my non EEA spouse Permanent residence refused

[ingridtjv]

Hi all.
My name is Nel I have been living in England for 6 years with my husband who is a German National and me from Ivory coast.
I apply for eea family residence card in 2010 and got 5 years which expired in November 2015. And i have then made an application for permanent residence permit which was refused and asking me to leave UK.
During the 6 years I ve woked for 2 years full time ( 2010- 2012) then part time from (2012- 2016) and also studied full time from 2013 till 2015. And i also have 2 kids born in tge uk
My husband the eea national was working full time till 2013 after he also studied and register as self employed but as the business wasnt bringing money he stoped and now register as job seeker since last month.
By the time of my application he was self employed and the visa was refused because we havent submitted enough evidence that he is economically active in the UK at the time of my application.
My question: what can I do to first stop them for enforced me to leave the UK?
As my husband is now on job seeker can I make a fresh application? I m despered
Thank you for your response.

[Choi Saab]

More details about the EEA national please. when did he arrive in the UK, when did he start employment that ended in 2013? Also the dates of starting and ending self employment. how many years tax returns etc ?

[ingridtjv]

Hi Choi
Thank you for your reply.
He enter uk in 2006 and worked from 2006 til 2010.
The self employement was for 2 years from 2013 til march 2016 but he was receiving working tax credit as the business was not bringing any money.
He got 2 years tax return (2013-2014 and 2014-2015 and paid national insurance contribution
Hope these help
Thanks a lot

[Choi Saab]

from the info you provided it seems like the eea national has not completed 5 years as a qualified person yet and if thats true then appealing or re applying will be pointless. in my opinion the safest option is for him to get back to work asap and you apply for another residence card meanwhile.

[ingridtjv]

thank you Choi
But my concern now is what should I do to stop the Home office to enforced me to leave the Uk? can I wrote to them ? if yes what should I stated in the letter?
can I not apply for PR now because he is on Job seeker allowance?
If he get back to work in the meantime, how long does he need to work before I make a fresh application?
As I ve been here for 6 years and working all those years, can I make a separate application not depending on my husband treaty right? for example British pass or indefinite leave to remain?
thanks a lot

[Choi Saab]

they cant deport you so easily so dont worry about it too much, just act now and make things right. dont waste time writing to them about deportation, thats just a standard template for pretty much all refusals.
you can make a fresh application as soon as employment starts and later send pay slips. remember your right to reside starts the day your eea spouse starts employment.

[ingridtjv]

... so I m not in the position to do anything for myself? I have been working for all those 5 years....

[noajthan]

... so I m not in the position to do anything for myself? I have been working for all those 5 years....

Your activities in UK are (from an immigration point of view) immaterial. You cannot exercise 'treaty rights' in your own right so your time in work cannot count towards acquiring PR.

It is your spouse/sponsor who has to be the qualified person who is exercising treaty rights (in one or other of the recognised categories).

It seems to have gone pear-shaped since around 2013 so not much your spouse can do about that now.
That is unless spouse qualified as a self-sufficient person (for which CSI would have been required - and no reliance on any state benefits) since 2013.

The only real solution to the weaknesses in your application is for sponsor to become fully economically active.
(Note: There is a time limit on sponsor being a jobseeker).
This would regularise your position in UK and also start the PR clock running again (for both of you).

[Richard W]

... so I m not in the position to do anything for myself? I have been working for all those 5 years....

That's irrelevant, as Noajthan pointed out while I was typing.

Your information is inconsistent. Did your husband work from 2006 to 2010 or from 2006 to 2013? If the latter, he acquired permanent residence in 2011 and you acquired permanent residence in 2015. Your application for permanent residence should have demonstrated that:

1) Your husband was working in the UK for 5 years starting in 2006.
2) You and your husband were resident in the UK from 2010 to 2015.

The period of his self-employment is currently irrelevant.

[noajthan]

It's a long shot but you seem to have said hubby was in UK and working from 2006 - 2010.

You then say he was working "until 2013".

As he is the EEA national there may be 5 continuous years in there somewhere in which he was a qualified person.
If so your spouse may well have acquired PR already.

That means no further need for him to exercise treaty rights after that.
And he can still be your sponsor.

So $64,000 question, what was hubby doing, exactly, from 2006 - 2013
And has he enjoyed any prolonged absences from UK at any time since 2006?

[ingridtjv]

Thank you Noajthan.
From 2006 to 2010 he was working continously
Then when back to university from sept 2010 til june 2012.
Then started self employement 2012 til 2014
He has also never been outsite drom uk for more than a week.
As Choi said earlier about the deportation do I dont really need to worry to much about it?
I was also thinking as I am working can I apply for naturalisation?
our response are so helfull thank you

[ingridtjv]

Thank you Richard.
I do appreciate all the guide
Anything that can help me with my current situation is more than welcome please
Thx

[noajthan]

Thank you Noajthan.
From 2006 to 2010 he was working continously
Then when back to university from sept 2010 til june 2012.
Then started self employement 2012 til 2014
He has also never been outsite drom uk for more than a week.
As Choi said earlier about the deportation do I dont really need to worry to much about it?
I was also thinking as I am working can I apply for naturalisation?
our response are so helfull thank you

As mentioned, your economic activity is not counted.

You cannot apply to naturalise as you don't have a confirmation of PR card!
- and getting that depends on sponsor's activity.

If sponsor had CSI (or foreign-issued EHIC or RC issued as a student) then those carefree student years can be counted as sponsor's PR clock will have kept running.

So its possible sponsor has acquired PR already.
If so, its likely that you have too.

