Query about CSI

[favouritess22]

I have been reading this forum for the last couple of days and decided to post my query regarding CSI

I came to the UK in 2011 with my 15 years old. After a couple of months, I registered with Job centre and started claiming JSA. I also started claiming child benefit and child tax credit.

As I was not able to find a job, I decided to embark on a National Certificate course which provides underpinning knowledge for a vocational training, for one year. During this period, I continued getting child benefit and child tax credit. I also received the NHS tax credit exception certificate.

After completing my course, I again registered with job centre and started claiming JSA. I was on JSA for 6 months, then I had to travel to visit my ailing mother. I got back and again registered with Job Centre.

After a couple of months, I managed to find a job for 16 hours. I worked for more than a year and now I am self- employed, but the earnings are not very high.

My question is – Can I apply for PR as I have been living in the UK for 5 years?
I have been travelling abroad to visit my parents due to their illness almost every year for a month.

I am a lone parent, separated from my husband who hasn't moved to the UK.

It was only through this forum I came to know about the CSI.

I came to settle down in the UK in 2011. I sorted my NI number, bank account, registered with GP. My son started schooling as soon as we arrived. It was after a year I started a course at college.
My son has been in education since then.

Q1 - I was unemployed and then started a course at college. Will I be needing CSI during that period?
Q2- How much should be the minimum earning for a self employed person ? - for PR application

Thanks

[noajthan]

Acquiring PR requires more than residing in UK for 5 years.
How much time have you spent in UK and how much time spent outside UK?

Your PR clock is likely to have been stopped in your early years in UK.
To retain status as a worker during your period of vocational training you would have had to have been employed before the training period.

Your PR clock may have started when you became a worker and then self-employed around a year or so ago.

1) Yes.

2) See HO guidance on qualified persons:
https://www.gov.uk/government/uploads/s ... _clean.pdf
-page 18+ for self employed

EU law does not specify a minimum income for a worker or self-employed person.
UK HO will investigate your self employment further if you don't pass the MET test.

[favouritess22]

Thank you for your reply

I have been exercising treaty rights throughout my 5 years’ period. I have been abroad for a month or two every 2 years.

I wasn’t employed before the training period. I did receive the NHS Tax Credit Exemption Certificate from HMRC for me and my son.

I was employed for 16 hours for more than a year. Will that period too will not be counted?

It’s so disappointing to know that my PR clock starts around from the time I became self- employed.

What about my son? Can he apply for PR? He is 20 years old now and in full-time education.
Does he too need a CSI?
EHICs are for people who are in the UK on a temporary basis. I am considered a resident exercising treaty rights

It’s so confusing ……..

Thanks

[favouritess22]

Thank you for your reply

I have been exercising treaty rights throughout my 5 years’ period. I have been abroad for a month or two every 2 years.

I wasn’t employed before the training period. I did receive the NHS Tax Credit Exemption Certificate from HMRC for me and my son.

I was employed for 16 hours for more than a year. Will that period too will not be counted?

It’s so disappointing to know that my PR clock starts around from the time I became self- employed.

What about my son? Can he apply for PR? He is 20 years old now and in full-time education.
Does he too need a CSI?
EHICs are for people who are in the UK on a temporary basis. I am considered a resident exercising treaty rights

It’s so confusing ……..

Thanks

[noajthan]

Thank you for your reply

I have been exercising treaty rights throughout my 5 years’ period. I have been abroad for a month or two every 2 years.

I wasn’t employed before the training period. I did receive the NHS Tax Credit Exemption Certificate from HMRC for me and my son.

I was employed for 16 hours for more than a year. Will that period too will not be counted?

It’s so disappointing to know that my PR clock starts around from the time I became self- employed.

What about my son? Can he apply for PR? He is 20 years old now and in full-time education.
Does he too need a CSI?
EHICs are for people who are in the UK on a temporary basis. I am considered a resident exercising treaty rights

It’s so confusing ……..

Thanks

You have to exercise treaty rights continuously for 5 years to be considered as exercising treaty rights and acquire PR status.
And you need rock-solid evidence to back your case every step of the way.

That is as one or more of: worker, selfemployed, student, jobseeker or selfsufficient.
You can get up to speed on qualified persons in that linked guidance.

