Long Waiting Time - Email to Amber Rudd (The Home Secretary)

[ghasemgolabi12]

Hi All,

Like most of you on this thread I have applied for the extension of my Tier 1 Entrepreneur Visa and I have been for interview and I am still waiting after 5 months while this was originally supposed to take 8 weeks !!!

The way we are being treated here is totally unacceptable in my opinion. Apart from investing into the UK economy and paying taxes etc. we have all paid £1200 in cash for our applications for which we have not received any service whatsoever in return. If you call the UKVI they just ask you to wait and if you withdraw your application you will lose your money and your investment ! This is fraud.... This is wrong by any measure and standard.... This is inhumane and I think we should do something for it.

£1200 is salary of a case worker for 2 weeks and there is no way to justify the long time we have been waiting for these extensions.

I don't know how it is for you, but I think most of us need to make business trips and without our passports and our British Visa that's impossible. Not to mention losing our chance for going on a summer holiday...

Of course home office does not care about our summer holidays but at least they should care about our ability to go on business trips so we can generate more tax for the country which is all they want from us. Money Money Money and more money !

I suggest that we all send an email to Amber Rudd who has taken over the home secretary position from Theresa May so maybe this comes to her attention.

Amber Rudd was very much concerned about rights of the European migrants during the Brexit debates so let's hope she has the same passion for non-Europeans and their rights.

This is her email address here :

amber.rudd.mp@parliament.uk

It might make a difference if we all send an email and give it the subject :

"Long Waiting time for Extension of Tier 1 Entrepreneur Visa"

If you like the idea and this is something you would like to do, share your thoughts.

[zimba]

I agree that the issue of long waits has to be raised with the people concerned however please bear in mind that the delays in some of the applications are usually due to the following reasons:

- Tier 1E route has been widely abused by migrants who are not genuine entrepreneurs. MAC report also showed that only a relatively small percentage applied for extensions. Many migrants are found to work illegally or not follow the conditions of their visa
- Every Tier 1E application is unique and has unique circumstances, some are quite complex. So you cannot compare yourself with some other person on the same visa. Requirements are the same but circumstances are quite different for each migrant
- Low value business and people with red flags in their immigration history are more likely to be interviewed, questioned or investigated. It all depends on the risk assessment of the HO on your application and circumstances
- Cuts to the HO staff and clear build up a backlog at the HO in the recent months is also to blame

[ghasemgolabi12]

I agree that the issue of long waits has to be raised with the people concerned however please bear in mind that the delays in some of the applications are usually due to the following reasons:

- Tier 1E route has been widely abused by migrants who are not genuine entrepreneurs. MAC report also showed that only a relatively small percentage applied for extensions. Many migrants are found to work illegally or not follow the conditions of their visa
- Every Tier 1E application is unique and has unique circumstances, some are quite complex. So you cannot compare yourself with some other person on the same visa. Requirements are the same but circumstances are quite different for each migrant
- Low value business and people with red flags in their immigration history are more likely to be interviewed, questioned or investigated. It all depends on the risk assessment of the HO on your application and circumstances
- Cuts to the HO staff and clear build up a backlog at the HO in the recent months is also to blame

Thank you for your comments.

But I think low value or high value, as long as you have followed the procedure and you get the points your visa should be granted. HO could have made it more difficult for fake or useless applicants so they could not score the points.... If they haven't, that's their problem and they think people with genuine businesses and cases should compensate for mistakes of others.

And also cuts to the number of HO staff is very much unfair on us simply because we have definitely paid more than enough to get better service than we are getting now. So that just makes it more unfair that they are charging us but they save the money instead of spending it on providing a better service with recruiting more staff.

And I think as long as we (as customers) keep quiet about this they keep treating us in the same way.

[zimba]

But I think low value or high value, as long as you have followed the procedure and you get the points your visa should be granted. HO could have made it more difficult for bad quality or useless applicants so they could not score the points.... If they haven't, that's their problem and they think people with genuine businesses and cases should compensate for mistakes of others.

Tier 1 Entrepreneurs are subject to genuine entrepreneur test. Simply scoring points is not enough. HO is the only body that determines who is genuine or not and they can do whatever it takes to investigate that. Given the massive abuse, you should expect more delays and investigations.

