Advice sought: EEA visitor permit or entry without permit?

[crookall]

I intend to send this to UK immigration. First, however, I would very much appreciate your opinions, recommendations, advice, further supporting fact, etc. Many thanks.

Dear Madam / Sir
May I outline our situation, and then ask some questions?

I am a dual national (both French & British passports), and a French Government civil servant. I have family in Britain. My wife is a Thai national, and holds a long-term resident card for France. We live in the south of France. Both my wife’s daughters are resident with us in France and go to school here in France. My wife has previously obtained four EEA family permits to visit Britain; her daughters one each.

Our problem is that, to obtain such a permit, we need to travel 1000 km, which:

• o is very expensive,
  o takes a lot of time, and
  o adds to unneeded CO2 in the atmosphere.
  o is impossible when we need to obtain a permit quickly (this happened recently when my mother died; and it is appalling to be forced do that under those circumstances).

My question is: Is it possible for my wife to apply for a permit:

• o which would last 4 or 5 years,
  o which would allow her to make multiple visits,
  o for example, stays of a maximum length, such as 4 weeks,
  o for up to a maximum number per year, such as 3?

How can we apply for such a permit? Do we even need one? For example, on 18 Dec, 2014, the Court of Justice of the European Union, Judgment in Case C-202/13, concluded: Where third-country nationals hold a residence card of a family member of a Union citizen, the United Kingdom cannot make their right of entry subject to the requirement that they must first obtain a visa. The directive on free movement of Union citizens does not allow measures which preclude family members from entering the territory of a Member State without a visa.

Two questions: (1) Is it thus necessary for my wife even to apply for a EEA family permit? Can she not just travel to the UK with her passport and resident card, without being subjected to the huge expense and trouble of having to obtain what appears to be an illegal permit? (2) Given the court’s ruling on this, has the UK immigration authority or the government then been illegally requiring people to apply for a permit when it is not necessary? If so, in what ways can we seek compensation for cost dispensed as a result of illegal action (costs being travel, expenses, and time).

Your web site says that it provides a web chat service. Pls indicate to me the URL, so that I may use that service.

In your replies, pls reply fully by email. Please do not simply refer to web pages, as these are sometime incomplete and even cryptic, sometimes sending you round in circles.

Thank you for your detailed replies.
Sincerely,

[crookall]

What is an Article 10 Residence Card of a Family Member of a EU Citizen ?

Dear Colleagues,
I am a French national, French Gov Civil Servant, uni prof.

My wife (from Thailand) has a resident card as follows:

• o Name: Birth name, New family name (my family name), First name
  o Length: 10 years, expiry 2015
  o Card heading: Titre de Séjour
  o Inscription: Nature du titre: Carte de Résident
  o Including work permit & our home address in France
  o The background of the card consists of wavy lines of “EU” written about 4600 times on the front and about 3000 times on the back
  
  (She also has Thai passport, French marriage cert, French language certificates, French telephone bills, French bank account statements, French medical insurance card, French family book, French work certificate, French school reports for daughters, French electricity bills, French outdoor sports insurance card, copies of old French resident cards, airline bills for travel to and from other Schengen states, hotel bills for stays in other Schengen states, etc.)

My questions:

1. Does her current resident card (described above) qualify as an Article 10 Resident Card?

2. If not, what is thing called an “Article 10 Residence Card”? What things disqualify the above card from being an Article 10 Residence Card?

3. Do you know of a web site that gives descriptions or pictures of this type of card?

4. Can my wife use this card so we can travel together to the UK for a holiday without asking for a family permit?

I do not see how to put a scanned copy in this forum, but I can place a copy (with name, birth date, etc. blotted out) in a web site, and send the URL.
Many thanks for any help.
Best, david

[vinny]

1. No.
2. Entering the UK as the holder of an Article 10 residence card
3. Name and picture of each member state's Residence Card
4. Entry possible under 11(4) and 13.

[secret.simon]

I am a dual national (both French & British passports)

My wife has previously obtained four EEA family permits to visit Britain; her daughters one each.

When did your wife and daughters get their EEA Family Permits?
At the time, were you a dual British citizen? And if so, did you disclose that fact in the application for your family's EEA Family Permit?

The reasons for these questions is that since 2012, a dual British citizen can not exercise EU treaty rights in the UK as his British citizenship is treated as being more proximate than EU treaty rights.

Broadly, the same principle applies across the EU. Treaty rights can not be exercised in a country of which you are a citizen. Hence, your wife and children are not eligible for EEA family permits or Article Residence Cards or other EEA immigration paraphernalia in either the UK or France, as you are a citizen of both these countries. Were you to move to another EU country, such as Belgium or Luxembourg, they could issue your wife an Article 10 Residence Card.

I disagree with vinny with great trepidation that entry is possible under the EEA Regulations at all.

Vinny, could the Surinder Singh route be exercised at all by the OP residing in France if he is a dual French-British citizen? Would the UK government treat such a dual citizen as exercising treaty rights in France and then returning?

[vinny]

In answer to a similar question, the Home Office (and myself) had initially agreed with secret.simon. However, the Home Office apparently considered this matter further:


Home Office:

Having now considered this matter further and discussed with legal advisors, our amended advice is that, as the EEA Regulations are currently drafted, there is nothing to prevent the family member of a dual British/Irish citizen from qualifying under regulation 9 as a result of the British/Irish citizen having resided in the Republic of Ireland as a worker or self-employed person (since the Republic of Ireland meets the definition of “EEA State” in regulation 2(1)), provided all of the requirements of regulation 9 are otherwise met. We are considering whether we need to amend regulation 9 to better reflect the relevant case-law (including McCarthy) and this matter is still under consideration.