Suggest draw up a timeline of how you have been exercising treaty rights; (time periods; categories).

If son is your dependent then his acquisition of PR depends on you.
If you were a student then he needed to be covered by CSI just as you did for the period you were a student.

[favouritess22]

Thank you so much for your prompt reply

I have all the evidence like – job search evidence, job applications, interview invitations, rejection letters……while on JSA
Wage slips, P60 .. while I was working.

It’s the training period now that is worrying me the most.
I signed off from JSA allowance/benefit and started the course.

I will try to arrange a letter from Social Security from my country, that we were covered during that period as my husband was paying Social Security and that covered for the full family. I don't know if I will be able to arrange that and if that can help.

I will keep you updated

Thanks
Regards

[Petaltop]

It’s the training period now that is worrying me the most.
I signed off from JSA allowance/benefit and started the course.

It's also the length of time you are claiming that you were a jobseeker qualfied person and the amount you earned when you are claiming that you were a worker qualified person. That's why noajthan has said

"Suggest draw up a timeline of how you have been exercising treaty rights; (time periods; categories)."

There are set rules to follow for each type of qualifed person and some can't take UK benefits.

[favouritess22]

Thanks Petaltop

Thanks noajthan

I'll draw up a timeline as suggested.
I'll compile all required evidence and the paperwork

I never knew about the CSI and I thought that I'm an ordinary resident and have right to live.
I have done the Habitual Residence test twice at the job centre and passed.

I have an EHIC from year 2009 when I was came to the UK on holidays.That is supposed to be for a temporary visit.

If for any reason I'm not eligible to apply for the PR before Brexit, what's the next step?

My son should start working by 2018 and hope something will be sorted by then.

[noajthan]

Thanks Petaltop

Thanks noajthan

I'll draw up a timeline as suggested.
I'll compile all required evidence and the paperwork

I never knew about the CSI and I thought that I'm an ordinary resident and have right to live.
I have done the Habitual Residence test twice at the job centre and passed.

I have an EHIC from year 2009 when I was came to the UK on holidays.That is supposed to be for a temporary visit.

If for any reason I'm not eligible to apply for the PR before Brexit, what's the next step?

My son should start working by 2018 and hope something will be sorted by then.

How long was that foreign EHIC valid for?
That, and/or a letter about health cover from your home country, may help you for your period as a student.

Son would have to have been covered too (with his own EHIC and/or home country health cover) if he was your dependent.

Worst case: If you cannot acquire PR, at least apply for a RC as EEA(QP).
That may help with any transitional arrangements to be put in place for citizens still 'in flight' on EU route;
(that is, if there are going to be any such arrangements - all yet TBC and, no doubt, depending on British sense of fair play coming to the fore).

[Petaltop]

How long was that foreign EHIC valid for?
That, and/or a letter about health cover from your home country, may help you for your period as a student.
Son would have to have been covered too (with his own EHIC and/or home country health cover) if he was your dependent.

Except that when she was student, although she correctly stopped taking the jobseeker's benefit, she continued to take other UK benefits.

I decided to embark on a National Certificate course which provides underpinning knowledge for a vocational training, for one year. During this period, I continued getting child benefit and child tax credit. I also received the NHS tax credit exception certificate.

https://www.gov.uk/government/publicati ... nals-eun01

EUN1.4 Can an EEA national claiming benefits still be a qualified person?

An EEA national claiming benefits in the UK would continue to be considered a qualified person if they were:

- A worker in receipt of top-up funds or tax credits for low income
- An EEA national working in the UK who has become temporarily unemployed (due to incapacity or involuntary unemployment) and is claiming public funds. A worker would still be considered temporarily incapacitated for as long as a doctor confirms that they cannot work but have the intention to do so. We would expect this to be for no longer than six months, although there may be cases where this could be extended (for example if we believe the EEA national has a reasonable prospect of returning to work or finding a job).

[noajthan]

OP has had HO guidance on qualified persons linked (above) so that they may inform themselves at leisure (as well as get into the head of the caseworker who will weigh up and assess their case).

Yes, OP is clearly batting on a sticky wicket if not skating on thin ice.
In best traditions of Tarantino a 'worst case' exit plan (or 'out') has been suggested.