And also cuts to the number of HO staff is very much unfair on us simply because we have definitely paid more than enough to get better service than we are getting now. So that just makes it more unfair that they are charging us but they save the money instead of spending it on providing a better service with recruiting more staff.And I think as long as we (as customers) keep quiet about this they keep treating us in the same way.

It is nothing personal. You are dealing with a government bureaucratic body that pretty much does not need to answer anyone. It is not a private entity and the service you get from them obviously is not great. I agree these issues have to be raised with the people involved.

[noajthan]

A lot of misunderstandings here.

A visa applicant is not a customer.The applicant is not buying or service nor being delivered a service;
(HO is not a mobile dog-groomer or a house decorator).

A visa is simply a permit or license to remain in a certain country as a guest, for example a guest worker, for a specified period of time.
It is granted on condition of meeting certain requirements and responsibilities, possibly with an element of discretion in the mix.

All of this is governed by published legislation, requirements, guidance.
All of this can be known and understood ahead of time, there should be no surprises on timelines or limits to travel during processing (for example).

Any limitations could be handled creatively, for example by delegating travel to another operative;
(perhaps one of the roles created as per the visa rules - a motive to create high value roles and opportunities instead of minimum wage roles perhaps).

Meet the requirements (and stick to them) - get the visa.
Live with the constraints, rights and responsibilities or do not commit to the visa route.

Takeaway
The Tier 1 visa in particular has been abused over the years and is currently subject to ongoing government review.
It is not valued by government and is not a major contributor to UK plc.
The writing on the wall is clear. Do not kid yourself and expect a red carpet.

... the Tier 1(Entrepreneur) route has a long tail of low quality projects which contribute little or nothing to UK plc. The Migration Advisory Committee (MAC) suggests major reform of this route.

Ref: https://www.gov.uk/government/uploads/s ... eneurs.pdf

So expect changes and expect limitations to reduce the visa pool and to enhance the future calibre of applicants (if the visa class survives at all).

[helpingperson]

ghasemgolabi12

What is your timeline and are you on £50k or £200k?

You said you are waiting since 5 months for decision on your application and yet this is your first entry on the forum unless of course if you have another ID.

[n8net]

fully agree with ghasemgolabi12.

As a fee paying applicant, we expect certain level of service. HO usually have a service standard which they publish and quite clearly this is bad for Tier 1 Ent extension applicants.

The first point would be to collect statistics to back up any claims, and a Freedom of Information request to find what percentage of applicants HO decided within the 8 weeks.

5/6 months for an application, regardless of any checks is simply unacceptable IMHO.

[noajthan]

fully agree with ghasemgolabi12.

As a fee paying applicant, we expect certain level of service. HO usually have a service standard which they publish and quite clearly this is bad for Tier 1 Ent extension applicants.
...

But the fee is not for a service per se; its a contribution to the cost that visa processing imposes on the resources of the country.

And visa processing is done for the safety and wellbeing of the residual public at large as well as for the benefit of the applicant.

(visa fee) increases will allow us to reduce taxpayer contributions towards the border, immigration and citizenship system and ensure that by 2019–2020 the system is self funded by those who use it.

https://www.gov.uk/government/news/new- ... 16-to-2017

No mention of concept of 'service' in the Immigration and Nationality (Fees) Order 2016
http://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukdsi/201 ... /article/3
- its all very functional;
very British, if you will.

Requirement to pay a fee in respect of the exercise of a function in connection with immigration or nationality

3.—(1) The Secretary of State, or a contractor, or any person appointed by, or acting on behalf of the Secretary of State, must charge the fee specified in fees regulations in respect of the exercise of the functions in connection with immigration or nationality that are specified in this Order.

There is lip service to a customer service standard elsewhere on Gov UK site but only for straightforward applications.

[Napoleon77]

I have actually been waiting for 7 months!

I applied in February and had my interview in May.

It is clearly unfair and unacceptable for HO to delay applications for this long. It is even a shame that legally we cannot even complain. Our applications can be delayed for over 12 months and we have no legal rights to complain.

I do not believe there could be any form of justification for the delays. If the process had been abused in the past is that a justification for the delay? Simply reject an application with a valid reason if you believe the applicant is not genuine !!

Arguing that we could delegate other employees to carry out business travels does not solve the problem. Some meetings require our physical presence. We also have our own personal life's to live and this may include travelling with our spouses and kids. Some of our spouses need their dependent Visas to work.

