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COA EFM - arrived as visitor, no right to work?

Use this section for any queries concerning the EU Settlement Scheme, for applicants holding pre-settled and settled status.

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baranimus
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COA EFM - arrived as visitor, no right to work?

Post by baranimus » Fri Aug 19, 2016 5:24 pm

Hi everyone,

I have exactly the same situation but there is just one difference. I entered to the UK with my 6 month tourist visa, then while in the UK legally me and my girlfriend applied EEA QP + EEA EFM (as an unmarried partner). 2 days ago I received my CoA and biometric enrollment letter together, I gave my biometrics at the same day. CoA states exactly the same things as knm812 wrote.

What should I do now? Could you please help me asap? What should I write to NWEUROCOARequests@homeoffice.gsi.gov.uk, what should I say? How can I support the idea "I should have a right to work"? Actually I sent all the original documents and every documents that prove we have been in a durable relationship about 3 years.

Thanks a lot,
Regards

noajthan
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Re: COA EFM - no right to work?

Post by noajthan » Fri Aug 19, 2016 5:33 pm

baranimus wrote:Hi everyone,

I have exactly the same situation but there is just one difference. I entered to the UK with my 6 month tourist visa, then while in the UK legally me and my girlfriend applied EEA QP + EEA EFM (as an unmarried partner). 2 days ago I received my CoA and biometric enrollment letter together, I gave my biometrics at the same day. CoA states exactly the same things as knm812 wrote.

...

Thanks a lot,
Regards
The point is not whether you are in a durable relationship its whether you are to be treated as a FM (with right to work) or an EFM (without enjoying that right until checked and confirmed by HO).
but there is just one difference
As you entered UK on a visit visa and not a FP (with right to work) my understanding is you won't be issued with COA confirming right to work.

As is often the case, the devil is in the detail.
All that is gold does not glitter; Not all those who wander are lost. E&OE.

baranimus
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Re: COA EFM - no right to work?

Post by baranimus » Fri Aug 19, 2016 11:57 pm

Thank you noajthan. But I didn't understand. To be able to get a CoA with right to work, must the person enter the UK with FP visa? Othervise it is strictly a CoA without a right to work? If yes, where is that written? In which document is it stated? I am so sorry for these questions, I might have missed these informations while I was researching to apply my visa. So you mean for me there is no chance to get a new reviewed CoA? I am really stuck at this point and I do need your valuable help. Thanks a lot again.
noajthan wrote:
baranimus wrote:Hi everyone,

I have exactly the same situation but there is just one difference. I entered to the UK with my 6 month tourist visa, then while in the UK legally me and my girlfriend applied EEA QP + EEA EFM (as an unmarried partner). 2 days ago I received my CoA and biometric enrollment letter together, I gave my biometrics at the same day. CoA states exactly the same things as knm812 wrote.

...

Thanks a lot,
Regards
The point is not whether you are in a durable relationship its whether you are to be treated as a FM (with right to work) or an EFM (without enjoying that right until checked and confirmed by HO).
but there is just one difference
As you entered UK on a visit visa and not a FP (with right to work) my understanding is you won't be issued with COA confirming right to work.

As is often the case, the devil is in the detail.

noajthan
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Re: COA EFM - no right to work?

Post by noajthan » Sat Aug 20, 2016 8:27 am

baranimus wrote:Thank you noajthan. But I didn't understand. To be able to get a CoA with right to work, must the person enter the UK with FP visa? Othervise it is strictly a CoA without a right to work? If yes, where is that written? In which document is it stated? I am so sorry for these questions, I might have missed these informations while I was researching to apply my visa. So you mean for me there is no chance to get a new reviewed CoA? I am really stuck at this point and I do need your valuable help. Thanks a lot again.
EFMs get the fuzzy end of the lollipop unless, in certain cases, they may be treated as a FM.

So a 'first-time' EFM, fresh off the boat, if you will, (with no FP, RC etc) will not have their right to work confirmed by the interim COA.
Their right to work will be confirmed by the eventual issue of an EFM RC.

See
http://www.immigrationboards.com/eea-ro ... l#p1202614
All that is gold does not glitter; Not all those who wander are lost. E&OE.

baranimus
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Re: COA EFM - no right to work?