Pro tip: get up to speed on PR (and citizenship requirements) before embarking on a free movement adventure rather than at the end when it may be too late.

[Petaltop]

Re your timeline in the UK as a qualified person. Can you answer the following questions.

I came to the UK in 2011 with my 15 years old. I registered with Job centre and started claiming JSA. I also started claiming child benefit and child tax credit.

As I was not able to find a job, I decided to embark on a National Certificate course- for one year. During this period, I continued getting child benefit and child tax credit. I also received the NHS tax credit exception certificate.

After completing my course, I again registered with job centre and started claiming JSA. I was on JSA for 6 months, then I had to travel to visit my ailing mother. I got back and again registered with Job Centre.

After a couple of months, I managed to find a job for 16 hours. I worked for more than a year

What month and year did you find work? Were those 16 hours a week just at the UK's minimum hourly rate?

and now I am self- employed, but the earnings are not very high.

What month and year did you become self employed?

How much do you earn each week from your SE?

[favouritess22]

Thanks everyone

Hi noajthan

Re EHIC, unfortunately 2009 is the expiry, I thought it was the issue date. I can't remember the issue date.
I'll try to arrange a letter from my country re the health cover and will keep you posted.

Hi Petaltop

I started working in July 2014. It was 16 hours work at at the minimum hourly rate.

I became self-employed in November 2015. Initially business was low but has been picking up. I'm targeting £700-£800 per month.

Thanks

[Petaltop]

I started working in July 2014. It was 16 hours work at at the minimum hourly rate.

That doesn't seem to be enough to have be exercising treaty rights as a worker qualified person. They have to meet the UK's MET (Minimum Earning Threshold)to be a worker qualifed person.

I became self-employed in November 2015. Initially business was low but has been picking up. I'm targeting £700-£800 per month.

Self employed need to meet the MET too to be exercsing treaty rights.

I realise that for benefit purposes that a single mother who worked 16 hours a week you could claim more benefit money via Working Tax Credits, but that was for British citizens and those with ILR or PR, not for EU citizens. EU citizens need to earn the MET to be a worker qualifed person. Only a worker qualifed person can claim benefits although there are some limited UK benefits for a jobseeker qualified person but only for a set time (see my quote and link above).

To have a right to reside in the UK under EU treaty rights, you should have followed EU rules. If you don''t follow them, then you are not exercising treaty rights of free movmenet and therefore have no right to reside in the UK or claim benefits.

To start exercising your treaty rights in the UK, you need to meet the MET requiremnt for a Self Employed qualified person.

[Petaltop]

Have a read of the link noajthan gave so that you know how to exercise treaty rights in another country.

Your son might want to get his own CSI so that he can start to be a qualifed person in the UK in his own right.

[Petaltop]

Thanks everyone

Hi noajthan

Re EHIC, unfortunately 2009 is the expiry, I thought it was the issue date. I can't remember the issue date.
I'll try to arrange a letter from my country re the health cover and will keep you posted.

Except that when she was student, although she correctly stopped taking the jobseeker's benefit, she continued to take other UK benefits.

I decided to embark on a National Certificate course which provides underpinning knowledge for a vocational training, for one year. During this period, I continued getting child benefit and child tax credit. I also received the NHS tax credit exception certificate.

https://www.gov.uk/government/publicati ... nals-eun01

EUN1.4 Can an EEA national claiming benefits still be a qualified person?

An EEA national claiming benefits in the UK would continue to be considered a qualified person if they were:

- A worker in receipt of top-up funds or tax credits for low income
- An EEA national working in the UK who has become temporarily unemployed (due to incapacity or involuntary unemployment) and is claiming public funds. A worker would still be considered temporarily incapacitated for as long as a doctor confirms that they cannot work but have the intention to do so. We would expect this to be for no longer than six months, although there may be cases where this could be extended (for example if we believe the EEA national has a reasonable prospect of returning to work or finding a job).

[noajthan]

It's worth noting that failure to 'pass' the MET/PET test does not automatically exclude an applicant as use of MET/PET is not recognised or mandated under EU law.
The cleaner, purer EU law simply speaks of genuine and effective work.

