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Unmarried partner of EEA national

Use this section for any queries concerning the EU Settlement Scheme, for applicants holding pre-settled and settled status.

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Nazar jan123
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Unmarried partner of EEA national

Post by Nazar jan123 » Sun May 29, 2016 8:04 am

Hello every one.
Please I need help regarding my eea4 application.
I came to UK in 2008 and in 2009 I meet a EEA national .she is from Germany and we started living together my visa was on that time student. In 2010 I applied for unmarried partner of EEA national RC .she was working in 2010 and in august 2010 I applied for RC and I received my visa for 5 years in December 2010.in 2011 she stop working and I was the one doing work from 2011 to 2016.in 2013 she started started working for 3/years when I applied for eea4 in December 2016 and the home office refused my application because my EEA partner didn't use her treaty right for 2 years. I don't know what to do now please help me.

member
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Re: Unmarried partner of EEA national

Post by member » Sun May 29, 2016 8:33 am

Can't you apply for another EEA RC?

Nazar jan123
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Re: Unmarried partner of EEA national

Post by Nazar jan123 » Sun May 29, 2016 9:06 am

Thanks for your reply.
I can apply for another RC.bcz my EEA partner is working since 2103 as a self-employed and we both have comprehensive sickness insurance as well .we have all other documents such as bank statements and all utility bills on both names.
My question is when I sent my application for RC will they give me permission to work or I will be not allowed to work.2 question is do I have to wait another 5 years to apply for pr.

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Re: Unmarried partner of EEA national

Post by Casa » Sun May 29, 2016 9:12 am

My understanding is that if your partner had CSI for the period when she wasn't working, then she would qualify for having exercised her Treaty rights during this time. Were the HO aware that CSI was in place?
(Casa, not CR001)
Please don't send me PMs asking for immigration advice on posts that are on the open forum. If I haven't responded there, it's because I don't have the answer. I'm a moderator, not a legal professional.

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Re: Unmarried partner of EEA national

Post by Nazar jan123 » Sun May 29, 2016 9:37 am

My eea4 refused bcz in that 2 years gap both of us didn't hold any CSI .
Now she is self-employed and at the same time we have CSI .I didn't know that her works is so important I was working full time .

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Re: Unmarried partner of EEA national

Post by Casa » Sun May 29, 2016 9:48 am

Your employment is irrelevant. Your partner as the EEA national has show that she has been exercising her Treaty rights throughout the qualifying period.
(Casa, not CR001)
Please don't send me PMs asking for immigration advice on posts that are on the open forum. If I haven't responded there, it's because I don't have the answer. I'm a moderator, not a legal professional.

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Re: Unmarried partner of EEA national

Post by Nazar jan123 » Sun May 29, 2016 10:00 am

Tkank you very much casa.
One last question plz
What documents do I need to submit with eea2 application. Will they sent COA with right to work.thanks

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Re: Unmarried partner of EEA national

Post by Casa » Sun May 29, 2016 10:11 am

https://www.gov.uk/apply-for-a-uk-resid ... d/overview

I'll let someone else advise on the issue of a COA/right to work.
(Casa, not CR001)
Please don't send me PMs asking for immigration advice on posts that are on the open forum. If I haven't responded there, it's because I don't have the answer. I'm a moderator, not a legal professional.

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Re: Unmarried partner of EEA national

Post by Carling40 » Sun May 29, 2016 10:35 am

Nazar jan123 wrote:Tkank you very much casa.
One last question plz
What documents do I need to submit with eea2 application. Will they sent COA with right to work.thanks
Hi Nazar jan123
Am afraid in an unmarried partner EEA2 application the COA will not have right to work until the application has been decided.

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Re: Unmarried partner of EEA national

Post by noajthan » Sun May 29, 2016 11:56 am

Nazar jan123 wrote:Thanks for your reply.
I can apply for another RC.bcz my EEA partner is working since 2103 as a self-employed and we both have comprehensive sickness insurance as well .we have all other documents such as bank statements and all utility bills on both names.
My question is when I sent my application for RC will they give me permission to work or I will be not allowed to work.2 question is do I have to wait another 5 years to apply for pr.
Good hard-working but worried people, there's a fundamental misunderstanding going on here.

The COA is not about permission to work :!:

:arrow: A COA is all about demonstrating a proof of a right to work to anyone who wants to see such a proof.

:idea: The right to work may still be there (by virtue of someone's sponsor being a qualified person).
:arrow: So no COA does not necessarily mean working is illegal or prohibited.

No COA does not mean someone cannot work.
It just makes it harder to prove the right exists if someone needs to know.