Post by baranimus » Sat Aug 20, 2016 10:47 am

Thank you. If cancel my application (if possible) and return my home country and apply in there to get a FP to enter the UK, then it will take less time to get a CoA with the right to work as i can prove my relationship is durable. Should I do something like that, if possible, instead of waiting for 6 months? I am an IT professional and easily can find a job anywhere in the UK when having the right to work, it is really hard for me to wait minimum 6 months. What would do you suggest about canceling and reapplying from my home country?

Thanks
noajthan wrote: EFMs get the fuzzy end of the lollipop unless, in certain cases, they may be treated as a FM.

So a 'first-time' EFM, fresh off the boat, if you will, (with no FP, RC etc) will not have their right to work confirmed by the interim COA.
Their right to work will be confirmed by the eventual issue of an EFM RC.

See
http://www.immigrationboards.com/eea-ro ... l#p1202614

noajthan
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Re: COA EFM - no right to work?

Post by noajthan » Sat Aug 20, 2016 11:07 am

baranimus wrote:Thank you. If cancel my application (if possible) and return my home country and apply in there to get a FP to enter the UK, then it will take less time to get a CoA with the right to work as i can prove my relationship is durable. Should I do something like that, if possible, instead of waiting for 6 months? I am an IT professional and easily can find a job anywhere in the UK when having the right to work, it is really hard for me to wait minimum 6 months. What would do you suggest about canceling and reapplying from my home country?

Thanks
A little unclear why you entered on a visit visa in the first place, but, hey ho, you are where you are.
I guess you just hope for the best - but do plan for the worst.
Note if your RC is refused you may not have any basis to remain in UK unless you are able to appeal.

Interesting idea, you are certainly thinking outside the box in the true spirit of agile by 'inspecting and adapting'.

Whether you would now speed things up by leaving and coming back is unclear.
It all depends when you filed the RC application.

It's a longshot but you could try a day trip to France and, on re-entry, invoke the Directive to get stamped into UK under the Directive (rather than as a visitor).
Carry all documentation to prove your status, evidence of durable relationship over 3 years and etc etc;
in other words treat it as a FP application made 'on the fly'.

A successful stamp (previously known as 'code 1A') would confirm a right to work too.
Although its not clear if employers (even in IT) are sufficiently up to speed with EU regulations to be able to recognise that.

See UK BF Ops Manual to understand the extensive examination you would be subjected to at the border:
https://www.whatdotheyknow.com/request/ ... ndents.pdf
0- ref 5.5.1 and 5.5.2
All that is gold does not glitter; Not all those who wander are lost. E&OE.

noajthan
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Re: COA EFM - arrived as visitor, no right to work?

Post by noajthan » Sat Aug 20, 2016 11:09 am

To avoid confusion & jumbled responses, I have moved your question to its own thread (this one).
All that is gold does not glitter; Not all those who wander are lost. E&OE.

baranimus
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Re: COA EFM - arrived as visitor, no right to work?

Post by baranimus » Sun Aug 21, 2016 9:33 pm

Noajthan, thank you so so much about your really valuable efforts and moving my questions to a new thread. I do appreciate your effortsand help, this site and you guys are unbelievably helpful and making me hopeful. Thanks again.

I researched about applying EEA (EFM) with holding a visitor visa while in the UK, but I found nothing negative on this. To be honest I didn't care about FP visa type. Actually, my Swedish girlfriend and I were applying for the jobs positioned in the UK in our home country, mainly we wanted to move to the UK but in case of not getting a job offer we had a second plan which is to move to Sweden where my gf had 10 years work experience. So it was not clear if we would move to the UK or not until she got some calls for face to face interviews. To be able to motivate and help her, I wanted to go with her for the interviews in the UK, so I applied for a visitor visa to get in a short time. I got the visa then we came and she got the job. Then I started to research about EEA (EFM) and I understood I could apply while in the UK legally, then stopped to think about where to apply. Now I see that I made a very big mistake which can cost me to lose at least 6 months in my life.

Apparently, I missed the devil is in the detail.

