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The point is not whether you are in a durable relationship its whether you are to be treated as a FM (with right to work) or an EFM (without enjoying that right until checked and confirmed by HO).baranimus wrote:Hi everyone,
I have exactly the same situation but there is just one difference. I entered to the UK with my 6 month tourist visa, then while in the UK legally me and my girlfriend applied EEA QP + EEA EFM (as an unmarried partner). 2 days ago I received my CoA and biometric enrollment letter together, I gave my biometrics at the same day. CoA states exactly the same things as knm812 wrote.
...
Thanks a lot,
Regards
As you entered UK on a visit visa and not a FP (with right to work) my understanding is you won't be issued with COA confirming right to work.but there is just one difference
noajthan wrote:The point is not whether you are in a durable relationship its whether you are to be treated as a FM (with right to work) or an EFM (without enjoying that right until checked and confirmed by HO).baranimus wrote:Hi everyone,
I have exactly the same situation but there is just one difference. I entered to the UK with my 6 month tourist visa, then while in the UK legally me and my girlfriend applied EEA QP + EEA EFM (as an unmarried partner). 2 days ago I received my CoA and biometric enrollment letter together, I gave my biometrics at the same day. CoA states exactly the same things as knm812 wrote.
...
Thanks a lot,
Regards
As you entered UK on a visit visa and not a FP (with right to work) my understanding is you won't be issued with COA confirming right to work.but there is just one difference
As is often the case, the devil is in the detail.
EFMs get the fuzzy end of the lollipop unless, in certain cases, they may be treated as a FM.baranimus wrote:Thank you noajthan. But I didn't understand. To be able to get a CoA with right to work, must the person enter the UK with FP visa? Othervise it is strictly a CoA without a right to work? If yes, where is that written? In which document is it stated? I am so sorry for these questions, I might have missed these informations while I was researching to apply my visa. So you mean for me there is no chance to get a new reviewed CoA? I am really stuck at this point and I do need your valuable help. Thanks a lot again.
noajthan wrote: EFMs get the fuzzy end of the lollipop unless, in certain cases, they may be treated as a FM.
So a 'first-time' EFM, fresh off the boat, if you will, (with no FP, RC etc) will not have their right to work confirmed by the interim COA.
Their right to work will be confirmed by the eventual issue of an EFM RC.
See
http://www.immigrationboards.com/eea-ro ... l#p1202614
A little unclear why you entered on a visit visa in the first place, but, hey ho, you are where you are.baranimus wrote:Thank you. If cancel my application (if possible) and return my home country and apply in there to get a FP to enter the UK, then it will take less time to get a CoA with the right to work as i can prove my relationship is durable. Should I do something like that, if possible, instead of waiting for 6 months? I am an IT professional and easily can find a job anywhere in the UK when having the right to work, it is really hard for me to wait minimum 6 months. What would do you suggest about canceling and reapplying from my home country?
Thanks
noajthan wrote:You can't apply for a UK EEA(FM) from abroad.
Only a FP.
HO response is likely to be that you should have applied for FP if you wanted right of work confirmed upfront.
btw - success rate for FP is not 100%.
Caseworker will consider what's in the bundle at the time;
yes, if under 3 months of treaty rights everything should have been sent.
Caseworker will reserve judgement until she has assessed your ids, relationship 'akin to marriage', both party's residence (/absences) & sponsor as qualified person.
If RC is not granted you will find yourself on a sticky wicket.
Because if your RC is not granted for some reason then EU rights will not kick in.baranimus wrote:I know I can't apply, I meant applying FP, I will correct this on my post.
Why do you think if RC is not granted iw ill find myself on a sticky wicket? Because sending the above letter? If I send, is there any possibility to affect my application negatively?
I haven't found the same case with mine so far on the internet, that's why I keep asking. What if writing them honestly that I didn't know about CoA can not contain work permit if i apply with visitor visa while legally in the UK. I feel extremely stupid why I am in that position, anyone who reads this, could you please recommend something?
...
Why EU rights will not kick in if my RC is not granted?noajthan wrote: Because if your RC is not granted for some reason then EU rights will not kick in.
Depending on the reason for such a (hypothetical) failure you may or may not be granted appeal rights.
If your visit visa has run out (and if no appeal rights) you will be an overstayer with no leave.
Hopefully you have made a good enough case to succeed with EFM RC.
As your application is already 'in flight' its just a case of sitting tight to wait for the outcome.
Because you are unmarried and applying as an EFM. You are not a FM - who (usually) get a COA with right to work confirmed.baranimus wrote:Why EU rights will not kick in if my RC is not granted?
Could you please tell me how do I clearify if I may or may not appeal for my CoA?
I am trying to sit tight to wait for the outcome.
What part of the directive should he invoke? Article 5(4) only applies to union citizens and their family members, and the OP's problem is that the UK has not yet decided to treat him as a family member. I think there is at least a theoretical risk that he would be refused entry on the basis that he intends to be in the UK for more than 6 months or to work, which his visa does not allow.noajthan wrote:It's a longshot but you could try a day trip to France and, on re-entry, invoke the Directive to get stamped into UK under the Directive (rather than as a visitor).
Carry all documentation to prove your status, evidence of durable relationship over 3 years and etc etc;
in other words treat it as a FP application made 'on the fly'.
A successful stamp (previously known as 'code 1A') would confirm a right to work too.
All of it.Richard W wrote:What part of the directive should he invoke? Article 5(4) only applies to union citizens and their family members, and the OP's problem is that the UK has not yet decided to treat him as a family member. I think there is at least a theoretical risk that he would be refused entry on the basis that he intends to be in the UK for more than 6 months or to work, which his visa does not allow.
noajthan wrote: Because you are unmarried and applying as an EFM. You are not a FM - who (usually) get a COA with right to work confirmed.