If an unsympathetic or risk-averse (or plain ignorant) employer suspends or fires someone due to no COA then there is legal recourse.
See https://www.freemovement.org.uk/sponsor ... dismissal/
(We are not savages).

Health warning:
Ofcourse if someone on the EU migration trajectory does not have a legitimate EEA sponsor who is a qualified person exercising treaty rights that is a different kettle of fish.

If that is the case (after the first three months 'grace period' in UK) then neither the sponsor or dependents has any right to reside, work or study in UK :!:

You can dig into these vital matters in HO guidance on COA to be found here:
https://www.gov.uk/government/uploads/s ... s_v3_0.pdf
All that is gold does not glitter; Not all those who wander are lost. E&OE.

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Re: Unmarried partner of EEA national

Post by noajthan » Sun May 29, 2016 12:07 pm

Nazar jan123 wrote:Thanks for your reply.
I can apply for another RC.bcz my EEA partner is working since 2103 as a self-employed and we both have comprehensive sickness insurance as well .
...

.2 question is do I have to wait another 5 years to apply for pr.
If sponsor has been working since 2013 and continues to do so then the earlist you may acquire PR is 5 years from then. So looks like sometime in 2018 or thereabouts.

That is assuming you remain married (to each other), there is no Brexit and you don't have any prolonged absences from UK (& haven't enjoyed any in the past).

Note CSI is not required (for EU PR purposes) by a truly self-employed qualified person.
All that is gold does not glitter; Not all those who wander are lost. E&OE.

Nazar jan123
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Re: Unmarried partner of EEA national

Post by Nazar jan123 » Sun May 29, 2016 12:32 pm

Hi,noujthan
I appreciated your help.
Iam unmarried partner of EEA national.
Home office accepted all the documents we provided about my EEA partner Self-employed Work from 2013 till to date..but I got the CSI To have more proof.now I have to start everything from start to apply for other eea2.

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Re: Unmarried partner of EEA national

Post by secret.simon » Sun May 29, 2016 4:36 pm

Nazar jan123 wrote:.in 2011 she stop working and I was the one doing work from 2011 to 2016.in 2013 she started started working for 3/years when I applied for eea4 in December 2016
Nazar jan123 wrote:My eea4 refused bcz in that 2 years gap both of us didn't hold any CSI .
That part is correct as she needs to have exercised treaty rights for five continuous years and she had not done so.
noajthan wrote:If an unsympathetic or risk-averse (or plain ignorant) employer suspends or fires someone due to no COA then there is legal recourse.
See https://www.freemovement.org.uk/sponsor ... dismissal/
(We are not savages).
I do not think that this would be the correct case to refer to.

For direct Family Members, their right to work is generated by their relationship to the EEA citizen and the COA and RC are merely evidentairy of their right to work.

But, in the case of EFMs, I believe that the right to work is generated by the Residence Card, which is pretty much what the COA that is issued to them confirms (that they have no right to work until the RC is issued).

The case that you referred to was that of a spouse, a direct Family Member. The OP is an EFM and I submit that he does not have the right to work in the absence of a currently valid RC.
I am not a lawyer or immigration advisor. My statements/comments do not constitute legal advice. E&OE. Please do not PM me for advice.

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Re: Unmarried partner of EEA national

Post by noajthan » Sun May 29, 2016 5:05 pm

secret.simon wrote:...
I do not think that this would be the correct case to refer to.

For direct Family Members, their right to work is generated by their relationship to the EEA citizen and the COA and RC are merely evidentairy of their right to work.

But, in the case of EFMs, I believe that the right to work is generated by the Residence Card, which is pretty much what the COA that is issued to them confirms (that they have no right to work until the RC is issued).

The case that you referred to was that of a spouse, a direct Family Member. The OP is an EFM and I submit that he does not have the right to work in the absence of a currently valid RC.
@Simon,
The case was shown to illustrate that all is not lost in these cases, people due have employment rights and that a legal intervention can succeed.
I didn't intend to suggest the particular case is the specific case law to invoke every time.

My understanding is if an EFM is found wanting and fails to produce enough supporting evidence to earn the issue of a RC then yes, they are in the danger zone. It is the end of the road for them and they may be subject to the HO's administrative procedure for removal and so on.

However until that occurs the case is not proven; as I see it, EU rights are generally positive and enabling rather than negative and restrictive.
Hence my positive interpretation as a layman (not legal professional) on the matter.

I suspect there's a difference between the position under EU law and how UK chooses to treat and facilitate EFM guests/migrants in the UK.
This Directive shall apply to all Union citizens who move to or reside in a Member State other than that of which they are a national, and to their family members as defined in point 2 of Article 2 who accompany or join them.