Firstly I was in panic, but not now. As you said, I was certainly thinking outside the box, now trying to inspect and adapt. For now, I don't cancel or do nothing about similar thing, I will just wait and hope but definitely contact the HO as soon as possible.
Thanks a lot for your day trip recommendation and the related links you provided. I think I would never thought something like that. This will be my plan B if I will fail to get a new CoA with the right to work.

By the way my timeline:
Applications [EEA(QP) + EEA(EFM)] posted: 11/07/2016
Received by HO: 12/07/2016
Payments [EEA(QP) + EEA(EFM)] taken: 14/07/2016
Acknowledgement email received EEA(QP): 15/08/2016
Bio letter + CoA (without work) received: 17/08/2016
Biometrics enrolled: 17/08/2016

Based on my research on this forum and on another websites my CoA is generic. I am writing what it is exactly written on my CoA:

"

Permanent Migration
The Capital
Old Hall Street
Liverpool
L3 9PP

At this stage we are unable to confirm your right to work in the United Kingdom. This will depend on the outcome of the application. This is because you have not provided original documentation for all of the following:

-The applicant is the unmarried partner or an extended family member (for example the brother or sister) of an EU citizen who is exercising European free movement rights in the United Kingdom.

In these circumstances there is no automatic right or entitlement to live in the United Kingdom with the EU citizen sponsor. The Home secretary must consider whether, in all the circumstances of the case, it would be right to issue a Residence Card on this basis. This means that until we have determined that you qualify as an unmarried partner or an extended family member by issuing a Residence Document, you are not able to work on the basis of your relationship to your EU citizen sponsor. Any right to work in the meanwhile will depend on your having some alternative basis of stay in the United Kingdom which does not prohibit access to employment or self-employment.

We will not revisit the terms of your Certificate of Application during the consideration of your case. This means we will not confirm your right to work until your application is decided. This includes the period of time during which you exercise any right to of appeal should your application be refused and is irrespective of any information or documentation you may provide during the consideration stage.
The enclosed Questions and Answers sheet provides more information about employment rights.

Questions and Answers

Why are you unable to confirm any right to work in the United Kingdom whilst my application is being considered?

We are unable to confirm eligibility to take or continue in employment in the United Kingdom where

-The applicant is the unmarried partner or an extended family member (for example, the brother or sister) of an EU citizen who is exercising European free movement rights in the United Kingdom.

In these circumstances there is no automatic right or entitlement to live in the United Kingdom with the EU citizen sponsor. The Home secretary must consider whether, in all the circumstances of the case, it would be right to issue a Residence Card on this basis. This means that until we have determined that you qualify as an unmarried partner or as an extended family member by issuing a Residence Document, you are not able to work on the basis of your relationship to your EU citizen sponsor. Any right to work in the meanwhile will depend on your having some alternative basis of in the United Kingdom which does not prohibit access to employment or self-employment.

-The applicant has not provided satisfactory evidence of his or her identity or of his or her relationship to an EU citizen. We will consider your application but may need to contact you for some additional or alternative evidence.



Based on my researches, in most of the cases, people who applied for EEA (EFM) as an unmarried partner and received exactly the same above CoA, they had entered to the UK with FP visa and they sent email(s) to the HO or sent letter(s) to the caseworker and then their CoA reviewed again sent them with the right to work. However, I entered with visitor visa and I do not have FP, but this shouldn’t be the case. I am definitely sure that if I applied for a FP as an unmarried partner, I would successfully get since there is no doubt about my durable relationship. In addition to these, I realized something that when filed our applications to the HO my gf had been in the UK for 2 months and she only had 2 payrolls. In the following EEA (QP) guidance notes, it is written, in the “Proof of your income or salary” part under Section 3, that “the evidence should cover at least the last three months before the date of your application. If you’ve been working for the employer for less than three months, the evidence should cover the entire period of employment”. As stated in the second sentence our evidences covered the entire period. I don’t think it’s the case but just putting to let you know.

https://www.gov.uk/government/uploads/s ... -04_KP.pdf

As you said several times, the case is about my being treated as a FM.
I decided to write to HO the following email or mail via post or both. The email includes assumptions but I have nothing to lose.



Dear Madam/Sir,

I have been issued a CoA, with the case ID XXXXXXX, which states Home Office are unable to confirm my right to work in the United Kingdom. This is because I have not provided original documentation for all of the following:

-The applicant is the unmarried partner or an extended family member (for example the brother or sister) of an EU citizen who is exercising European free movement rights in the United Kingdom.