If student years can't be counted (due to no CSI/EHIC/RC) then you will need to wait longer until PR is acquired.

PS Deportation is not on the table.
However HO does have the option of an 'administrative removal' procedure.

So - next step, see if you all have PR already. Check on documents from sponsor for any CSI/EHIC/student RC covering student years.

[ingridtjv]

Hi Noajthan Sorry to keep asking these
can i then apply for PR as soon as my husband get back to work?
What if it take longer (6months or more) for him to find a job?
Sorry but I just want to know what is urgent for us to do to solve this issue
Thanks

[noajthan]

Hi Noajthan Sorry to keep asking these
can i then apply for PR as soon as my husband get back to work?
What if it take longer (6months or more) for him to find a job?
Sorry but I just want to know what is urgent for us to do to solve this issue
Thanks

No, you cannot apply for confirmation of PR until hubby/sponsor has 5 continuous years of exercising treaty rights.

Husband can be a jobseeker type of qualified person; be aware HO are imposing time limits on jobseekers and are also applying their somewhat controversial 'gpow' test to jobseekers.

Have you checked about the health insurance (CSI/EHIC/RC) question?
if that turns up you may well have already acquired PR. Suggest find out asap.

[ingridtjv]

This is so confusing...
I m being trying to find out what CSI/EHIC/FC means but can find anything.
help please!
If husband can be a qualified person on Job seeker? Does that means i can apply for pr while he is looking for job?

[noajthan]

This is so confusing...
I m being trying to find out what CSI/EHIC/FC means but can find anything.
help please!
If husband can be a qualified person on Job seeker? Does that means i can apply for pr while he is looking for job?

CSI = comprehensive sickness insurance
EHIC = European health insurance card
RC = residence card

It depends if HO accept he is a valid jobseeker.

And you don't get PR just because sponsor happens to be a qualified person just at this present time; EEA sponsor has to have been a qualified person for 5 years continuously.
You know your timeline best of all so you can do the maths.

If hubby had CSI/EHIC/student RC then his student years can be bolted on to his early working years and, hey presto, he probably has acquired PR already.

If no such luck then sponsor's PR clock needs to keep on running a bit longer.
For example, if years 2013 or 2014 stopped the PR clock, and it only restarted in 2015 or 2016, then you may both acquire PR by sometime around 2020 or 2021.

[Richard W]

you can make a fresh application as soon as employment starts and later send pay slips. remember your right to reside starts the day your eea spouse starts employment.

Can a residence card (RC) be applied for on the basis of the husband's being a jobseeker? My reading of the regulations says that she can. I am not so much thinking of the benefit of having an RC, as the benefit of getting a positive C of A. I presume Ingridtjv got a positive C of A when she applied for the PRC, but her employer's consequent statutory excuse is about to expire.

If her husband does not find himself a job before it is time for a decision to be made on such a new application (November 2016), all four of them may be liable for administrative removal. I take it there is no child of the husband who attends school (primary or secondary) and is a member of the family. If there were, that should buy time via a derivative right of residence.

One possible solution, but I can't comment on its financial feasibility, is for the OP to get a job by which she can support the whole family without being eligible for benefits and buy them 'comprehensive sickness insurance', so that her husband is 'self-sufficient'. He would then be exercising treaty rights, so she would be entitled (CSI) to work, and earn enough to make her husband, along with the children, self-sufficient.

[Richard W]

RC = residence card

Or, for an EEA national, 'residence certificate', which is a different but largely equivalent document. I fear he needs to have obtained it as a student.

[ingridtjv]

Just found something about csi and it is a supporting documents for students and selfsuficient

[noajthan]

As mentioned, your economic activity is not counted.

You cannot apply to naturalise as you don't have a confirmation of PR card!
- and getting that depends on sponsor's activity.

If sponsor had CSI (or foreign-issued EHIC or RC issued as a student) then those carefree student years can be counted as sponsor's PR clock will have kept running.

So its possible sponsor has acquired PR already.
If so, its likely that you have too.

If student years can't be counted (due to no CSI/EHIC/RC) then you will need to wait longer until PR is acquired.

PS Deportation is not on the table.
However HO does have the option of an 'administrative removal' procedure.

So - next step, see if you all have PR already. Check on documents from sponsor for any CSI/EHIC/student RC covering student years.

Have you helped yourself out by checking for the documents

[ingridtjv]

Waou this is a serious matter!
The 4 years he woked from 2006 til 2010 doest count?

[Richard W]

The 4 years he woked from 2006 til 2010 doest count?

Not unless they are part of 5 years of 'continuous' residence in accordance with the EEA regulations.

There seem to be a lot of cases (but maybe they mostly come to this site) where the non-EEA spouse gets a job shortly after marriage and the EEA spouse (usually a wife) stops working. The Home Office doesn't seem to notice this at the time, but the problem comes to light when the non-EEA spouse applies for a permanent residence card.

[ingridtjv]

Waou this is a serious matter!
The 4 years he woked from 2006 til 2010 doest count?

Thank you so much for all your help.
I just read through and found the answers to my question below.
Dont really know where to start. It is more complicated than i though it was.

[ingridtjv]

The 4 years he woked from 2006 til 2010 doest count?

Not unless they are part of 5 years of 'continuous' residence in accordance with the EEA regulations.

There seem to be a lot of cases (but maybe they mostly come to this site) where the non-EEA spouse gets a job shortly after marriage and the EEA spouse (usually a wife) stops working. The Home Office doesn't seem to notice this at the time, but the problem comes to light when the non-EEA spouse applies for a permanent residence card.

Richard what can you suggest me to do?please