Even HO recognises this, as per the qualified persons doc (linked earlier):

Case law defined by the Court of Justice of the European Union has determined the definition of self-employed person is a community concept, not subject to national definitions.
This means assessing an application from someone on the basis of being self-employed must be non-discriminatory and make sure EEA nationals are not under greater restrictions than those placed upon a British citizens

HMRC has a Primary Earnings Threshold (PET), which is the point at which employees must pay class 1 National Insurance contributions. If an EEA national is earning below PET you must make a further enquiries into whether the activity relied upon is genuine and effective.

[favouritess22]

Thanks for the reply and the guidance.

This is an amazing forum and now I have more idea about the laws.

I need to collect all evidence and paperwork.

I am drawing up a timeline of how I have been exercising treaty rights as suggested.

How much should be the minimum earnings as self-employed to pass the MET/PET tests ?

I have a daughter who has been working in the UK for the last 6 years. She has a good job and working full-time since she graduated.But she doesn't live with us (me and my son). By any chance can she sponsor me ?
She hasn't really bothered to apply for PR.

Thanks

[noajthan]

Thanks for the reply and the guidance.

This is an amazing forum and now I have more idea about the laws.

I need to collect all evidence and paperwork.

I am drawing up a timeline of how I have been exercising treaty rights as suggested.

How much should be the minimum earnings as self-employed to pass the MET/PET tests ?

I have a daughter who has been working in the UK for the last 6 years. She has a good job and working full-time since she graduated.But she doesn't live with us (me and my son). By any chance can she sponsor me ?
She hasn't really bothered to apply for PR.

Thanks

This explains more about the MET and thresholds & etc:
https://www.freemovement.org.uk/using-m ... ne-worker/

Your daughter could only sponsor you if you can show you are financially dependent on her for essential daily needs.
(Assuming she is a Union citizen with PR or who is exercising treaty rights in UK).
It may be a good move for her to obtain confirmation of her PR too because of Brexit.

[favouritess22]

My son is financially depending on me. Since I'm financially tight at the moment, my daughter is supporting her brother and transfers £150 every month in his back account for the past one year.
Can that help in any way ?

I will tell her to apply for PR, she is exercising treaty rights and has been working without any breaks. Her application will be very straightforward.

If she sponsors me, is it the RC I get, or the PR?

Thanks

[noajthan]

My son is financially depending on me. Since I'm financially tight at the moment, my daughter is supporting her brother and transfers £150 every month in his back account for the past one year.
Can that help in any way ?

I will tell her to apply for PR, she is exercising treaty rights and has been working without any breaks. Her application will be very straightforward.

If she sponsors me, is it the RC I get, or the PR?

Thanks

Its not clear your daughter sponsors you even if she may be considered and recognised to be sponsoring brother.

If she is your sponsor it would be to acquire PR if you and she have been in country at same time whilst daughter has been a qualified person. But this is a longshot, it does not appear she is sponsoring you.

[favouritess22]

Yes we have been in the country at same time, but never in the same city. She has been working since 2010.

I can ask her to transfer the money in my account instead for a couple of months and then we apply.

If nothing works , then I will apply for RC

Thanks

[favouritess22]

Hi Noajthan

I have got a letter from the Social Security from my country that I am covered as a beneficiary of my husband. I hope this helps. Also the cover letter states if I had taken any medical treatment, I should provide dates so the expenses can be covered.

The only thing that now I am worried about is 16 hours work

thanks

[noajthan]

Hi Noajthan

I have got a letter from the Social Security from my country that I am covered as a beneficiary of my husband. I hope this helps. Also the cover letter states if I had taken any medical treatment, I should provide dates so the expenses can be covered.

The only thing that now I am worried about is 16 hours work

thanks

if you have foreign health cover that may cover your time as a student/training. The evidence will need to be translated by a professional translator if not in English.

[favouritess22]

Hi Noajthan

Thank you for your reply.

The letter says that I am covered, starts from Law of April 2012 . So basically I am covered throughout till now when the application has been made in this September.

Yes I will get it translator by a professional.

By any chance can this medical health cover be of any help for my 16 hours work ? If yes, then I think I should be apply for PR.
Keeping my fingers crossed

Thanks