[noajthan]

...

Arguing that we could delegate other employees to carry out business travels does not solve the problem. Some meetings require our physical presence. We also have our own personal life's to live and this may include travelling with our spouses and kids. Some of our spouses need their dependent Visas to work.

That is simply an example of dynamic and proactive entrepreneurial thinking in action - thinking out of the box;
refusing to acknowledge and be defined by the constraints of a 'box';
managing risk;
mitigation.

No business should be building single points of failure into its operation model, (including a 'boss' unable to delegate travel);
that's a recipe for disaster and a hostage to unforseen events such as accident, illness & etc - never mind predictable HO delays.

And summer holidays! what kind of entrepreneur gets lunch let alone summer holidays.

[marantok]

Thanks Zimba.. for pointing to MAC Report. It is very informative.

Thanks Ghasemglobi and all others for creating this thread and supporting the thread.

So far, I have seen only irfanmz has successfully cleared the extension with interview and it took 8-9months . All other interviews outcome are still pending.
It looks like we too have to wait for 8 - 9 months. I understand each application is unique and cannot be generalized but it should not take that long time for the HO to decide an application(with interview)

For a Business meeting we can try the option of sending the alternate resource, but I have been through few threads where one of the applicants relative met with an accident back home, another one had his relative passed away back at home, another case having issues with the university admission. They need us back at home. There is no option of sending someone else in these situation.

Waiting for months and that too indefinitely is very stressfull which we don't deserve.

[Momi]

This dicussion is useless.HO can take as much time as they want.
They didn't listen anyone when we applied for PSW in 2012 and application took more than 6 months to approve even many applicants emailed the mp's.
There are a lot of extension applicants in 2016 because majority of people got visa in 2013.

[ghasemgolabi12]

...

Arguing that we could delegate other employees to carry out business travels does not solve the problem. Some meetings require our physical presence. We also have our own personal life's to live and this may include travelling with our spouses and kids. Some of our spouses need their dependent Visas to work.

That is simply an example of dynamic and proactive entrepreneurial thinking in action - thinking out of the box;
refusing to acknowledge and be defined by the constraints of a 'box';
managing risk;
mitigation.

No business should be building single points of failure into its operation model, (including a 'boss' unable to delegate travel);
that's a recipe for disaster and a hostage to unforseen events such as accident, illness & etc - never mind predictable HO delays.

I'm sorry but this is probably one of the funniest things I have ever heard.

It's not a matter of failure but it's a matter of expansion and unfairness. In any small company anywhere in the world there are certain things that are best done by the owner of the business. Yes Mr. McDonalds has people doing everything for him including purchasing, distribution, sales, etc. and none of them (employees) can ever build a McDonald. In a small company though you need to do certain things yourself. I will never delegate an employee to negotiate certain deals on my behalf purely because my business has its own secrets and tricks while no employee has my knowledge of the business. We are too small to risk losing big deals by sending an employee for negotiations.

Besides, McDonalds employees are the best of the job market and they get paid at least 50,000 (referring to senior employees). So I guess they are competent enough to negotiate and win deals. Small businesses though can not afford either head hunting or such expensive employees so I think your statement does not apply to small businesses at all. But yes once the business is big enough your statement is valid.

And summer holidays! what kind of entrepreneur gets lunch let alone summer holidays.

Oh I thought we have employees to do things for us... What happened !??

As a matter of fact because of the pressure we go through during the year we very much need a week off every year to refresh our mind otherwise suicide and depression is waiting for you down the line my friend... also, a business which can't operate in a way to send you away on a summer holiday for a week out of the 52 weeks of the year worths nothing in my opinion.... We earn money for a reason you know... I don't think my only purpose of living is generating tax for HMRC... Although that seems to be how you feel about it !

[awan905]

We can do this but home office takes about 5 to 9 months for an application.

[noajthan]

Oh I thought we have employees to do things for us... What happened !??

As a matter of fact because of the pressure we go through during the year we very much need a week off every year to refresh our mind otherwise suicide and depression is waiting for you down the line my friend... also, a business which can't operate in a way to send you away on a summer holiday for a week out of the 52 weeks of the year worths nothing in my opinion.... We earn money for a reason you know... I don't think my only purpose of living is generating tax for HMRC... Although that seems to be how you feel about it !