In these circumstances there is no automatic right or entitlement to live in the United Kingdom with the EU citizen sponsor. The Home secretary must consider whether, in all the circumstances of the case, it would be right to issue a Residence Card on this basis. This means that until we have determined that you qualify as an unmarried partner or an extended family member by issuing a Residence Document, you are not able to work on the basis of your relationship to your EU citizen sponsor. Any right to work in the meanwhile will depend on your having some alternative basis of stay in the United Kingdom which does not prohibit access to employment or self-employment.

First of all, I’ve sent all the original documents needed for my application. Based on my researches on the internet, this CoA seems generic and some of the people who applied EEA(EFM) and are sent CoA including the above statements sent you emails or posts for their CoA needs to be reviewed and then they got their new CoA with the right to work. Those people hold Family Permit visa but I don’t since I applied while I am in the UK with visitor visa. However there is no doubt about my durable relationship with our photos, communication history covering our entire relationship duration, letters from friends etc. that I sent you in my application. This means if I applied EEA (EFM) in my home country, I would definitely be granted with a Family Permit visa. So I want my CoA reviewed again.


Do you think I should send this only via email or post to the above address from where my CoA sent?
What other argument(s) do you think I can add to my email or post?
My gf will get her fourth payroll at the end of August, if I send this mail via post, should I include my gf’s third and fourth payrolls too by mentioning her application was sent while she was in the UK for 2 months?

Thanks a lot again.

noajthan
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Re: COA EFM - arrived as visitor, no right to work?

Post by noajthan » Sun Aug 21, 2016 9:50 pm

You can't apply for a UK EEA(FM) from abroad.
Only a FP.

HO response is likely to be that you should have applied for FP if you wanted right of work confirmed upfront.

btw - success rate for FP is not 100%.

Caseworker will consider what's in the bundle at the time;
yes, if under 3 months of treaty rights everything should have been sent.
Caseworker will reserve judgement until she has assessed your ids, relationship 'akin to marriage', both party's residence (/absences) & sponsor as qualified person.

If RC is not granted you will find yourself on a sticky wicket.
All that is gold does not glitter; Not all those who wander are lost. E&OE.

baranimus
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Re: COA EFM - arrived as visitor, no right to work?

Post by baranimus » Mon Aug 22, 2016 12:37 am

I know I can't apply, I meant applying FP, I will correct this on my post.

Why do you think if RC is not granted iw ill find myself on a sticky wicket? Because sending the above letter? If I send, is there any possibility to affect my application negatively?

I haven't found the same case with mine so far on the internet, that's why I keep asking. What if writing them honestly that I didn't know about CoA can not contain work permit if i apply with visitor visa while legally in the UK. I feel extremely stupid why I am in that position, anyone who reads this, could you please recommend something?
noajthan wrote:You can't apply for a UK EEA(FM) from abroad.
Only a FP.

HO response is likely to be that you should have applied for FP if you wanted right of work confirmed upfront.

btw - success rate for FP is not 100%.

Caseworker will consider what's in the bundle at the time;
yes, if under 3 months of treaty rights everything should have been sent.
Caseworker will reserve judgement until she has assessed your ids, relationship 'akin to marriage', both party's residence (/absences) & sponsor as qualified person.

If RC is not granted you will find yourself on a sticky wicket.

noajthan
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Re: COA EFM - arrived as visitor, no right to work?

Post by noajthan » Mon Aug 22, 2016 12:44 am

baranimus wrote:I know I can't apply, I meant applying FP, I will correct this on my post.

Why do you think if RC is not granted iw ill find myself on a sticky wicket? Because sending the above letter? If I send, is there any possibility to affect my application negatively?

I haven't found the same case with mine so far on the internet, that's why I keep asking. What if writing them honestly that I didn't know about CoA can not contain work permit if i apply with visitor visa while legally in the UK. I feel extremely stupid why I am in that position, anyone who reads this, could you please recommend something?

...
Because if your RC is not granted for some reason then EU rights will not kick in.
Depending on the reason for such a (hypothetical) failure you may or may not be granted appeal rights.
If your visit visa has run out (and if no appeal rights) you will be an overstayer with no leave.

