EEA PR question

[silentsoul]

Hi,

I'm just about to send my application for permanent residency based on working for 5 continuous years (actually 6.5) and hoped that someone with more experience could help me out with a few things that are not clear enough at the moment...

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Basically my simplified story is (EU8 citizen - Hungary):

- Arrived to the UK 29.12.2009. Registered for WRS and started working on 14.01.2010 for employer 'A'.

- In 06.2016 (while still working full time for employer 'A') I set up my company and started working as self-employed

- My full time employment (with employer 'A') ended on 15.10.2010 then started working for employer 'B' on 01.10.2010. Unfortunately that time I did not re-register my WRS as I did not know about this requirement... I know... BUT my self-employed status was still active!

- On 23.09.2011 my employment ended with employer 'B' and started right away with employer 'C' whom I'm still to date working for.

- On 28.11.2011 I ended my self-employment and became 'simple' full-time worker again.

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Could any of you please help what I should include in my application? As far as I know I can't include employer 'B' since I did not re-register WRS for them and therefore it wouldn't count for PR, but my self-employment should cover up that gap if I'm correct.

Should I even mention employer 'B' in the application or shall I just add proof from employer 'A' + self-employment + employer 'C'?

As you may see I'm getting very confused at this point...

Thanks very much in advance to anybody who will try to help.

[secret.simon]

Was the self-employment "genuine and effective" and not "marginal and ancillary"?

[silentsoul]

Well... as it was my secondary job I'd say it was rather "marginal and ancillary".

[secret.simon]

I think the definition of "Genuine and effective" or "marginal and ancillary" is more fluid than that. It takes into account the number of hours worked, the amount earned, etc. While there is no threshold, it should not be so little that not earning that amount would make no difference to your life. There was a better definition somewhere on these forums but I can't find it.

If it was "marginal and ancillary", that employment (self or otherwise) does not count. Only "genuine and effective" (self-)employment counts.

[silentsoul]

I see what you're saying. It was nothing compared to a proper salary I'm afraid.

Obviously I'm not happy about it but it's understandable. Even though I did not know, It was my fault not re-registering WRS for employer 'B' thus losing a lot of time'...

So basically my options at the moment are:
1, relying on the 30.04.2011 - present period in my application, though I don't know if that'd work since it was apparently illegal when I started working for employer 'B'... Does the abolition of WRS in 30.04.2011 make it legal?

2, wait a few more months and base my application on the 23.09.2011 (employer 'C') - present period.

[noajthan]

Was the self-employment genuine and effective? That's the test laid down by EU law.

You can dig into that vital question here by getting into the head of the caseworker who will assess and weigh your case:
https://www.gov.uk/government/uploads/s ... _clean.pdf
- page 11+ & 18+

You can see a student working in a bar a few hours a week (or someone messing about selling stuff on eBay or etc) is not a worker/self-employed..

Be aware the UK may also, retrospectively, apply its PET/MET tests to assess the work and whether it thinks you were a worker.
This is not compliant with EU law but it happens.

On PET/MET, read and weep:
https://www.freemovement.org.uk/using-m ... ne-worker/

Worst case: your PR clock only started when WRS ended (April 2011). So your PR clock would have been running from May 2011.
If so you could have acquired PR in May 2016 (as a worker).

Your employer technically committed an offence by employing improperly registered worker/s but after the end of WRS it didn't matter.

If using the official form you need to fill it in bearing in mind the Declaration you have to sign.
Fill in details for all time periods. The caseworker will figure out what's relevant and what she will disregard.
You can also add a cogent cover letter to point out your qualifying period.

btw - the current 'monster' form is not a mandatory legal requirement; you could use an earlier (simpler) version.

[silentsoul]

Thank you. It's getting a lot clearer now... So I think what I'm gonna do is play clear and tell them about my whole last 6.5 years with all employers and self-employment. Then they get to decide which period qualifies...

If that's the case and I do get my PR card eventually, how would I know from what date they started counting my 5 years?

[noajthan]

Thank you. It's getting a lot clearer now... So I think what I'm gonna do is play clear and tell them about my whole last 6.5 years with all employers and self-employment. Then they get to decide which period qualifies...

If that's the case and I do get my PR card eventually, how would I know from what date they started counting my 5 years?

Good question.
You won't know for sure as its not on the card.

Members have reported that NCS have a hotline to HO & so can check with HO when they go to apply to naturalise.
Other members have reported that a SAR obtained from UKVI shows the date (but not all SARs do).

See https://www.gov.uk/government/publicati ... mmigration