The thrust of your argument to justify some sort of quality of service was originally based on

investing into the UK economy and paying taxes etc

and

... so we can generate more tax for the country which is all they want from us. Money Money Money and more money !

Such small scale businesses, effectively one-man bands, (populated with a couple of low-grade and untrusted employees), and whose main purpose is not then to generate tax revenue for HMRC are hardly likely to make much contribution to UK GDP.

Such operations may simply serve as a pull factor and help stimulate low-calibre migration from Europe - the very type of migration that UK govenment is currently attempting to curtail.

So its fairly obvious such enterprises won't carry much clout with HO. After all that is the department planning reviews and cutbacks in all these areas.

And such businesses won't be permitted to operate at all if visa requirements are not fulfilled.
So it stands to reason that the primary focus of the concerned entrepreneur should be to operate within the parameters (terms and conditions) of the visa.

Entrepreneurship 101: understand the environment you operate in.
Campaigning for the right to a summer holiday and the like will get nowhere. If you want lunch and holidays become an employee.
If someone has so many pull factors and responsibilities back in a home country then clearly they need to be based in home country.

btw - here's nothing wrong with one man bands; I used to operate such an IT services company back in the 80s, (pioneering days before "IT" was even invented). And in IT, even now, nobody gets lunch.

[n8net]

whatever some moderators of this forum may feel, I remain convinced that as Entreprenuers who have invested 50k and 200k (we are employing at least two persons, which means , 2 less form the dolls queue) and 1200 application fee demands a better service than 9 months wait.

at least, we should be frequently updated on the status of the application.

even Asylum applications gets decided in that time, this is simply not acceptable and need to be brought to the attention of the authority concerned.

[noajthan]

whatever some moderators of this forum may feel, I remain convinced that as Entreprenuers who have invested 50k and 200k (we are employing at least two persons, which means , 2 less form the dolls queue) and 1200 application fee demands a better service than 9 months wait.

at least, we should be frequently updated on the status of the application.

even Asylum applications gets decided in that time, this is simply not acceptable and need to be brought to the attention of the authority concerned.

Not convinced such employees come from 'dole queue', more likely straight in from Europe.
Hence T1E may be a net pull factor for knock-on migration rather than alleviating dole queues (and there is not mass unemployment these days anyway).

I for one have not commented on whether the complaints and treatment in this topic are acceptable, rather am observing the landscape.

If its any consolation, T1E applicants are not being over-penalised or treated over harshly in comparison to others; domestic British applicants with non-EEA families are treated in a similar manner.

[n8net]

what are the facts you have to suggest only EU are benefiting from jobs created ?

all of my employees are British native. besides, this is not the point. even if they are EU, we prevent them form re coursing to public money.

comparing us to British native bringing families where the min req. is just 18,500 K is laughable.

Whether Tier 1 Ent is abused or contributes little to UK GDP, is not valid excuse for delaying decisions for genuine Ent .who have invested 50k, 200k by 9 months.

This visa has been created to attract people like us and why make us wait, just because some others are abusing the system.

[noajthan]

what are the facts you have to suggest only EU are benefiting from jobs created ?

all of my employees are British native. besides, this is not the point. even if they are EU, we prevent them form re coursing to public money.

comparing us to British native bringing families where the min req. is just 18,500 K is laughable.

Whether Tier 1 Ent is abused or contributes little to UK GDP, is not valid excuse for delaying decisions for genuine Ent .who have invested 50k, 200k by 9 months.

This visa has been created to attract people like us and why make us wait, just because some others are abusing the system.

Read the forum.
Many members ask questions here about whether their minimum-wage EU employees are truly settled ie employable due to confusion vis a vis PR/settled status.

18K or 200K the treatment from UK HO is even-handed. The point is it does not make a difference to UK gov and HO.
They are not providing a service to either demographic; it is a permit/license system.
Neither 18K nor 200K buys a rubber-stamp and a red carpet with an ECO to carry your bags in for you.

And T1 is clearly under review, there is a reason for that.
Yes, systematic abuse over the years is part of it.
So HO will not be agonising over SLA and QoS to 'customers'.

[n8net]

so you base your arguments on Tier 1 route, based on coupled of posts in this forum and think that is a true reflection of the state of things ?? surely, not ?

also, kindly be advised, not ALL Ent. use this forum.

and surely some one bringing partner on 18k and an investor with 200k makes significant difference to UK economy ?