Hopefully you have made a good enough case to succeed with EFM RC.
As your application is already 'in flight' its just a case of sitting tight to wait for the outcome.
All that is gold does not glitter; Not all those who wander are lost. E&OE.

baranimus
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Re: COA EFM - arrived as visitor, no right to work?

Post by baranimus » Mon Aug 22, 2016 1:36 am

noajthan wrote: Because if your RC is not granted for some reason then EU rights will not kick in.
Depending on the reason for such a (hypothetical) failure you may or may not be granted appeal rights.
If your visit visa has run out (and if no appeal rights) you will be an overstayer with no leave.

Hopefully you have made a good enough case to succeed with EFM RC.
As your application is already 'in flight' its just a case of sitting tight to wait for the outcome.
Why EU rights will not kick in if my RC is not granted?

Could you please tell me how do I clearify if I may or may not appeal for my CoA?

I am trying to sit tight to wait for the outcome.

noajthan
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Re: COA EFM - arrived as visitor, no right to work?

Post by noajthan » Mon Aug 22, 2016 9:26 am

baranimus wrote:Why EU rights will not kick in if my RC is not granted?

Could you please tell me how do I clearify if I may or may not appeal for my CoA?

I am trying to sit tight to wait for the outcome.
Because you are unmarried and applying as an EFM. You are not a FM - who (usually) get a COA with right to work confirmed.

My understanding is you cannot formally 'appeal' at the COA stage;
this is because you did not have a previous right to work as you entered UK on a visit visa.
Anyway there is no appeal right for COA, just an appeal right, in certain circumstances, for the complete process.

If you had entered on a FP (or, somehow, had had a previous RC) and were now issued with COA 'in error' you could email that HO mailbox to try to fix it.

How long does the visit visa have left?
All that is gold does not glitter; Not all those who wander are lost. E&OE.

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Re: COA EFM - no right to work?

Post by Richard W » Mon Aug 22, 2016 8:27 pm

noajthan wrote:It's a longshot but you could try a day trip to France and, on re-entry, invoke the Directive to get stamped into UK under the Directive (rather than as a visitor).
Carry all documentation to prove your status, evidence of durable relationship over 3 years and etc etc;
in other words treat it as a FP application made 'on the fly'.
A successful stamp (previously known as 'code 1A') would confirm a right to work too.
What part of the directive should he invoke? Article 5(4) only applies to union citizens and their family members, and the OP's problem is that the UK has not yet decided to treat him as a family member. I think there is at least a theoretical risk that he would be refused entry on the basis that he intends to be in the UK for more than 6 months or to work, which his visa does not allow.

noajthan
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Re: COA EFM - no right to work?

Post by noajthan » Mon Aug 22, 2016 8:45 pm

Richard W wrote:What part of the directive should he invoke? Article 5(4) only applies to union citizens and their family members, and the OP's problem is that the UK has not yet decided to treat him as a family member. I think there is at least a theoretical risk that he would be refused entry on the basis that he intends to be in the UK for more than 6 months or to work, which his visa does not allow.
All of it.

And yes, ofcourse there's a risk of refusal, there always is at a border. That's why its called border control.

Did I mention it was a longshot.
And regular readers will know I'm not a fan of so-called visa runs at best of times.

Only way OP could have avoided/minimised risk, or at least faced it head on (and upfront) is if he had applied for a FP in the first place.
Then issues would have become apparent and could have been addressed before OP had leapt into lion's den or tried to leap clear of the unicorn's horn.
All that is gold does not glitter; Not all those who wander are lost. E&OE.

baranimus
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Re: COA EFM - arrived as visitor, no right to work?

Post by baranimus » Mon Aug 22, 2016 10:15 pm

I called a solicitors company and talked to a lawyer today. I asked her if my RC is refused, will I have the right to appeal as applied EEA(EFM) while holding a visitor visa, she said that if I have a valid passport then I will have the right to appeal. Of course I have a valid passport until 2022. So i am confused if my RC is refused, I will have the right to appeal or not.
I will ask some other lawyers too.

Now, I know, see and accept my overall situation and of course my stupidly made mistake, however I sent an email to that HO address today. I explained my failure honestly, whether they reconsider my case or not, at least I did something. Tomorrow I will send the same mail via post too.