2. Without prejudice to any right to free movement and residence the persons concerned may have in their own right, the host Member State shall, in accordance with its national legislation, facilitate entry and residence for the following persons:
...
(b) the partner with whom the Union citizen has a durable relationship, duly attested.

The host Member State shall undertake an extensive examination of the personal circumstances and shall justify any denial of entry or residence to these people.
This judge's musings puts it well...
88. I...

Equally, it is an important aspect of Community law relating to the right to free movement of persons that since that right is one of the “founding freedoms” established by the Treaty, it is to be given a broad meaning and conditions and limitations placed upon it must be narrowly construed. As expressed in recital 14, in relation to the supporting documentation required by the competent authorities for the issuing of a registration certificate or of a residence card, these “should be comprehensively specified in order to avoid divergent administrative practices or interpretations constituting an undue obstacle to the exercise of the right of residence by Union citizens and their family members”.
...

89. However, none of these requirements shift the burden of proof from the applicant or appellant and, where there is any lessening of the requirement to prove certain facts, this are the subject of specific provision. In the absence of such specific provision, it is clear that it is an underlying principle of Community law that Member States are entitled under their national laws to require appellants to prove they possess the EU rights they claim.

...

90. What the above means for applicants and appellants seeking to rely on EEA rights is that unless able to point to a specific provision of Community law limiting the need to produce evidence, applicants and appellants must expect that a failure to produce relevant evidence may well mean that the decision in their case will be a negative one, based on their failure to substantiate that they have any EEA right.
Ref https://tribunalsdecisions.service.gov.uk/utiac/37852

I do recall one member's reported case (earlier this year) that hinged on case law and a judge rejecting HO insistence on a RC for establishing an EFM's rights. Unfortunately I've not been able to find that post again (yet).
All that is gold does not glitter; Not all those who wander are lost. E&OE.

Nazar jan123
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Re: Unmarried partner of EEA national

Post by Nazar jan123 » Mon May 30, 2016 12:44 am

Thanks to all members.
please my question is when iam applying for RC do I need include all the five years proof of residency because I got all the paperwork.will they be quick .when I applied for eea4 HO took more than 5 months to refused the application.thanks

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Re: Unmarried partner of EEA national

Post by noajthan » Mon May 30, 2016 11:02 pm

Nazar jan123 wrote:Thanks to all members.
please my question is when iam applying for RC do I need include all the five years proof of residency because I got all the paperwork.will they be quick .when I applied for eea4 HO took more than 5 months to refused the application.thanks
No, not 5 years as you are now applying for a RC (not confirmation of PR).

Submit evidence your sponsor is exercising treaty rights and both of you are living in UK.

I can't comment on timelines, suggest track other members' experiences in one of the timeline threads.
Your mileage may vary ofcourse.
All that is gold does not glitter; Not all those who wander are lost. E&OE.

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Re: Unmarried partner of EEA national

Post by Nazar jan123 » Wed Jun 01, 2016 6:20 pm

Hi.
My appeal time is over its 2 weeks now.today I went to solicitor to tell him that I will apply for another eea2 RC.the solicitor told me that u can't apply for another eea2 bcz u already had one.he told me that we will apply again for pr with fresh documents. I don't know what to do now.plz help me.is the solicitor is right?or can I apply for RC ?solicitor said that home office will refused my RC bcz I jump from pr to RC. But the pr is already refused. Thanks for every one help

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Re: Unmarried partner of EEA national

Post by noajthan » Wed Jun 01, 2016 6:36 pm

Nazar jan123 wrote:Hi.
My appeal time is over its 2 weeks now.today I went to solicitor to tell him that I will apply for another eea2 RC.the solicitor told me that u can't apply for another eea2 bcz u already had one.he told me that we will apply again for pr with fresh documents. I don't know what to do now.plz help me.is the solicitor is right?or can I apply for RC ?solicitor said that home office will refused my RC bcz I jump from pr to RC. But the pr is already refused. Thanks for every one help
You have already explained you do not have a valid RC. It will have expired last December.
... in august 2010 I applied for RC and I received my visa for 5 years in December 2010
So you can apply for a RC - you are not limited to having just one RC (ever).

You also need to have a valid RC as you are an EFM.
And you cannot apply for confirmation of PR as you have already explained partner has gaps in exercising treaty rights.

How much is solicitor charging for this advice and to file applications? You may wish to dig into that.
All that is gold does not glitter; Not all those who wander are lost. E&OE.

