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Entering the UK as BC without British passport

A section for posts relating to applications for Naturalisation or Registration as a British Citizen. Naturalisation

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mmumpitz
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Entering the UK as BC without British passport

Post by mmumpitz » Wed Aug 10, 2016 1:29 pm

Hi,

My wife is an Argentine citizen and has just become a British citizen as well and received her naturalization certificate. She has cut up her ILR and waiting for her British passport. She now needs to travel for a week.

She can travel on her Argentine passport but how can she re-enter the country?
- On her Argentine passport? Would that be an issue? She'll travel again before 90 days, so wouldn't overstay her 90 days (which don't apply, since she's a BC).
- With her naturalization certificate? Would that be accepted? Would it need to be the original or would a copy do?

Many thanks!

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Casa
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Re: Entering the UK as BC without British passport

Post by Casa » Wed Aug 10, 2016 1:51 pm

The airline is unlikely to permit her boarding on the return journey. If she does manage to make it to the UK Border, much depends on the mood of the IO.
I assume by 'cutting up her ILR' you mean she has cut up her BRP and returned it to the HO?
(Casa, not CR001)
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Re: Entering the UK as BC without British passport

Post by Richard W » Wed Aug 10, 2016 7:24 pm

Casa wrote:The airline is unlikely to permit her boarding on the return journey.
That must be progress. :( Before, as a non-visa national, the OP could reasonably have expected to reach a British airport. Why do you, Casa, expect the UK to order her to be denied boarding?

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Re: Entering the UK as BC without British passport

Post by Casa » Wed Aug 10, 2016 7:35 pm

Airline security has tightened considerably and without a travel document with the valid entry an airline will avoid the risk of a considerable fine if the passenger is denied entry to the UK.
However, after I posted my reply I lost connection and have since been able to check that Argentinians are non-visa nationals. Hopefully the IO will be in a co-operative mood.
(Casa, not CR001)
Please don't send me PMs asking for immigration advice on posts that are on the open forum. If I haven't responded there, it's because I don't have the answer. I'm a moderator, not a legal professional.

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Re: Entering the UK as BC without British passport

Post by Richard W » Wed Aug 10, 2016 8:03 pm

This is one of the rare cases where a naturalisation certificate should be fine for the first return, even if the IO strictly follows the instructions as last presented to the public.

The OP may use her naturalisation certificate to prove that she is a British national. As she is only returning home for a brief period, she is not coming to settle(!), and therefore, as a British national, does not need a visa. (Working might, theoretically, be an issue.) She should therefore be admitted until at least the planned time of her next trip, if she can present evidence of it. No discretion is needed!

On current form, the most likely outcome is that she will simply be accepted as a British citizen, and allowed in on that basis.

Your next question is how quickly she can get her British passport, and, if not in time, how quickly she can get her Argentine passport back from the Passport Office.. I trust she intends to have the same name in her British passport as her Argentine passport.

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Re: Entering the UK as BC without British passport

Post by secret.simon » Wed Aug 10, 2016 9:41 pm

Richard W wrote:The OP may use her naturalisation certificate to prove that she is a British national.
I might being a bit pedantic, but why do you think that a naturalisation certificate proves status as a British national and not as a British citizen?

A naturalisation certificate issued to a new British citizen clearly states that the person would be a "British citizen" from the date on the certificate.

Image

Image sourced from this interesting article on the immigration journey for a non-EEA citizen, who naturalised in 2014.
I am not a lawyer or immigration advisor. My statements/comments do not constitute legal advice. E&OE. Please do not PM me for advice.

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Re: Entering the UK as BC without British passport

Post by Richard W » Thu Aug 11, 2016 7:11 pm

secret.simon wrote:
Richard W wrote:The OP may use her naturalisation certificate to prove that she is a British national.
I might being a bit pedantic, but why do you think that a naturalisation certificate proves status as a British national and not as a British citizen?
I think pedantry is entirely appropriate to worst case scenarios.

The problem is Section 3(9) of the Immigration Act 1971, which currently says:
A person seeking to enter the United Kingdom and claiming to have the right of abode there shall prove it by means of—

(a) a United Kingdom passport describing him as a British citizen,

(b) a United Kingdom passport describing him as a British subject with the right of abode in the United Kingdom,

(c) an ID card issued under the Identity Cards Act 2006 describing him as a British citizen,

(d) an ID card issued under that Act describing him as a British subject with the right of abode in the United Kingdom, or

(e) a certificate of entitlement.
There is no mention there of a naturalisation certificate.