[noajthan]

so you base your arguments on Tier 1 route, based on coupled of posts in this forum and think that is a true reflection of the state of things ?? surely, not ?

also, kindly be advised, not ALL Ent. use this forum.

and surely some one bringing partner on 18k and an investor with 200k makes significant difference to UK economy ?

With 100,000+ members that is a reasonable approach.

Other members are presumably reporting on their own narrow, self-interested and limited experience eg based on a renewal - that's typically a sample of 1.
eg

I have been for interview and I am still waiting after 5 months

It looks like we too have to wait for 8 - 9 months

We can do this but home office takes about 5 to 9 months for an application.

Takeaway:
applicants are not buying a service they are simply obtaining a permit, like a fishing permit.
Get the permit, fish in the pool.
No permit - expect the bailiffs to be on your case.

[Casa]

so you base your arguments on Tier 1 route, based on coupled of posts in this forum and think that is a true reflection of the state of things ?? surely, not ?

also, kindly be advised, not ALL Ent. use this forum.

and surely some one bringing partner on 18k and an investor with 200k makes significant difference to UK economy ?

If you search the forum you will find that there has been an overwhelming amount of posts from Tier 1 General applicants with tax 'discrepancies' who have been found to have abused the system, resulting in a closure of this route.
Note:
"However, in November 2010, the Home Secretary announced that Tier One would close to new applicants. The decision was taken in the light of Home Office research that found that only 25% of Tier One visa holders in the sample were working in skilled roles. 29% were working in unskilled jobs such as shop assistants and security guards. The position of the remaining 46% was “unclear”. It seemed obvious therefore, that Tier1 was being used by some as a back door to Britain."
and
"Furthermore, the report did not consider, nor the press release mention, the introduction and later suspension of the Tier 1 route after it was found to be subject to extensive abuse"

http://www.migrationwatchuk.org/briefing-paper/337

[n8net]

thanks Casa for the insight.

but nojathan, not all 100,000 are Tier 1 Entr. ??

look, my point is is, as investors with 200k we expect a certain standard which HO has not provided, at least we could have been frequently updated...

think abt all the other investors who could be put-off by this.. come to the country, spend 200k and surrender your passport and your lifestyle indefinitely ! hardly encouraging .. is it ?

also, am I correct in understanding mods think majority of us in this forum are not genuine ?

[Commando]

My situation is different so I think its not good for me to contact any one to get my passport and visa done quickly.

I came in 2009 in Aug on 2 years student, then 2 years on PSW then 3 years on Tier 1 ent.
Total I spent 7 years so far.
I am waiting for my visa now for 3 months so if I get my visa after say like 6 months time then I am in this country for 7.5 years, My extension visa will be issued for 2 years so in total 9.5 years, when I am going to apply for ILR on the basis of Tier 1 ENT it will again take another 6 months min to process so incase if they refuse my ILR for any reason I will be then eligible for ILR on a 10 years basis.
This is not the same case for every one obviously. This is what I think a possibility for me. Obv I can be wrong.

Before applying for my tier 1 ext visa in june 16 I already had a long 2 months holiday so I don’t need another one until feb next year.
Also this is the only visa taking long time other wise my prev visas came with in a month time so for me waiting is good.

Just wanted to share what I think.

[noajthan]

My situation is different so I think its not good for me to contact any one to get my passport and visa done quickly.

I came in 2009 in Aug on 2 years student, then 2 years on PSW then 3 years on Tier 1 ent.
Total I spent 7 years so far.
I am waiting for my visa now for 3 months so if I get my visa after say like 6 months time then I am in this country for 7.5 years, My extension visa will be issued for 2 years so in total 9.5 years, when I am going to apply for ILR on the basis of Tier 1 ENT it will again take another 6 months min to process so incase if they refuse my ILR for any reason I will be then eligible for ILR on a 10 years basis.
This is not the same case for every one obviously. This is what I think a possibility for me. Obv I can be wrong.

Before applying for my tier 1 ext visa in june 16 I already had a long 2 months holiday so I don’t need another one until feb next year.
Also this is the only visa taking long time other wise my prev visas came with in a month time so for me waiting is good.

Just wanted to share what I think.

I rest my case.