Breach of Immigration Law and Naturalisation

[wadda_laura]

I want to ask if there is any effect of breach of immigration law of past on the current naturalisation application. A person broke his immigration condition of student visa in 2008 and left UK voluntarily after exercising first and upper tribunal appeal rights. After two years [(under 320 (7B)] he re-entered as Tier 1 (G) and now on ILR for more than 12 months. If he applies for naturalisation now, will he be affected by that breach of immigration law of past of his 1st tenure stay as it falls within 10 years or he will be ok as his stay is started again and he has no breach in his 5 years residence period. I need solid informations regarding it, please, if possible. Thanx in advance.

[noajthan]

I want to ask if there is any effect of breach of immigration law of past on the current naturalisation application. A person broke his immigration condition of student visa in 2008 and left UK voluntarily after exercising first and upper tribunal appeal rights. After two years [(under 320 (7B)] he re-entered as Tier 1 (G) and now on ILR for more than 12 months. If he applies for naturalisation now, will he be affected by that breach of immigration law of past of his 1st tenure stay as it falls within 10 years or he will be ok as his stay is started again and he has no breach in his 5 years residence period. I need solid informations regarding it, please, if possible. Thanx in advance.

Yes, naturally there are consequences.

Is this solid enough for you:
https://www.gov.uk/government/uploads/s ... _D_v02.pdf

[wadda_laura]

Just came to know now that the person has made application few days ago through NCS. Can you please let me know how he can withdraw his application in the light of your above answer. Also can you please let me know when he can apply for naturalisation? Will his out of UK stay (2.5 Years started in Mid-2008 to Jan-2011) be counted in breach of law period or disregarded?
Regards,

[Wanderer]

Just came to know now that the person has made application few days ago through NCS. Can you please let me know how he can withdraw his application in the light of your above answer. Also can you please let me know when he can apply for naturalisation? Will his out of UK stay (2.5 Years started in Mid-2008 to Jan-2011) be counted in breach of law period or disregarded?
Regards,

I think it's 10 years after first becoming legal.

[imnewhere]

Fees would not be refunded. if i wanted to withdraw, i will try to withraw but the same time cancel my bank card!

[noajthan]

Just came to know now that the person has made application few days ago through NCS. Can you please let me know how he can withdraw his application in the light of your above answer. Also can you please let me know when he can apply for naturalisation? Will his out of UK stay (2.5 Years started in Mid-2008 to Jan-2011) be counted in breach of law period or disregarded?
Regards,

Sections 8 & 9 of linked document explain the basis of timelines for any bans.

Fees not refunded on withdrawal.

If this was obvious from the application or course of NCS interview, its slightly surprising NCS did not explore all this with the applicant at the time. Worst case they should have sacrificed the NCS fee, not the full fee.

[imnewhere]

Because of bag log , probably fee not deducted if you truly wanted to withdraw application.

When i went to NCS, they didnt talk about breach of immigration law either! perhaps lack of awareness. they focused on criminality etc

[wadda_laura]

He has noticed fee has not been deducted yet. He has reported the card lost. Should he now follow the withdraw option given online @ www.gov.uk? or application would be sent back as invalid and it will not affect adversely?

[Wanderer]

He has noticed fee has not been deducted yet. He has reported the card lost. Should he now follow the withdraw option given online @ http://www.gov.uk? or application would be sent back as invalid and it will not affect adversely?

Is the card really lost or this another item to add to the litany of deceit?

[noajthan]

Was there further deception practised during acquisition of the Tier 1 (G) and ILR status? That would push the window of opportunity for the privilege of citizenship even further back.

[wadda_laura]

Lost. Should she withdraw now or have to wait for application sent back as invalid.

[wadda_laura]

Was there further deception practised during acquisition of the Tier 1 (G) and ILR status? That would push the window of opportunity for the privilege of citizenship even further back.

No. All the applications have no deception at all. Even in initial application it was declared that visa condition was breached in 2008.

[Wanderer]

Lost. Should she withdraw now or have to wait for application sent back as invalid.

He/she? Come on, we didn't fall off the Christmas Tree and neither did the UKVI...

I call bullshit.

[wadda_laura]

He. Sorry for spelling mistakes. But issue is not he or she. Bull shit eyes will see bull shit everywhere.

[Wanderer]

He. Sorry for spelling mistakes. But issue is not he or she. Bull shit eyes will see bull shit everywhere.

And losing the card at a fortuitous time?

Sniff, sniff....

[wadda_laura]

He. Sorry for spelling mistakes. But issue is not he or she. Bull shit eyes will see bull shit everywhere.

And losing the card at a fortuitous time?

Sniff, sniff....

@wanderer:
What do you think my husband should pay the fee £1236 for nothing or even for refusal.

[Wanderer]

He. Sorry for spelling mistakes. But issue is not he or she. Bull shit eyes will see bull shit everywhere.

And losing the card at a fortuitous time?

Sniff, sniff....

@wanderer:
What do you think my husband should pay the fee £1236 for nothing or even for refusal.

It's not that.