By the way my visa visit expired on 19 August. I have been in the UK for about 3 months.

Thank you for your time and effort again.
noajthan wrote: Because you are unmarried and applying as an EFM. You are not a FM - who (usually) get a COA with right to work confirmed.

My understanding is you cannot formally 'appeal' at the COA stage;
this is because you did not have a previous right to work as you entered UK on a visit visa.
Anyway there is no appeal right for COA, just an appeal right, in certain circumstances, for the complete process.

If you had entered on a FP (or, somehow, had had a previous RC) and were now issued with COA 'in error' you could email that HO mailbox to try to fix it.

How long does the visit visa have left?

noajthan
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Re: COA EFM - arrived as visitor, no right to work?

Post by noajthan » Mon Aug 22, 2016 10:35 pm

baranimus wrote:I called a solicitors company and talked to a lawyer today. I asked her if my RC is refused, will I have the right to appeal as applied EEA(EFM) while holding a visitor visa, she said that if I have a valid passport then I will have the right to appeal. Of course I have a valid passport until 2022. So i am confused if my RC is refused, I will have the right to appeal or not.
I will ask some other lawyers too.

Now, I know, see and accept my overall situation and of course my stupidly made mistake, however I sent an email to that HO address today. I explained my failure honestly, whether they reconsider my case or not, at least I did something. Tomorrow I will send the same mail via post too.

By the way my visa visit expired on 19 August. I have been in the UK for about 3 months.

Thank you for your time and effort again.
She means right of appeal depends on proof of identity, amongst other factors. I would concur.

Alternately, you can go straight to the source and get into the head of the caseworker who will weigh up and assess your case, see here in internal HO guidance:
https://www.gov.uk/government/uploads/s ... _clean.pdf
- refusals and appeal rights mentioned on pp 11, 13, 14, 15, 18, 35; sharp-eyed readers may find other refs too; (no prizes).

Dealing with HO on immigration matters is certainly one way to feel that you are 'alive'.
But don't be too hard on yourself. If you have proven your case all will be well.
All that is gold does not glitter; Not all those who wander are lost. E&OE.

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Re: COA EFM - arrived as visitor, no right to work?

Post by baranimus » Tue Aug 23, 2016 12:38 am

I printed and read this document a couple of months ago before applying EEA(EFM). I read relevant appeal parts but I never focused since I had no doubt to prove my 'durable relationship". But of course my RC may not be granted, I will deal with this possibility very very later. To be honest, I just want to focus on my six months without the right to work. If I knew I would not receive my CoA with the right to work, I would definitely apply for a FP in the first place. Anyway, as I said, I just want to focus on my CoA to be reviewed or not. I will write to HO again and again until my CoA and circumstances will be reviewed again or my application will be decided. No one wants to make such a mistake if he/she wants to continue working while waiting the outcome of his/her application. I have been working as a professional for years, and to save six months from an obligatory military service in my life, I had to pay thousands of pounds in my corrupted home country, even for some days I didn't eat to save some money. I mean, right now, it is unbelievably, depressingly hard for me to lose these months in my life. This my simple and short story. So dear noajthan, now I just focus on my following six months, and I just focus on finding a way out, I don't care about being rejected, and appealing things for now.

Regards
noajthan wrote: She means right of appeal depends on proof of identity, amongst other factors. I would concur.

Alternately, you can go straight to the source and get into the head of the caseworker who will weigh up and assess your case, see here in internal HO guidance:
https://www.gov.uk/government/uploads/s ... _clean.pdf
- refusals and appeal rights mentioned on pp 11, 13, 14, 15, 18, 35; sharp-eyed readers may find other refs too; (no prizes).

Dealing with HO on immigration matters is certainly one way to feel that you are 'alive'.
But don't be too hard on yourself. If you have proven your case all will be well.

noajthan
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Re: COA EFM - arrived as visitor, no right to work?