My understanding is you cannot formally 'appeal' at the COA stage;
this is because you did not have a previous right to work as you entered UK on a visit visa.
Anyway there is no appeal right for COA, just an appeal right, in certain circumstances, for the complete process.
If you had entered on a FP (or, somehow, had had a previous RC) and were now issued with COA 'in error' you could email that HO mailbox to try to fix it.
How long does the visit visa have left?
She means right of appeal depends on proof of identity, amongst other factors. I would concur.baranimus wrote:I called a solicitors company and talked to a lawyer today. I asked her if my RC is refused, will I have the right to appeal as applied EEA(EFM) while holding a visitor visa, she said that if I have a valid passport then I will have the right to appeal. Of course I have a valid passport until 2022. So i am confused if my RC is refused, I will have the right to appeal or not.
I will ask some other lawyers too.
Now, I know, see and accept my overall situation and of course my stupidly made mistake, however I sent an email to that HO address today. I explained my failure honestly, whether they reconsider my case or not, at least I did something. Tomorrow I will send the same mail via post too.
By the way my visa visit expired on 19 August. I have been in the UK for about 3 months.
Thank you for your time and effort again.
noajthan wrote: She means right of appeal depends on proof of identity, amongst other factors. I would concur.
Alternately, you can go straight to the source and get into the head of the caseworker who will weigh up and assess your case, see here in internal HO guidance:
https://www.gov.uk/government/uploads/s ... _clean.pdf
- refusals and appeal rights mentioned on pp 11, 13, 14, 15, 18, 35; sharp-eyed readers may find other refs too; (no prizes).
Dealing with HO on immigration matters is certainly one way to feel that you are 'alive'.
But don't be too hard on yourself. If you have proven your case all will be well.
Understood.baranimus wrote:I printed and read this document a couple of months ago before applying EEA(EFM). I read relevant appeal parts but I never focused since I had no doubt to prove my 'durable relationship". But of course my RC may not be granted, I will deal with this possibility very very later. To be honest, I just want to focus on my six months without the right to work. If I knew I would not receive my CoA with the right to work, I would definitely apply for a FP in the first place. Anyway, as I said, I just want to focus on my CoA to be reviewed or not. I will write to HO again and again until my CoA and circumstances will be reviewed again or my application will be decided. No one wants to make such a mistake if he/she wants to continue working while waiting the outcome of his/her application. I have been working as a professional for years, and to save six months from an obligatory military service in my life, I had to pay thousands of pounds in my corrupted home country, even for some days I didn't eat to save some money. I mean, right now, it is unbelievably, depressingly hard for me to lose these months in my life. This my simple and short story. So dear noajthan, now I just focus on my following six months, and I just focus on finding a way out, I don't care about being rejected, and appealing things for now.
Regards
Its a generic 'boilerplate' letter/email.baranimus wrote:Hi everyone,
After receiving the first CoA, I sent an email to the HO, then a week later I received the second CoA which exactly says:
“At the time of your application, we were unable to confirm your right to work in the UK. This will depend on the outcome of the application.
This is because you have not provided original documentation for all of the following:
- Evidence of relationship with your EEA national sponsor
- İdentity
- Treaty Rights
OR
You are an extended family member/unmarried partner of an EU national and have not been issued with one of the following:
- An EEA family permit
- Registration certificate or Residence card.
“
I understood that although I had applied for an EEA Residence Card without holding an EEA family permit, I had had a chance to get a CoA with the right to work by fulfilling the first condition (before the bold written OR). The first question is am I correct? Did/do I understand correctly?
At the time I applied for an EEA Residence Card, my partner had only two payslips. After the second CoA, on 15 September I sent a letter to Liverpool, where the CoAs had been come, including my partner’s four payslips and lots of evidences about why I applied for a visitor visa and didn’t need an EEA family permit to apply for an EEA residence Card. If your answer to my first question is “correct”, then my second question is that did I do the right thing by sending a letter including all the payslips by that time to prove my partner had been exercising her Treaty Rights?
Maybe I have already lost to be able to get a CoA with the right to work by the first condition states “Evidence of relationship with your EEA national sponsor". In my second question I assumed that I met that condition.
I am here again to ask my questions since I will not be able to appeal after the new HO update “No right of appeal against refusal of residence card to EFM”.
Thanks a lot
We will not revisit the terms of your Certificate of Application during the consideration of your case. This means we will not confirm your right to work until your application is decided.
It should work. Other members have gone abroad without a RC and have come back to UK on a FP.baranimus wrote:I got it, thank you so much Noajthan!
Whom reads just this post, not the previous posts, could you please comment on?
I had never applied for an EEA FP before I applied for an EEA (EFM) RC as an unmarried partner while holding a valid visitor
visa, that's why I received a CoA without the right to work and in these circumstances I will not be able to receive a new CoA as well.
As you can see from my timeline, my application is still in progress and It will be decided about at the end of January 2017.
However, I am thinking to change the circumstances.
I requested my passport back and just after receiving it I will be able to go back to my home country, Turkey, without any problems at the airports although being an overstayer.
As soon as I arrive Turkey I will apply for a FP to be able to re-enter to the UK with the same documents I sent to the HO when applying for an EEA (EFM) RC.
Visa processing times show that I will be able to get a FP in 15 days in Turkey. If refused I will re-apply. If I never succeed to get a FP in Turkey, then this fact will let me know
....
I don't know something. Do you see any possible negative impact of this plan on my RC application?
Thank you so much
...
Yes, I have read some of their posts.noajthan wrote: It should work. Other members have gone abroad without a RC and have come back to UK on a FP.
A FP comes with a right to work for 6 months too.
And as you say, the application may help tease out any issues with the main RC application.