[crookall]

Dear vinny and secret.simon
Many thanks indeed for your trouble and most helpful reply. I will try to answer you below.

I am a dual national (both French & British passports)

My wife has previously obtained four EEA family permits to visit Britain; her daughters one each.

When did your wife and daughters get their EEA Family Permits?

Wife: In 2011 & 2012 = C Mult visa (from Bangkok, I think); In 2013 & 2014 (two trips) = VISA EEA FP FAMILY MEMBER (from France)
Two daughters: I think 2014 (from France)

At the time, were you a dual British citizen? And if so, did you disclose that fact in the application for your family's EEA Family Permit?

I have been a British citizen since I was born, and a French citizen for about 40 years.
On each of the above applications I stated expressly and explicitly that I was also British, and that we were visiting my family in the UK. I actually wrote a signed letter about this and included it in my wife's application.

The reasons for these questions is that since 2012, a dual British citizen can not exercise EU treaty rights in the UK as his British citizenship is treated as being more proximate than EU treaty rights.

Well, it looks like they did not bother with that when they looked my wife's application.

Broadly, the same principle applies across the EU. Treaty rights can not be exercised in a country of which you are a citizen. Hence, your wife and children are not eligible for EEA family permits or Article Residence Cards or other EEA immigration paraphernalia in either the UK or France, as you are a citizen of both these countries. Were you to move to another EU country, such as Belgium or Luxembourg, they could issue your wife an Article 10 Residence Card.

I disagree with vinny with great trepidation that entry is possible under the EEA Regulations at all.

Vinny, could the Surinder Singh route be exercised at all by the OP residing in France if he is a dual French-British citizen? Would the UK government treat such a dual citizen as exercising treaty rights in France and then returning?

Since posting my questions, I have been told by three different immigration layers that:
- My wife does not need anything, not even a family permit for spouse of EU national, citing a Court of Justice of the European Union PRESS RELEASE No 182/14, Luxembourg, 18 December 2014
Judgment in Case C-202/13.
- She should apply for a family visa.
- She should apply for a visitor visa.

Which one should we go for?
Many thanks for all your help, dc

What is an Article 10 Residence Card of a Family Member of a EU Citizen ?

Dear Colleagues,
I am a French national, French Gov Civil Servant, uni prof.

My wife (from Thailand) has a resident card as follows:

• o Name: Birth name, New family name (my family name), First name
  o Length: 10 years, expiry 2015
  o Card heading: Titre de Séjour
  o Inscription: Nature du titre: Carte de Résident
  o Including work permit & our home address in France
  o The background of the card consists of wavy lines of “EU” written about 4600 times on the front and about 3000 times on the back
  
  (She also has Thai passport, French marriage cert, French language certificates, French telephone bills, French bank account statements, French medical insurance card, French family book, French work certificate, French school reports for daughters, French electricity bills, French outdoor sports insurance card, copies of old French resident cards, airline bills for travel to and from other Schengen states, hotel bills for stays in other Schengen states, etc.)

My questions:

1. Does her current resident card (described above) qualify as an Article 10 Resident Card?

2. If not, what is thing called an “Article 10 Residence Card”? What things disqualify the above card from being an Article 10 Residence Card?

3. Do you know of a web site that gives descriptions or pictures of this type of card?

4. Can my wife use this card so we can travel together to the UK for a holiday without asking for a family permit?

I do not see how to put a scanned copy in this forum, but I can place a copy (with name, birth date, etc. blotted out) in a web site, and send the URL.
Many thanks for any help.
Best, david

[noajthan]

Regarding the dual nationality aspect of this puzzling case, I can only speculate that perhaps France permits dual-nationals who are French/EEA nationals to be treated as a non-French EEA national and thus exercise treaty rights in France.

If so it may be the case that you could either be considered by UK HO to be French or else to be a 'returning BC who has exercised treaty rights by virtue of Surinder Singh' in France.
This might be one explanation of how FPs were previously issued to your family.
Unless ofcourse it was simply down to that peculiar British combination of luck and incompetence on the part of HO.

The type C visas mentioned were perhaps Irish visas and not British?

You seem to be averse to links, but if you are able to do some of the heavy lifting here are some pertinent and useful links...

For how to enter UK (as an EEA family) without an entry visa, try here:
https://eumovement.wordpress.com/2010/0 ... to-travel/
- your mileage, as a Briton, may ofcourse vary.
Health warning: Expect delays and questions if you go commando and adopt this approach.

See also:
https://blogs.kent.ac.uk/eu-rights-clin ... pril-2015/
- note the caution about the universality of domestically-issued RCs (rather than Article x RCs).

... residence permits issued under national immigration law to the family members of EU citizens living in their country of nationality will not benefit from this exemption.

Worst case: why not apply online for a FP via the Gov UK website? (why incur a lengthy road trip at all?).

[vinny]

Regarding the dual nationality aspect of this puzzling case, I can only speculate that perhaps France permits dual-nationals who are French/EEA nationals to be treated as a non-French EEA national and thus exercise treaty rights in France.

Probably not, as wife did not appear to get a EEA family Article 10 Residence card.