People don't like me on this board because I post as me but from a UKVI POV, I err on caution, I do not sugar-coat, and I feel that the law is the law, and that's it. Whether its fair or not or right or wrong or not, it's the law, full stop.

But there's also reading between the lines, which is not the law but influences people's opines, and I can see it here, and most likely so will the UKVI, not for sure, but a good chance.

For me, I go 100% with the law, I don't like it because the law is an mule, as we all know, but there is no doubt, follow it to the letter and there's no issues like this.

[ni_uk]

I have heard that case worker can use discretion if applicant has not broken immigration law in the qualifying period. In your mentioned case there is no breach of law in the qualifying period. To me, 10 years rule is more likely to do with the refugees or asylum seekers, not for the persons having legal entries. In your case the both entries were legal.
Hope some experienced members like Amber, Vinny, ctg95, CR001 can shed more light on it and this will guide you appropriately.

[noajthan]

I have heard that case worker can use discretion if applicant has not broken immigration law in the qualifying period. In your mentioned case there is no breach of law in the qualifying period. To me, 10 years rule is more likely to do with the refugees or asylum seekers, not for the persons having legal entries. In your case the both entries were legal.
Hope some experienced members like Amber, Vinny, ctg95, CR001 can shed more light on it and this will guide you appropriately.

The above guidance (used by caseworkers) is clear, one of the "qualifying periods" (as you put it) in assessing naturalisation applicants is 10 years.

And good character is always assessed on the balance of probabilities.

[cs95tdg]

Also can you please let me know when he can apply for naturalisation? Will his out of UK stay (2.5 Years started in Mid-2008 to Jan-2011) be counted in breach of law period or disregarded?

The 10 year period considered when assessing whether he has met the good character requirement will be counted back from the application date. So you can establish when he would be eligible based in this. If he has been in breach of immigration rules in 2008, then it's clear that he would not meet those requirements now, I.e. In 2016, as 10 years have not yet lapsed.

Read the guidance that noajthan has shared to get a clear understanding of the requirements.

[noajthan]

Related case as fyi:
http://www.immigrationboards.com/britis ... l#p1374818

[wadda_laura]

Also can you please let me know when he can apply for naturalisation? Will his out of UK stay (2.5 Years started in Mid-2008 to Jan-2011) be counted in breach of law period or disregarded?

The 10 year period considered when assessing whether he has met the good character requirement will be counted back from the application date. So you can establish when he would be eligible based in this. If he has been in breach of immigration rules in 2008, then it's clear that he would not meet those requirements now, I.e. In 2016, as 10 years have not yet lapsed.
Read the guidance that noajthan has shared to get a clear understanding of the requirements.

@cs95tdg
If I ask on what he will be eligible, would it be 10 yrs from leaving the country or 10 yrs from re-entry. I called home office three times to know this. All the times I got different answer. One said it should not affect as both periods are disconnected. Second said it will be 10 from date of leaving country. Third said it would be 10 years from date of re-entry. Dont know who was right and who was wrong. We are confused about it. In the link provided by naojthan, it does not say any anything about when the 10 years will start. Your kind response would be much appreciated.

[Casa]

Another example of why advice given on the UKVI 'help line' can be trusted.
https://www.freemovement.org.uk/immigra ... pectation/

[wadda_laura]

Thanx for the link. That is why we want to know the date of eligibility as we dont trust telephonic information with home office. In the good character requirement guidance they have used the word "Preceding". Our understanding says the eligibility date should be 2018 (10 yrs after leaving country) rather than 10 years form re-entry. I have copied the exact words form that guidance as 9.7 Evasion of immigration control
The decision maker will normally refuse an application if within the 10 years preceding the application the person has not been compliant with immigration requirements, including but not limited to having:
a. failed to report
b. failed to comply with any conditions imposed under the Immigration Acts
c. been detected working in the UK without permission

We just want to make sure we have right information to avoid future refusals.

[cs95tdg]

Thanx for the link. That is why we want to know the date of eligibility as we dont trust telephonic information with home office. In the good character requirement guidance they have used the word "Preceding". Our understanding says the eligibility date should be 2018 (10 yrs after leaving country) rather than 10 years form re-entry. I have copied the exact words form that guidance as 9.7 Evasion of immigration control
The decision maker will normally refuse an application if within the 10 years preceding the application the person has not been compliant with immigration requirements, including but not limited to having:
a. failed to report
b. failed to comply with any conditions imposed under the Immigration Acts
c. been detected working in the UK without permission

We just want to make sure we have right information to avoid future refusals.

That's the way I would personally interpret the guidance, as well. As I mentioned before... once the HO receive the application they will check the applicant's 10 year immigration history from that date. You establish the date in reverse, rather than looking at it from the perspective of 'when you left the country' or 'when you last entered the country'.

As you haven't shared anything further as to the nature of immigration non-compliance and what occurred thereafter, it would be difficult to comment further.

If I were in your shoes, I'd make a SAR to ensure I have a clear view of his immigration history details held by the HO. That should give you a clear idea of when to apply.

I agree with Casa on not relying on information given over telephone conversations. It's a waist of time and effort.