Post by noajthan » Tue Aug 23, 2016 12:43 am

baranimus wrote:I printed and read this document a couple of months ago before applying EEA(EFM). I read relevant appeal parts but I never focused since I had no doubt to prove my 'durable relationship". But of course my RC may not be granted, I will deal with this possibility very very later. To be honest, I just want to focus on my six months without the right to work. If I knew I would not receive my CoA with the right to work, I would definitely apply for a FP in the first place. Anyway, as I said, I just want to focus on my CoA to be reviewed or not. I will write to HO again and again until my CoA and circumstances will be reviewed again or my application will be decided. No one wants to make such a mistake if he/she wants to continue working while waiting the outcome of his/her application. I have been working as a professional for years, and to save six months from an obligatory military service in my life, I had to pay thousands of pounds in my corrupted home country, even for some days I didn't eat to save some money. I mean, right now, it is unbelievably, depressingly hard for me to lose these months in my life. This my simple and short story. So dear noajthan, now I just focus on my following six months, and I just focus on finding a way out, I don't care about being rejected, and appealing things for now.

Regards
Understood.

And that's the spirit that will get you through.
The quiet stoicism of "never say die".

Best of British luck.
All that is gold does not glitter; Not all those who wander are lost. E&OE.

baranimus
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Re: COA EFM - arrived as visitor, no right to work?

Post by baranimus » Wed Sep 28, 2016 12:56 am

Hi everyone,

After receiving the first CoA, I sent an email to the HO, then a week later I received the second CoA which exactly says:

“At the time of your application, we were unable to confirm your right to work in the UK. This will depend on the outcome of the application.

This is because you have not provided original documentation for all of the following:

- Evidence of relationship with your EEA national sponsor
- İdentity
- Treaty Rights

OR

You are an extended family member/unmarried partner of an EU national and have not been issued with one of the following:

- An EEA family permit
- Registration certificate or Residence card.


I understood that although I had applied for an EEA Residence Card without holding an EEA family permit, I had had a chance to get a CoA with the right to work by fulfilling the first condition (before the bold written OR). The first question is am I correct? Did/do I understand correctly?

At the time I applied for an EEA Residence Card, my partner had only two payslips. After the second CoA, on 15 September I sent a letter to Liverpool, where the CoAs had been come, including my partner’s four payslips and lots of evidences about why I applied for a visitor visa and didn’t need an EEA family permit to apply for an EEA residence Card. If your answer to my first question is “correct”, then my second question is that did I do the right thing by sending a letter including all the payslips by that time to prove my partner had been exercising her Treaty Rights?

Maybe I have already lost to be able to get a CoA with the right to work by the first condition states “Evidence of relationship with your EEA national sponsor". In my second question I assumed that I met that condition.

I am here again to ask my questions since I will not be able to appeal after the new HO update “No right of appeal against refusal of residence card to EFM”.

Thanks a lot

noajthan
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Re: COA EFM - arrived as visitor, no right to work?

Post by noajthan » Wed Sep 28, 2016 9:09 am

baranimus wrote:Hi everyone,

After receiving the first CoA, I sent an email to the HO, then a week later I received the second CoA which exactly says:

“At the time of your application, we were unable to confirm your right to work in the UK. This will depend on the outcome of the application.

This is because you have not provided original documentation for all of the following:

- Evidence of relationship with your EEA national sponsor
- İdentity
- Treaty Rights

OR

You are an extended family member/unmarried partner of an EU national and have not been issued with one of the following:

- An EEA family permit
- Registration certificate or Residence card.


I understood that although I had applied for an EEA Residence Card without holding an EEA family permit, I had had a chance to get a CoA with the right to work by fulfilling the first condition (before the bold written OR). The first question is am I correct? Did/do I understand correctly?

At the time I applied for an EEA Residence Card, my partner had only two payslips. After the second CoA, on 15 September I sent a letter to Liverpool, where the CoAs had been come, including my partner’s four payslips and lots of evidences about why I applied for a visitor visa and didn’t need an EEA family permit to apply for an EEA residence Card. If your answer to my first question is “correct”, then my second question is that did I do the right thing by sending a letter including all the payslips by that time to prove my partner had been exercising her Treaty Rights?

Maybe I have already lost to be able to get a CoA with the right to work by the first condition states “Evidence of relationship with your EEA national sponsor". In my second question I assumed that I met that condition.

I am here again to ask my questions since I will not be able to appeal after the new HO update “No right of appeal against refusal of residence card to EFM”.