Nazar jan123
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Re: Unmarried partner of EEA national

Post by Nazar jan123 » Wed Jun 01, 2016 6:44 pm

noajthan wrote:
Nazar jan123 wrote:Hi.
My appeal time is over its 2 weeks now.today I went to solicitor to tell him that I will apply for another eea2 RC.the solicitor told me that u can't apply for another eea2 bcz u already had one.he told me that we will apply again for pr with fresh documents. I don't know what to do now.plz help me.is the solicitor is right?or can I apply for RC ?solicitor said that home office will refused my RC bcz I jump from pr to RC. But the pr is already refused. Thanks for every one help
You have already explained you do not have a valid RC. It will have expired last December.
... in august 2010 I applied for RC and I received my visa for 5 years in December 2010
So you can apply for a RC - you are not limited to having just one RC (ever).

You also need to have a valid RC as you are an EFM.
And you cannot apply for confirmation of PR as you have already explained partner has gaps in exercising treaty rights.

How much is solicitor charging for this advice and to file applications? You may wish to dig into that.
Thanks very much for your quick reply.
Now my RC expired. Why I can't apply for RC again? The solicitor will charge £700.

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Re: Unmarried partner of EEA national

Post by noajthan » Wed Jun 01, 2016 6:48 pm

Nazar jan123 wrote:Thanks very much for your quick reply.
Now my RC expired. Why I can't apply for RC again? The solicitor will charge £700.
As I said, my understanding is you can apply.

You do not need to pay £700.
You can apply by yourself. People here in forum can help.

The RC fee is £65 plus cost of biometrics.
Make sure you have good and recent evidence of sponsor exercising treaty rights.
All that is gold does not glitter; Not all those who wander are lost. E&OE.

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Re: Unmarried partner of EEA national

Post by Nazar jan123 » Wed Jun 01, 2016 7:26 pm

noajthan wrote:
Nazar jan123 wrote:Thanks very much for your quick reply.
Now my RC expired. Why I can't apply for RC again? The solicitor will charge £700.
As I said, my understanding is you can apply.

You do not need to pay £700.
You can apply by yourself. People here in forum can help.

The RC fee is £65 plus cost of biometrics.
Make sure you have good and recent evidence of sponsor exercising treaty rights.
I have all the documents her self-employed papers and even we have CSI for both of us.the problem is my if I apply my self I need a covering letter plus to fill the form.

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Re: Unmarried partner of EEA national

Post by noajthan » Wed Jun 01, 2016 8:20 pm

Nazar jan123 wrote:I have all the documents her self-employed papers and even we have CSI for both of us.the problem is my if I apply my self I need a covering letter plus to fill the form.
Sounds like you are all set.
You don't really need a covering letter - just fill in the form.
You can try to apply yourself - see how you get on.

If you need support suggest contacting a migrant support group or a community law centre or the local CAB in your area.
You should not need to pay anyone £700 unless you really really wish to do so.
All that is gold does not glitter; Not all those who wander are lost. E&OE.

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Re: Unmarried partner of EEA national

Post by Nazar jan123 » Mon Jun 06, 2016 5:47 pm

noajthan wrote:
Nazar jan123 wrote:I have all the documents her self-employed papers and even we have CSI for both of us.the problem is my if I apply my self I need a covering letter plus to fill the form.
Sounds like you are all set.
You don't really need a covering letter - just fill in the form.
You can try to apply yourself - see how you get on.

If you need support suggest contacting a migrant support group or a community law centre or the local CAB in your area.
You should not need to pay anyone £700 unless you really really wish to do so.
Thanks for your helpful advice.
I went to migrant support group today I told them my situation.they said they r only for refugees your case is deferent from refugees case.I just want a cover letter and fill the form.I don't know the solicitor just taking slots of money.

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Re: Unmarried partner of EEA national

Post by noajthan » Mon Jun 06, 2016 6:37 pm

Nazar jan123 wrote:Thanks for your helpful advice.
I went to migrant support group today I told them my situation.they said they r only for refugees your case is deferent from refugees case.I just want a cover letter and fill the form.I don't know the solicitor just taking slots of money.
Doh! That seems quite silly.
How about next in the list, try: community law centre or CAB?

I don't think you really need a cover letter.
What do you think you need to explain that isn't covered in the application form?
All that is gold does not glitter; Not all those who wander are lost. E&OE.

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Re: Unmarried partner of EEA national

Post by Nazar jan123 » Sat Jun 11, 2016 8:28 am

Hi, noajthan
Thanks for your advice.
Now Iam trying to apply myself.but in cover letter shall I mention my pr refusal reason?bcz now iam applying for eea2 to tell tham that this was the reason iam applying again for RC.and shall I mention the CSI in cover letter or just write it in supporting documents list?
Thanks

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