Immigration Directorate instructions used to say that anyone who could prove that they were a British citizen should be treated as a British national. I can't find modernised guidance on the issue.

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Re: Entering the UK as BC without British passport

Post by mmumpitz » Fri Aug 12, 2016 1:30 pm

Thanks all for the answers.

- Argentines don't need a visa to enter the UK, so airline won't be an issue
- She is now a British Citizen as per her certificate
- Certificate and (Argentine) passport are in the same name - passport is with her, not with the Home Office
(- And yes, she has sent her ILR back to the home office)

It's interesting that (as I read it) there doesn't seem to be clear guidance around this case. We will risk it and go to the IO asking him if she should enter on the naturalization certificate or her Argentine passport. I just cannot imagine that she would be sent back, given that she has a legal way to enter AND is a British citizen (maybe they'll send her back to the Rest of World queue though... :-) ).

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Re: Entering the UK as BC without British passport

Post by Casa » Fri Aug 12, 2016 1:40 pm

...or she may have to sit in the naughty corner for a while. :|
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Re: Entering the UK as BC without British passport

Post by BIG Dobby » Wed Aug 24, 2016 11:34 pm

I am just wondering 'why' u raised it as an issue if Argentinians do NOT need visa to enter the UK.

MY ANSWER:

Border control officers do not know you are naturalised as it depends on the authority of the officers to see secret details. They can only see passport details and immigration status.

It happened to me when I was stopped by Border Official Jan 2016 when I told them I was British she told me she could not access it.

Hope this helps

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Re: Entering the UK as BC without British passport

Post by secret.simon » Thu Aug 25, 2016 10:17 am

It is not improbable that all Border Force officials would not be able to access naturalisation records.

But I would imagine that they would have a hotline or access to a person or department that would, and that they would be able to verify it even though it may take some time.

The scenario I envisage is not dissimilar to that of an NCS official who can not see the date an EEA citizen has attained PR status, but who can call a dedicated phone number to verify it.
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Re: Entering the UK as BC without British passport

Post by Wanderer » Thu Aug 25, 2016 10:31 am

Just a question for my own interest. If she enters on Argentinian passport, would she not be stamped as a visitor, and therefore technically overstay after 6 months?

I think it's been said here that British Citizens cannot be admitted as visitors, but can you be on your other nationality if a dual national?

I know this is just pedantry on my part, just I am interested!
An chéad stad eile Stáisiún Uí Chonghaile....

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Re: Entering the UK as BC without British passport

Post by BIG Dobby » Fri Aug 26, 2016 9:52 am

Wanderer wrote:Just a question for my own interest. If she enters on Argentinian passport, would she not be stamped as a visitor, and therefore technically overstay after 6 months?

I think it's been said here that British Citizens cannot be admitted as visitors, but can you be on your other nationality if a dual national?

I know this is just pedantry on my part, just I am interested!
s/he has dual citizenship. I dont think its gonna be a problem. Regarding my case I dont want to give full detail of my circumstances. However, The Border officer told me she could not see that I was naturalised but later she granted me admission into the country (UK).

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Re: Entering the UK as BC without British passport

Post by Richard W » Sun Aug 28, 2016 12:02 pm

Wanderer wrote:Just a question for my own interest. If she enters on Argentinian passport, would she not be stamped as a visitor, and therefore technically overstay after 6 months?
To overstay, you have to need leave to remain and not have it. As a British citizen, she does not need leave to remain.

Could she be admitted to the UK as a visitor without claiming to be one? Now, it is an offence for someone who is not a British citizen to obtain admission by lying to an Immigration Officer. However, it may be that it is not an offence* for a British citizen to obtain admission by lying to an Immigration Officer, but I am not confident of that. However, in this particular case, she might be able to claim to be a visitor. It depends on whether she will be working before she leaves the UK again.
Wanderer wrote:I think it's been said here that British Citizens cannot be admitted as visitors, but can you be on your other nationality if a dual national?
The argument goes that the grant of leave is invalid. I take the view that admission is admission*, and that the imposition of conditions is simply void in such a case.

*There is probably an exception when it would be illegal for the British citizen to enter the UK, whether via a port or otherwise.

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