Thanks a lot
Its a generic 'boilerplate' letter/email.
It is the second part that applies to you not the first.

You have already noted the original refusal included this:
We will not revisit the terms of your Certificate of Application during the consideration of your case. This means we will not confirm your right to work until your application is decided.
All that is gold does not glitter; Not all those who wander are lost. E&OE.

baranimus
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Posts: 13
Joined: Wed Aug 17, 2016 3:39 pm

Re: COA EFM - arrived as visitor, no right to work?

Post by baranimus » Thu Sep 29, 2016 7:51 am

I got it, thank you so much Noajthan!

Whom reads just this post, not the previous posts, could you please comment on?

I had never applied for an EEA FP before I applied for an EEA (EFM) RC as an unmarried partner while holding a valid visitor
visa, that's why I received a CoA without the right to work and in these circumstances I will not be able to receive a new CoA as well.
As you can see from my timeline, my application is still in progress and It will be decided about at the end of January 2017.

However, I am thinking to change the circumstances.
I requested my passport back and just after receiving it I will be able to go back to my home country, Turkey, without any problems at the airports although being an overstayer.
As soon as I arrive Turkey I will apply for a FP to be able to re-enter to the UK with the same documents I sent to the HO when applying for an EEA (EFM) RC.
Visa processing times show that I will be able to get a FP in 15 days in Turkey. If refused I will re-apply. If I never succeed to get a FP in Turkey, then this fact will let me know
that my RC application will be refused as well, but before my RC application is decided I will be able to know that. I am quite sure that I will get a FP. Then I will come back to the UK.
After arriving to the UK, will I have a chance to have the CoA corrected (with the right to work) since I would have been granted a FP? Also, I will go to Turkey but my girlfriend
won't since she works, I will apply for a FP with a certified copy of her passport. Do you see any illegal/wrong action in my plan? I mean maybe I miss something or
I don't know something. Do you see any possible negative impact of this plan on my RC application?

Thank you so much

Timeline:
Applications [EEA(QP) + EEA(EFM)] posted: 11/07/2016
Received by HO: 12/07/2016
Payments [EEA(QP) + EEA(EFM)] taken: 14/07/2016
Acknowledgement email received EEA(QP): 15/08/2016
Bio letter + CoA (without work) received: 17/08/2016
Biometrics enrolled: 17/08/2016

noajthan
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Location: UK

Re: COA EFM - arrived as visitor, no right to work?

Post by noajthan » Thu Sep 29, 2016 8:58 am

baranimus wrote:I got it, thank you so much Noajthan!

Whom reads just this post, not the previous posts, could you please comment on?

I had never applied for an EEA FP before I applied for an EEA (EFM) RC as an unmarried partner while holding a valid visitor
visa, that's why I received a CoA without the right to work and in these circumstances I will not be able to receive a new CoA as well.
As you can see from my timeline, my application is still in progress and It will be decided about at the end of January 2017.

However, I am thinking to change the circumstances.
I requested my passport back and just after receiving it I will be able to go back to my home country, Turkey, without any problems at the airports although being an overstayer.
As soon as I arrive Turkey I will apply for a FP to be able to re-enter to the UK with the same documents I sent to the HO when applying for an EEA (EFM) RC.
Visa processing times show that I will be able to get a FP in 15 days in Turkey. If refused I will re-apply. If I never succeed to get a FP in Turkey, then this fact will let me know
....
I don't know something. Do you see any possible negative impact of this plan on my RC application?

Thank you so much

...
It should work. Other members have gone abroad without a RC and have come back to UK on a FP.
A FP comes with a right to work for 6 months too.

And as you say, the application may help tease out any issues with the main RC application.
All that is gold does not glitter; Not all those who wander are lost. E&OE.

baranimus
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Posts: 13
Joined: Wed Aug 17, 2016 3:39 pm

Re: COA EFM - arrived as visitor, no right to work?

Post by baranimus » Thu Sep 29, 2016 12:01 pm

noajthan wrote: It should work. Other members have gone abroad without a RC and have come back to UK on a FP.
A FP comes with a right to work for 6 months too.

And as you say, the application may help tease out any issues with the main RC application.
Yes, I have read some of their posts.

Thanks a lot again Noajthan!

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