its a matter of luck.
By the way the same guy and his wife went for naturalisation docs with the CAB to fill out the application, they told him that it was a mistake that he got the PR for two things: the CSI and the criminal record!!
There you go mate. Fair life.

i've heard few more cases like this in this forum. really strange. 5 years exercise treaty as self sufficent on the NON EU national income ( not as a student ) but without CSI so Home office refused PR ( according to the rules ) but the applicant then purchased new CSI and ask for reconsideration/new application and PR approved

well i wonder who those case workers are. I asked this question to a guy who is expert in EU Law but he don't have a clue too

[nemerkh]

I agree. This is utterly unfair and very inconsiderate. Dealing with the home office is like a lottery. It may as well depend on the literacy of the case worker, the mood they are in or anything else but not their own rules and regulations. The thing is that they are gambling on peoples way of living. We have been living in the uk for more than 6 years now with high income, loads of tax paid, no a single benefit or failed crb but yet we have to suffer through the process because we did everything according to their own law. I know people who are a real burden to this society getting their RcS and PR within weeks not months and with missing or incomplete documents.
Bizarre.